Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0 Patch TEST

[Warhawks97]

I also know a lot more than what is shown here on the change-log btw! Just saying since u did so...

No, giving the Luft 88s an arty barrage won't make them anyhow deadlier than the other howitzers.. as it's then going to be only 100 range for both the Def doc and the Luft doc 88s

with "hmmm" i did mean: Whats the point of such close aty Range! I would rather go with neblers as 88 with silly 100 arty barrage range. I would have to build a new one all 100 "range" to have proper ary support. 115 barrage range is just a joke!

Just read completely. i did NOT say "115 range+ more taken damage". I said normal howitzer range in return for 100% taken damage from arty for naked 88. But 50%+normal howitzer range wouldnt be balanced with other howitzers and generally cost/efficency.

So yeah, read pls completely.


Also apparently you didnt know that "increased taken damage" doesnt mean 100% but instead just 50%.

[Krieger Blitzer]

What is the point then of the 95mm Churchill arty barrage ability short range?? And the AVRE??!! Same thing...

Normal howitzers arty barrage range but in return 100% taken damage for naked 88s?? So what about the emplaced ones then? They shall be OP.

[Warhawks97]

What is the point then of the 95mm Churchill arty barrage ability short range?? And the AVRE??!! Same thing...

really soooo clueless? The have Different roles. Luft is much faster in their movements. So a arty unit simply needs long range in such a doc unless it has cromwell speed. And as it is stationary its even more necessary. A stationary arty unit with 115 range.... how to provide arty support *faceplam*

The arty cromwell is fast so it can go as fast as the inf forward and backwards.

RE is advancing slowly which means that the arty churchills and AVRE are deployed directly behind assault forces+ these are hard to penetrate as well like normal churchills. So here the range is ok because of the doctrines style and as the unit is movable.

Normal howitzers arty barrage range but in return 100% taken damage for naked 88s?? So what about the emplaced ones then? They shall be OP.[/quote]


We would have to see. But those cost a way more. Since all units in luft doc have pretty high cost you would have like one emplaced 88, one inf squad and maybe a third unit. So it might keep balanced. + churchills and RE can effectively break down defenses. And if armor doc would get 105 sherman than everything would be ok regarding 88´s.

Also you must see the units arround that. Like inf doc gets 105 emplacment for 450, but then also few inf squads. Luft gets emplaced 88 and needs an higher ammount of res for next units.


If you still dont understand it (or understand game and it dynamics) then i cant help you. It was the easiest explainable way i could provide.


But as for me naked 88 100% taken damage from arty in return for being useable effectively as arty support with good range is favoured. Could increase the luft offense power by decreasing the defense strenght (still would be fairly strong in it).

[Butterkeks]

Tiger. Naked 88 took 25% damage.... now 50%. Its still 50% less than naked howitzers and paks. I read more than only changelog. In fact i know stuff which is not even in changelog. Si probably figured out more than only changelog.

So 88 with normal arty barrage would turn them into best howitzer as it fires cheaper, faster, (more accurate) and taking less damage from arty+ still shooting tanks, airplanes and inf that comes into range. And the build cost just slightly higher as a normal naked howitzer? I also didnt say to reduce it to pak range. I just gave a small view into real world how and what "maximum range, effective range and accurate range" is! Dont take everything so serious.


So from my side range might stay. But IF even luft doc becomes also an howitzer, then naked one should srsly take normal damage as ALL other unemplaced weapons.


And its main role was AA The arty and Anti tank role was pretty much from same importance. Sometimes the 88 provided first and only arty support as other howitzers had been someitmes not available and since 88 was build in larger numbers.

And even when it cant snipe out tanks from 100 range anymore it doesnt mean its a usless defense weapon. Just know how to use them and where.

+1

[Krieger Blitzer]

If you still dont understand it (or understand game and it dynamics) then i cant help you. It was the easiest explainable way i could provide.

I don't even have to discuss anything longer with u btw.. cause I can see u keep talking in such a bastard kind of a way!

And NO, u don't have to convince or explain me how u would like to see the naked 88s being instantly killed with a single arty shell like all the other paks as by taking 100% arty damage through also giving them the same arty barrage range of howitzers...
As that giving them normal howitzers range is just a cover of which u use in order to achieve ur real goal of greatly weakening the 88s HP. AND this won't happen because they are stationary unlike AT guns!!

[Warhawks97]

If you still dont understand it (or understand game and it dynamics) then i cant help you. It was the easiest explainable way i could provide.

I don't even have to discuss anything longer with u btw.. cause I can see u keep talking in such a bastard kind of a way!

And NO, u don't have to convince or explain me how u would like to see the naked 88s being instantly killed with a single arty shell like all the other paks as by taking 100% arty damage through also giving them the same arty barrage range of howitzers...
As that giving them normal howitzers range is just a cover of which u use in order to achieve ur real goal of greatly weakening the 88s HP. AND this won't happen because they are stationary unlike AT guns!!

they are MULTIPURPOSE 400/50 and you have AA and AT/anti inf with 85 range/Howitzer. How would "100% taken damage by arty for naked 88" weaken it excatly?! So yeah.... its stationary and paks not. But paks do NOT kill airplanes or infantry or having such a range or would have arty barrage and they cost a fair increase in cost as well.


Oh... and howitzers cant move as well having almost same cost. Just they dont shoot airplanes, tanks or inf that are coming closer than 85 range. So in case 88 gets arty, it must take same damage from art as howitzers (naked one at least).

[Krieger Blitzer]

So yeah.... its stationary and paks not. But paks do NOT kill airplanes or infantry or having such a range or would have arty barrage and they cost a fair increase in cost as well.


Oh... and howitzers cant move as well having almost same cost. Just they dont shoot airplanes, tanks or inf that are coming closer than 85 range.

Don't compare any 88 versions with paks or howitzers.. as u said... They are totally different in their tasks even!

So in case 88 gets arty, it must take same damage from art as howitzers (naked one at least).

The Def doc 88s do take only 50% (and not 100% like u say it must) arty damage now just like the Luft ones, but still btw they already have arty barrage that is almost as much as a 105mm howitzer in range unlike the Luft 88s.

Apparently 88s won't receive any more taken damage percentage. As u have asked for that before and they increased it only to 50% now... So keep in reality.. they would never get a 100% taken arty damage!

So atm let's deal more logically with it, since they won't get anymore taken damage percentage... Then the Def doc 88s arty barrage range should be decreased as a result of reducing the basic range. Didn't u say they can't have long ranged arty barrage without being easier killed by arty first?
Well, now less ranged arty barrage.. slightly easier to be killed with arty. Only this way we could also give the Luft doc 88s the same thing!!

Just look at it; u have 3 possibilities:-
Very long range arty barrage +100% taken damage. (Which u want)
Short range arty barrage +50% taken damage. (Which I want)
No arty barrage at all +25% taken damage.

Currently it's weirdly mixed I believe.. the Luft doc 88s are "No arty barrage at all +50% taken damage!!!" While the Def ones are "Very long arty barrage +50% taken damage too..." Don't u think now applying the second option for both of them would be just considered as best?

[Warhawks97]

Don't compare any 88 versions with paks or howitzers.. as u said... They are totally different in their tasks even!

Yes, they can do even MUCH more. Yet they are harder to kill... i wonder why.

The Def doc 88s do already take 50% arty damage now just like the Luft ones, but still btw they already have arty barrage that is almost as much as a 105mm howitzer in range unlike the Luft 88s.

and range is OK. Most def doc player go for 105 as early arty and later only grille. They simply dont know that the naked 88 is better as howitzer 105. But it comes later and in late game most prefer inf doc as offense doc. Grens+def training+stgs supported by schrecks and Grille. Grille is often the only used inf doc arty piece while rest is offense doc. And most better players play Terror and Bk as they make more fun. Def is often played by newer players in teams. Many dont like the tec tree set up of def doc.

Apparently 88s won't receive any more taken damage percentage. As u have asked for that before and they hindered it only to 50% now... So keep in reality.. they would never get a 100% taken arty damage!

Yes, God.

Btw, 100% is still as option open. Just wolf was a bit scared to do a great step regarding 88. But 100% damage is still an optional move.

So atm let's deal more logically with it, since they won't get anymore taken damage percentage... Then the Def doc 88s arty barrage range should be decreased as a result of reducing the basic range. Didn't u say they can't have long ranged arty barrage without being easier killed by arty? Only this way we could also give the Luft doc 88s the same thing!!

Nice.... so the 88 still creates camp games+ being pseudo-usless arty piece. Thats what helps Luft doc


Wake up. The game is becoming faster and less campy. One good step was the churchill rework. Others might follow. So the 88 maybe has to be adjusted or it will remain as "camper creater weapon that cant create camper games anymore, thus becoming usless". So i would prefer to adjust 88 rather earlier and finding a new role in changed game dynamics as later.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Honestly I am really glad too see all these new joining forum users recently.. as I could now truly feel the pleasure and the success also of pushing for this new patch myself through publishing the large topic called as "Inspiring for perfection!" on 24 May 2015 upon the 'General_BkMod1' section...

But for now, I recommend to plz stick on v4.88 only and NOT on v4.90Test; until the official release of this patch! Thx everyone

[MarKr]

as I could now truly feel the pleasure and the success also of pushing for this new patch myself through publishing the large topic called as "Inspiring for perfection!" on 24 May 2015 upon the 'General_BkMod1' section...

I probably fail to see what was meant by this sentence

But for now, I recommend to plz stick on v4.88 only and NOT on v4.90Test; until the official release of this patch! Thx everyone

Why? Everyone who plays the test version can discover a bug or something which would help us for sure...

[Krieger Blitzer]

I probably fail to see what was meant by this sentence

I hate ur questions sometimes ^_^

I meant that if u have noticed.. recently just over the past period... A lot of users have been registered to the forums, which is really good! Only on or through this running month from the middle of July to August whenever u manage to monitor it; u will then immediately get to discover that the number actually increased to become 435 members now instead of around 350 before the announcement of this patch which I proudly pushed u all for it by publishing such a topic 'and by also doing some other things' etc as I guess u know

So that's why honestly I am just expressing my happiness now to see that this specific timing I mentioned above currently has the highest ratio ever considering the number of new joining guys since this forum was firstly launched\created until this moment

Why? Everyone who plays the test version can discover a bug or something which would help us for sure...

What "why" dude?
Simply because it's full of bugs like exactly as u surely know it urself too!! While that I think we already tested enough as well.
However that it was only a recommendation anyways ^^

[Butterkeks]

I meant that if u have noticed.. recently just over the past period... A lot of users have been registered to the forums, which is really good! Only on or through this running month from the middle of July to August whenever u manage to monitor it; u will then immediately get to discover that the number actually increased to become 435 members now instead of around 350 before the announcement of this patch which I proudly pushed u all for it by publishing such a topic 'and by also doing some other things' etc as I guess u know

Wtf?! So you really want to tell us, simply because you published your "Inspiring for perfection" topic, we got 80 new members? Omg bro, calm down...

MarKr wrote:
Why? Everyone who plays the test version can discover a bug or something which would help us for sure...


What "why" dude?
Simply because it's full of bugs like exactly as u surely know it urself too!! While that I think we already tested enough as well.
However that it was only a recommendation anyways ^^

This is the 4.9 changelog thread and we should not talk about 4.9? You do realise that this is stupid?^^

Btw, I think Warhawks is right. 115 range for an Arty Barrage? Lol. That's the most useless "Arty" support I've ever seen. And please don't compare it now to AVRE, this is a completely other functionality.
But if it receives the normal Arty barrage range, it simply HAS to receive 100% damage, like every other howitzer too. Why? Because they I could build an 88 as howitzer, and the enemy has nearly no chance to kill it. Attack it with Arty: Only 50% damage taken. Attack it with tanks: Lol it's an 88, dude. Attack it with inf: Let me get my HE rounds...

[JimQwilleran]

I have to be honest with you guys.

When I started playing inf doc after the patch I was full of worries about those bazookas. In my first game I tried to use them as I did before, as rushing solution. But it didnt work. The change forced me to find a new solution. Now I use rangers as "all in unit", and I really like it! My play-style changed a bit, and I really like this change.

As I said, to be honest, after a time, I'd say that no 3rd zooka forced me to play even smarter than before, which gives me more satisfaction. Now I dont even use AT squads.

I like how things look like now. Big +1 for devs. I know that sometimes we all have different minds, Tiger, Hawks, etc. But this time, I have to say: This change was good (BUT, I speak only for myself. I mean that this change fits my style, but others can still feel bad with weaken AT squads). I feel that it added a bit diversity and flexibility (yes!) to the game and allies.

But, I will repeat once again. Every player has his own style. If others are still dissatisfied with no 3rd bazooka (or RL, it's similar question) I understand them. Just 1 word from me: best tactic you can ever learn, is to never stay stiff with your habits. Adapt to situation and turn it to your favor.

~Illa Tzu

PS. No Tiger, it's not your unresistible persuading skill, that convinced me

[Krieger Blitzer]

@Keks;
I said that this new patch announcement has obviously led to see a lot of new joining users in such a very short time.. while I pushed for this patch by publishing that topic also... For this simple reason I am just happy now! That's all and I think I was clear enough.

Did I mention that u shouldn't speak about 490 here on this thread I wonder???
I only said that I recommend the new players to stick on 488 so that they could play without any bugs.

An arty barrage of 100 range would simply help to shoot targets even through structures and pushes or any other terrain obstacles.. like mortars as they hit from above; which is useful enough I believe!!

And NO, they can't receive 100% damage.. specifically since that the RE emplacements are now somehow still able to bounce off Schrecks for some unknown reasons btw!! According to what illa have once reported to us.

[Warhawks97]

I have to be honest with you guys.

As I said, to be honest, after a time, I'd say that no 3rd zooka forced me to play even smarter than before, which gives me more satisfaction. Now I dont even use AT squads.

I like how things look like now. Big +1 for devs. I know that sometimes we all have different minds, Tiger, Hawks, etc. But this time, I have to say: This change was good (BUT, I speak only for myself. I mean that this change fits my style, but others can still feel bad with weaken AT squads). I feel that it added a bit diversity and flexibility (yes!) to the game and allies.

But, I will repeat once again. Every player has his own style. If others are still dissatisfied with no 3rd bazooka (or RL, it's similar question) I understand them. Just 1 word from me: best tactic you can ever learn, is to never stay stiff with your habits. Adapt to situation and turn it to your favor.

I´ve never really used US AT squads so fo my style the M6A3C for all rangers was good thing. Ive been always wasting my res into M6A3C believing that all rangers would get them but it wasnt the case.

As AT to support my inf against vehicles etc i did use M10´s over US AT squads.


The Rangers are also better to use now as they are more capable to kill stuff at ranges up to 35 range effectively. So as "all in one" unit they are better now due to M1 and M6A3C.

[Warhawks97]

@Keks

An arty barrage of 100 range would simply help to shoot targets even through structures and pushes or any other terrain obstacles.. like mortars as they hit from above; which is useful enough I believe!!

And NO, they can't receive 100% damage.. specifically since that the RE emplacements are now somehow still able to bounce off Schrecks for some unknown reasons btw!! According to what illa have once reported to us.

How many 88 should i build then for arty support? I told you luft is fast doc and 88´s are stationary. So i would have to build all few meters a new 88 for some arty support? and when i retreat those get captured or kileld? Thats bs.


The RE thing is a BUG. You just used a bug on RE emplacments to justify stupid thing in naked 88´s. Congrats.

Maybe i should have reported the naked 88 damage taken in bug section, not balance issue as it is actually more a bug than anything else.


Also it now can more effectievly be killed by 105 arty (2 very direct hits instead of 3 hits, wow) but 75 and calli still need to waste lots of ammo before they can kill it. And why should a naked weapon work that way when there is an emplaced version??

Also are you aware that even most tanks do receive more damage from arty as the naked 88?? A tank Iv for example takes 75% damage from 105. Ok it has twice the HP a naked 88 has but i hope you got my point.

So yeah, the fact that the 105 deals more damage against a Tank as against a naked 88 is very odd.


And when me make the 88 being more often used as ranged howitzer support then they need to take damage from enemie arty as howitzers do.

[Krieger Blitzer]

And when me make the 88 being more often used as ranged howitzer support then they need to take damage from enemie arty as howitzers do.

Ya, and this can't happen before we get to make sure that Schrecks won't bounce off sandbagged emplacements anymore... Only in order to balance between both bugs!

If it's not possible to fix the sandbags which I probably believe it won't be as it might be too hard to do so.. then both bugs have to stay exactly like as they are now just alternatively; but then reduced barrage range of 88s as already mentioned and to be also added for Luft ones.
Got what I mean hopefully? Duh, I hope so

[MarKr]

Update:
So from my side these things should be introduced in the next test version:
- Abilities Hold Ground, Binocular and BOYS static mode work as they did before
- Tanks that have both Hulldown and Static Firing position do not kick out Tank commander when one of them is activated
- M15A1 37mm autocannon has removed "attack ground" ability so it can no longer fire through buildings and high obstacles
- BOYS AT rifles (Tommies, Commandos and Bren) has tweaked statistics - it should be more accurate but the further it fires the longer is the delay between shots
- Effects of BOYS static mode tweaked so its effect can be notable
(please check especially the changes around BOYS in-game and report if it is too OP - in such case will be further tuned; it's hard to balance this one :/)
- Stuart Recce's .50cal is now manned by regular Tommy soldier instead of Lieutenant (only visual change, performance unchanged)
- Churchill MK IV now requires CP unlock (shares the 1CP unlock with MK VI; still does not require Commmand tank in the field)
- Revised Axis gun penetration stats against Churchills
- PE scout car should no longer penetrate US Halftracks
- Tiger and KT "Accurate Long Shot" ability should no longer allow a certain bug
Wolf is still working on some stuff so this is not everything the new version will bring.

And guys! Barage ability for Luft 88s is not going to be implemented - or at least not in 4.9.0 patch. So I ask you to cut any further discussion about its received damage from arty, range and actually anything related to this particular thing. We read what you wrote here, we know your oppinions so really no need to talk about it more here or in any other topic.

[Krieger Blitzer]

- Abilities Hold Ground, Binocular and BOYS static mode work as they did before

On 490Test2; will it be still possible to use the captain or the spotter binoculars from inside vehicles by this change? And what about when they are in buildings or Trenches??!!

-Wh Schwimm takes no damage from US rifle AT grenade?? Reported by illa.

-AB 50cal Jeep gets shredded by Scout cars??? Reported by Hawks I think..

-US 37mm AT gun crews toughness? Immortal Tiger tank late version and KT's top turret mounted MG gunners...

Thanks in advance, also appreciated with honest

[JimQwilleran]

Where can I download the version with new changes?

[Krieger Blitzer]

Wolf is still working on some stuff so this is not everything the new version will bring.

Obviously it's not yet ready... Wolf is still working on some more things including the issue of bouncing Schrecks and other handheld AT weapons from sandbagged emplacements!