Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0 Patch TEST

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Butterkeks
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Butterkeks » 27 Aug 2015, 13:13

Anonter wrote:lol what is everyones problem on this forum?

Another member was making the model which looked pretty good. I am just making my opinion heard.

2pdr over boys anyday.


I've also seen Jim's model and as I am building models myself I can tell you that there's a shitload of work to do before it will work.

At this moment there are no animations and no textures. When he has them, what will probably take several weeks as he also does learning by doing, the model has to be implemented in CoH. As he made it in Blender and not in 3ds max, which is the only studio all those modding tools are working with, we first have to find a way to deal with problem.

When I started to try building models I was also like "Oh well, simply build something in model studio and everything will work itself!"

No.

This requires a shitload of modding tools which need to be setup absolutely perfect, a shitload of work as most of you probably can't even imagine how complicated all this stuff is and how hard it is to build working models.

So I can't speak for others, but my problem is this "There's a guy who started working on it take it ffs!"
It can take up to several months until you got a working model that is really usable and doesn't bug around.

And even if the model would already be ready, then the question "Should it really be in the mod?" remains.
I for myself don't want every army to be similar. The 2pdr would maybe be a cool replacement for the 6pdr, but I'd prefer the Boys with a slight accuracy buff.
That's my opinion. And it seems like this is also the opinion of dev team and many other players. So why should your opinion be the only "right" one and the only one that counts?

Anonter
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Anonter » 27 Aug 2015, 13:25

I know how long it takes to sort these kinda things it wasn't a matter of "oh model is done chuck it into game." I am literally saying if it gets finished i'd like to see the 2pdr over the boys or have it as reward option. Forgive me if I am poor at explaining myself.

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Butterkeks
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Butterkeks » 27 Aug 2015, 13:33

Anonter wrote:I am literally saying if it gets finished i'd like to see the 2pdr over the boys or have it as reward option. Forgive me if I am poor at explaining myself.


Yeah, but that's the point :D
If devs don't want because they want to keep the diversity and the majority of players also don't want it, why should it be in there?^^

Personally I think the reward option would be a cool idea, but it could be hard to balance.
That's something that could be considered and tested when the model will be working ;)

So actually there's no need to "spam" the thread with it before it works.
I hope I expressed myself right this time :)

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Devilfish
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Devilfish » 27 Aug 2015, 14:10

Why don't you just say you simply like the boys? I was obviously in a wrong illusion most ppl find boys inferior to at gun. I would take at gun over boys any day. In my opinion, except in few specific scenarios, at gun is much more efficient. However i still can't agree that boys are better for defensive style of game than at gun? I really don't see how.

Of course there is no model, point is, devs wouldn't implement it in game even if there were 10 beautiful models out there for free.
"Only by admitting what we are can we get what we want"

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Butterkeks
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Butterkeks » 27 Aug 2015, 14:17

Devilfish wrote:Why don't you just say you simply like the boys? I was obviously in a wrong illusion most ppl find boys inferior to at gun. I would take at gun over boys any day. In my opinion, except in few specific scenarios, at gun is much more efficient. However i still can't agree that boys are better for defensive style of game than at gun? I really don't see how.

Of course there is no model, point is, devs wouldn't implement it in game even if there were 10 beautiful models out there for free.


I was referring to his sentence "What is everybodys problem on this forum?"

It sounded like:
"I have a cool idea and if you don't like it, you don't understand my genius!"

But from my point of view we both made our statements and everything is "ok" now.
Of course everybody can express his views, that's the meaning of this forum. I simply stated that I'd prefer the boys because of variety etc. and the devs also don't seem to want it.
Of course there can be discussed about it, again, this is the meaning of a forum.

I really was only reffering to this particular sentence. I didn't want to call him "stupid" or so for bringing in his suggestions and ideas.
Maybe it wasn't quite clear how I meant to say it, english is not my mother tongue :)

Well this and that it seemed to me like he thought the model would be available tomorrow^^ Just wanted to tell y'all how much work it is ;)
Last edited by Butterkeks on 27 Aug 2015, 14:19, edited 2 times in total.

Zetsuboon
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Zetsuboon » 27 Aug 2015, 14:18

@Devilfish
I dont like boys very much but if I could choose between them and a new at-gun I would choose them
They are a better solution against the car "spam" why? cause an at-gun is way to easy to outplay if u dont put it in a good spot and now imagine the worst case would be if u as brit has your inf fighting against the enemy and ur at-gun stays a little behind your inf but now imagine if you have to retreat with ur inf and the enemys inf takes out ur at-gun what now? U have to buy a new one or maybe try to take it again which is very risky.. so now think of the at-boys they can retreat too and they are way faster at the main fight again than an at-gun.
But that would just be the worst case :D

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby SchlagtSieTot » 27 Aug 2015, 14:26

Could a small AT gun be a selective option in the game menu? Then it would replace the BOYS antitank rifle.
Is works with other units.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Zetsuboon » 27 Aug 2015, 14:36

MarKr wrote:When he says they should be different he means that CW simply doesn't have an early AT gun. By more defensive is meant that CW simply has less means for offense. Even their infantry performs better in defense than offense.

But everybody forgets the other important stuff - BOYS can capture points, AT guns cannot, BOYS can get buff from officer's command aura, AT guns cannot. BOYS have better mobility than AT guns.


and thats the point why the brit should stay like they are I mean I also thought about adding an at-gun after all this posts here but Markr just summed up why the brit should stay like they are.. And this adding a 2pdr thing would cause more work for devs and they already do their best (I hope so :lol: ) soo I think we should stop this discussion right here and right now and may start another balanceing issue :D

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Devilfish » 27 Aug 2015, 14:37

Zetsuboon wrote:@Devilfish
I dont like boys very much but if I could choose between them and a new at-gun I would choose them
They are a better solution against the car "spam" why? cause an at-gun is way to easy to outplay if u dont put it in a good spot and now imagine the worst case would be if u as brit has your inf fighting against the enemy and ur at-gun stays a little behind your inf but now imagine if you have to retreat with ur inf and the enemys inf takes out ur at-gun what now? U have to buy a new one or maybe try to take it again which is very risky.. so now think of the at-boys they can retreat too and they are way faster at the main fight again than an at-gun.
But that would just be the worst case :D


I find us at gun very useful against early PE cars, as you said you just need to find good spot to place it.

Anyway everybody has its own preferences and since 2pdr is simply not going to happen i think we can end this discussion here, nothing more to say.
"Only by admitting what we are can we get what we want"

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Zetsuboon » 27 Aug 2015, 14:39

Devilfish wrote:Anyway everybody has its own preferences and since 2pdr is simply not going to happen i think we can end this discussion here, nothing more to say.

+1 and my post was just the worst scenario I could imagine ofcourse are at-guns effective against pe cars so dont get me wrong

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby JimQwilleran » 27 Aug 2015, 14:43

Devilfish wrote:Anyway everybody has its own preferences and since 2pdr is simply not going to happen i think we can end this discussion here, nothing more to say.
Hey, if you have ideas guys, write them in my topic ;).

http://forum.bkmod.net/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=759

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 27 Aug 2015, 18:16

I think Luft doc 88s need to finally have the same arty barrage as the Def doc ones btw.. at least the Luft player would then try to invest his ammo on planes, sd2s plus also the 88s! And not just for sd2s or planes... Which is something that shall make him think more wisely not to waste his ammo for nothing too.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Zetsuboon » 27 Aug 2015, 18:30

Tiger1996 wrote:I think Luft doc 88s need to finally have the same arty barrage as the Def doc ones btw.. at least the Luft player would then try to invest his ammo on planes, sd2s plus also the 88s! And not just for sd2s or planes... Which is something that shall make him think more wisely not to waste his ammo for nothing.


Hm interesting idea but wouldnt it maybe become a big buff to the luftwaffe doc?
I mean I understand u and its a nice idea but I think this would be too much if luft also gets arty 88s even if they have to think then a little more wisely what they do with their money..
I think the hauptsturmführer can call an arty barrage of all 88s on the field to one position right? And I think it should stay like this..
But thats just my opinion

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 27 Aug 2015, 18:34

I forgot to add something really important; that the barrage ability range of both the Luft doc and the Def doc 88s... Should then be significantly decreased due to, or as a result of.. already reducing the basic 88s range in the first place!

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Zetsuboon » 27 Aug 2015, 18:41

Okay that sounds better.. the 88s currently range is 85 right? and how is the range of the actual arty barrage do u know that?

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 27 Aug 2015, 18:44

The basic range of naked 88s in the past was 100.
Emplaced ones had the range of normal paks I think...
Now since both of them is 85..
The arty barrage range of Def doc 88s has to be reduced in order as well and then to be also added to the Luft ones; as far as I know it currently has almost as much range as the 105mm US Inf doc arty Howitzers!

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Zetsuboon » 27 Aug 2015, 18:54

AH ok then the range of the arty barrage should maybe like 100 - 115?

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 27 Aug 2015, 18:55

I think yes, exactly it should...

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Zetsuboon » 27 Aug 2015, 19:00

Ah ok then
+1

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 27 Aug 2015, 19:53

Tiger1996 wrote:I think Luft doc 88s need to finally have the same arty barrage as the Def doc ones btw.. at least the Luft player would then try to invest his ammo on planes, sd2s plus also the 88s! And not just for sd2s or planes... Which is something that shall make him think more wisely not to waste his ammo for nothing too.


yes, in return no nebler for luft and multirole 88 for anti air, anti armor, arty

Also, MUCH more important as the barrage range is the taken damage. If it becomes a deadly howitzer then it should act just as those. But the fact that the naked takes still 50% arty damage while paks and other naked howitzers take full damage from enemie arty, the 88 would become as best naked howitzer. Also instead giving it poor arty range (115 is very poor for arty units) which woulnt enable the 88 to provide necessary arty support (for luft which would rely on it) i would rather make the naked just as vulnerable as other howitzers in return for effective arty support unit. The arty role would become more important for 88 (while still being a back up defense unit creating a save retreat area). That would also rise the question of limit like all howitzers. But i would rather remove limits from howitzers to be honest before i would limit 88´s which importance for luft doc would be increased as arty unit.

I forgot to add something really important; that the barrage ability range of both the Luft doc and the Def doc 88s... Should then be significantly decreased due to, or as a result of.. already reducing the basic 88s range in the first place!


hmm??

The basic range of naked 88s in the past was 100.
Emplaced ones had the range of normal paks I think...
Now since both of them is 85..
The arty barrage range of Def doc 88s has to be reduced in order as well and then to be also added to the Luft ones; as far as I know it currently has almost as much range as the 105mm US Inf doc arty Howitzers!


hhmmmm????

Zetsuboon wrote:AH ok then the range of the arty barrage should maybe like 100 - 115?



why?

The 88 fireing range was significantly higher as those of most 105 howitzers. In fact even more as the Hummel 150 rounds. So max fireing range (for arty use) was very good for 88. The accurate shooting was very decent, the effective fireing range was depending on gun sights and target types.

So it makes sense having 88 with long arty range, but it didnt made sense to have more range as other paks actually.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 27 Aug 2015, 20:09

What is "Hmm" I wonder??!!

Warhawks97 wrote:yes, in return no nebler for luft and multirole 88 for anti air, anti armor, arty

That looks like to be such a really fair kind of a deal. 1 thing to be added for 5 others to be removed then on the other hand???!!!
And how it wouldn't make any sense for 88s not to have a longer range than paks if it's stationary?? But at the same time it's fine for u that they won't shoot air targets anymore which is their main realistic role btw!!

Warhawks97 wrote:But the fact that the naked takes still 50% arty damage while paks and other naked howitzers take full damage from enemie arty, the 88 would become as best naked howitzer. Also instead giving it poor arty range (115 is very poor for arty units) which woulnt enable the 88 to provide necessary arty support (for luft which would rely on it) i would rather make the naked just as vulnerable as other howitzers in return for effective arty support unit. The arty role would become more important for 88 (while still being a back up defense unit creating a save retreat area). That would also rise the question of limit like all howitzers. But i would rather remove limits from howitzers to be honest before i would limit 88´s which importance for luft doc would be increased as arty unit.

Excuse me, what is that mess u are talking about here?!

- "Naked" 88 guns should no longer bounce off tank and arty shells
- "Naked" 88s should now take more damage from artillery fire

Did u read what I suggested?!
The arty barrage ability range itself would be significantly decreased.. but then also added to the Luft 88s! So that the Def doc and the Luft ones won't differ.
Plz don't tell me now that they should remain to have the largest barrage range due to some of ur realistic reasons...

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby JimQwilleran » 27 Aug 2015, 20:20

Tiger1996 wrote:- "Naked" 88 guns should no longer bounce off tank and arty shells
- "Naked" 88s should now take more damage from artillery fire


By the way I want to report that in my game Brits, RE enhanced emplacement 17p bounced 5 panzershercks in the row with 0 damage taken

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby MarKr » 27 Aug 2015, 20:33

Excuse me, what is that mess u are talking about here?!

- "Naked" 88 guns should no longer bounce off tank and arty shells
- "Naked" 88s should now take more damage from artillery fire
Warhawks wants the naked 88s to take full damage from arty, now it is reduced. :roll:

By the way I want to report that in my game Brits, RE enhanced emplacement 17p bounced 5 panzershercks in the row with 0 damage taken
Weird...emplacements no longer receive lowered penetration from the upgrade and Schrecks should penetrate it every time :?
Image

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 27 Aug 2015, 20:58

Tiger. Naked 88 took 25% damage.... now 50%. Its still 50% less than naked howitzers and paks. I read more than only changelog. In fact i know stuff which is not even in changelog. Si probably figured out more than only changelog.

So 88 with normal arty barrage would turn them into best howitzer as it fires cheaper, faster, (more accurate) and taking less damage from arty+ still shooting tanks, airplanes and inf that comes into range. And the build cost just slightly higher as a normal naked howitzer? I also didnt say to reduce it to pak range. I just gave a small view into real world how and what "maximum range, effective range and accurate range" is! Dont take everything so serious.


So from my side range might stay. But IF even luft doc becomes also an howitzer, then naked one should srsly take normal damage as ALL other unemplaced weapons.


And its main role was AA :roll: The arty and Anti tank role was pretty much from same importance. Sometimes the 88 provided first and only arty support as other howitzers had been someitmes not available and since 88 was build in larger numbers.

And even when it cant snipe out tanks from 100 range anymore it doesnt mean its a usless defense weapon. Just know how to use them and where.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 27 Aug 2015, 21:05

I also know a lot more than what is shown here on the change-log btw! Just saying since u did so... :D

No, giving the Luft 88s an arty barrage won't make them anyhow deadlier than the other howitzers.. as it's then going to be only 100 range for both the Def doc and the Luft doc 88s :)


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