Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0 Patch TEST

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JimQwilleran
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby JimQwilleran » 16 Aug 2015, 13:59

Bazooka is weaker than panzershreck. Now it was reduced in quantity too. Can I propose the panzershreck to have the same reload time as bazooka? 88mm rocket should take longer or at least the same amount time to load as 60mm rocket.

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Tiger1996
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 16 Aug 2015, 14:05

Bazookas were not reduced in quantity btw... But anyways! Axis AT teams cost more too.

What I want to hint about now is that.. regarding the FJs or the PE inf generally, I guess have noticed that their PanzerSchrecks have longer ranges than all the others somehow. Do they give any bonuses to the rockets range as long as they are elite inf or what??
Last edited by Tiger1996 on 16 Aug 2015, 14:07, edited 1 time in total.

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MarKr
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby MarKr » 16 Aug 2015, 14:06

-Inf doc engineers seem to be able to lay anti tank mines regardless of this upgrade in the WSC.

I will check this.

-US engineers are generally able to use tank traps regardless of any doc chosen!

Intended.

And one more thing, the PE production upgrades seem to be useless in some docs such as the Luft doc I guess. U pay for nothing! It shouldn't be there..
What do you mean "useless"?
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 16 Aug 2015, 14:13

Hawks will tell u now... He knows more about this one.

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Warhawks97
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 16 Aug 2015, 14:21

MarKr wrote:
And one more thing, the PE production upgrades seem to be useless in some docs such as the Luft doc I guess. U pay for nothing! It shouldn't be there..
What do you mean "useless"?


It has no effect.

I Told you guys long time ago about these bugged upgrades in several topics.

There is a TH command and one tank support upgrade which cost 75 fuel. If you develope both at the same time you pay 150 fuel. If you upgrade first one then second is automatically upgraded and you pay just the 75 fuel.

In Luft doc the Panther can be build without support command upgrade. So it has no affect.

i would suggest to make it the way it has been in old versions. These weird "bugs" did occure first duing the 4.7 stage which was a beta version.

1.TH command and Support command upgrade will be independent. Support command upgrade 75 fuel, TH command upgrade 50 fuel.
2. Luft doc keeps the Support command upgrade for 75 fuel in order to unlock Panther which will require it. Luft doc wont have TH command upgrade anymore.
3. TH doc keeps TH command upgrade. Cost reduced from 75 fuel to 50 fuel. The upgrade unlocks then IV/70, Jagdpanther, Nashorn and JT. If Panther G would get added then TH doc gets back the Tank support command upgrade for 75 fuel to unlock the Panther G (Th command upgrade will remain still).
4. SE keeps the TH command unlock (50 fuel) to unlock Nashorn. The Tank support command upgrade could be removed or neccessary to unlock Hummel.


Thats pretty much how it has been iirc.

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MarKr
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby MarKr » 16 Aug 2015, 14:58

Ehm....they reduce build times of all units in those buildings by 25%... so I wouldn't say that they have no efect. Though it is weird that the one from Tank Support makes the one from TH command disappear :?

EDIT:
After taking a closer look the thing is as follows:
You have one upgrade in each building (Tank Support + TH). It does not matter in which building you buy the upgrade, the other one in the other building will disappear. However - no matter in which building you buy the upgrade, it always increases build unit speed in BOTH buildings. So you pay 75 fuel and then both your buildings produce vehicles faster which is quite good deal. Also if you have in any of the buildings a vehicle that requires building upgrade, it does not matter in which building you buy it.
Example: In TH doctrine you build Panzerjäger Command and here the two strongest THs require a "Command Tree Unlock" AND "Production upgrade". Even if I buy the production upgrade in Tank Support Command, it will still unlock the THs in Panzerjäger Command.

Technically speaking yes, if you click on both upgrades in both buildings one right after another then you pay 150fuel but why would you do that if you know that it is enough to only purchase one?
Last edited by MarKr on 16 Aug 2015, 15:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Warhawks97
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 16 Aug 2015, 15:18

MarKr wrote:Ehm....they reduce build times of all units in those buildings by 25%... so I wouldn't say that they have no efect. Though it is weird that the one from Tank Support makes the one from TH command disappear :?



well... these 25% are also not in description.

The US first one for 35 fuel says it increases speed by 25%. what about the 60 fuel one there?


Anyway. Is it possible to make the way i described as it has been and how it was intended? This "linked" thing is weird.


Also it doesnt disappears. When you unlock one the other is also unlcoked. When you unlock support command then TH upgrade is gone and nashorn etc unlocked still.
Its pretty broken thing with these PE upgrades. Originally each building had its own upgrade to unlock certain units in these buildings.

Idk... maybe this glitch occured when the TH doc got reworked. Up to that time there was no more need of support command upgrade as Panthers and Tigers got removed. Maybe they did something wrong with the upgrades at that time and just leaving it that way when they left the 4.7 beta.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Gurkenkilla » 16 Aug 2015, 15:23

I totally agree with Warhawks's suggestions in this point! Can we see them done in this or next patch please?

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby MarKr » 16 Aug 2015, 15:24

I edited my previous post. And according to what I found, there is really no need to change anything - it works fine. Or what specific glitch situations occur?
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 16 Aug 2015, 16:06

Alright, I guess our duty here is to just support and hint or report on anything of which we believe it might be considered somehow as a glitch or so.. but since MarKr knows about it now as he checked it too and said it's fine... Then never mind about it guys!
So ya; I probably agree with that nothing really needs to be changed for this one :)

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Warhawks97
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 16 Aug 2015, 16:28

MarKr wrote:Ehm....they reduce build times of all units in those buildings by 25%... so I wouldn't say that they have no efect. Though it is weird that the one from Tank Support makes the one from TH command disappear :?

EDIT:
After taking a closer look the thing is as follows:
You have one upgrade in each building (Tank Support + TH). It does not matter in which building you buy the upgrade, the other one in the other building will disappear. However - no matter in which building you buy the upgrade, it always increases build unit speed in BOTH buildings. So you pay 75 fuel and then both your buildings produce vehicles faster which is quite good deal. Also if you have in any of the buildings a vehicle that requires building upgrade, it does not matter in which building you buy it.
Example: In TH doctrine you build Panzerjäger Command and here the two strongest THs require a "Command Tree Unlock" AND "Production upgrade". Even if I buy the production upgrade in Tank Support Command, it will still unlock the THs in Panzerjäger Command.

Technically speaking yes, if you click on both upgrades in both buildings one right after another then you pay 150fuel but why would you do that if you know that it is enough to only purchase one?



its what i said. However originally they were two different upgrades. I admit i didnt know about the production speed increase but i knew that one upgrade in one building upgrades both. They just have different names.

And yeah, ive seen players often clicking on many upgrades at the same time, sometimes not knowing what they unlock. For example ive seen many players using the third upkeep reduction upgrade from US althought they used AB doc having not a single tank fielded.
And so i did see guys unlocking both at the same time wasting 75 fuel.


It would be a bit less confusing for players having two differnt unlocks. Besides, in case you consider in future to add a Panther G to TH doc, it could delay/prevent players of fielding Jagdpanther and Panther at the same time (one of your fears you had when adding bigger tanks to TH doc). Thats why in old version these upgrades had been different. Players then had too chose either going more for TH´s or battle tanks. Both tank types are very deadly and so they could get lets say hetzer and tank IV quite easily, but panther G + IV/70 at the same time was rather hard and costly that way

Changing the two upgrade types back to how they had been could solve some confusion but also preparing you better for the future when units get moved/removed etc from buildings/docs.

So a 50 fuel upgrade in TH command that buffs only TH command and a 50-75 fuel upgrade in support command wouldnt be that bad i think. In current doc set up nobody would really need both buildings upgrades anyway. As TH doc they would upgrade only TH command anyway unless they want to build a unit 25% faster in support command. Luftwaffe would need only support command to unlock Panther and SE TH command for nashorn.

So would be really great having a 50 fuel upgrade for TH building that increase production speed here and unlocking the IV/70, Jagdpanther, JT and nashorn. And one 50-75 for support command unlocking Panther(s).

Current panther D doesnt need the production upgrade btw.





But it makes me curious. The WE tank depot upgrade increases prod speed as well? and if, only the heavy tank factory or also the tank factory where tank IV and stugs is build. And what about the 60 fuel upgrade in armor doc? Does it unlock only pershings or also increasing prod speed?

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby MarKr » 16 Aug 2015, 17:09

Tiger1996 wrote:Alright, I guess our duty here is to just support and hint or report on anything of which we believe it might be considered somehow as a glitch or so.. but since MarKr knows about it now as he checked it too and said it's fine... Then never mind about it guys!
So ya; I probably agree with that nothing really needs to be changed for this one :)
Sarcasm? What do you want really? You think that anything you say will be immediately done or what? We already added a lot of stuff just because people wanted it. At this one I can see no real problem.

its what i said.
Yeah, I got it wrong. My bad.
However originally they were two different upgrades.
Yep and now they are the same.
And yeah, ive seen players often clicking on many upgrades at the same time, sometimes not knowing what they unlock. For example ive seen many players using the third upkeep reduction upgrade from US althought they used AB doc having not a single tank fielded.
But isn't that problem of the player? I mean if the upgrade affects vehicles and he has none in the field, he shouldn't have bought the upgrade. If he doesn't know what it does he can ask here or read the describtion (iirc these upgrade describtions state clearly what they do or not?)
And so i did see guys unlocking both at the same time wasting 75 fuel.
I would also say it is their fault to waste resources. If they don't know what the upgrades do. Anyway I guess that we could modify it so that when you click on one upgrade the other disapears so it would not be possible to have both being researched at the same time.
Besides, in case you consider in future to add a Panther G to TH doc, it could delay/prevent players of fielding Jagdpanther and Panther at the same time (one of your fears you had when adding bigger tanks to TH doc). Thats why in old version these upgrades had been different.
It is not planned, so there is no real need for the changing the upgrades to what they were.

Changing the two upgrade types back to how they had been could solve some confusion but also preparing you better for the future when units get moved/removed etc from buildings/docs.
How about just changing the describtions? Wouldn't that prevent confusion too? :D

Current panther D doesnt need the production upgrade btw.
You still need to unlock it in command tree. I wouldn't mind if the Panther also required production upgrade though.... Wolf, what do you think?

The WE tank depot upgrade increases prod speed as well? and if, only the heavy tank factory or also the tank factory where tank IV and stugs is build. And what about the 60 fuel upgrade in armor doc? Does it unlock only pershings or also increasing prod speed?

Heavy Panzer Factory (Panthers, Tigers etc.) Upgrade : This one looks weird. It seems it lowers production time but only to a certain vehicle... In order not to provide any misleading information I will check it more closely and update this post later.
1st Tank depot upgrade: Lowers vehicle production time in tank depot by 25% AND lowers price of some vehicles in Motorpool (will be introduced in the upcoming patch)
2nd Tank depot upgrade: Only enables building Pershings
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Tiger1996
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 16 Aug 2015, 18:00

OMG! :D

Recently u and Wolf are sooo frequently misunderstanding what I say.. I don't know why :P

I srsly didn't mean any kind of sarcasm btw... Like for real, to be honest ^^

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby MarKr » 16 Aug 2015, 18:04

OK, got it wrong. My bad...
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 16 Aug 2015, 18:17

No problem ;) It's fine...

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 16 Aug 2015, 18:29

I would still prefer the "old way". The change would then simply be a fix. The way you gonna do will be a change away from the original. It got usually reported as a bug. Bugs need to be fixed, not causing a change. oO or? ;)

And 60 fuel just to unlock one tank. oO... i dont care, i dont use pershings anyway.... still for 60 fuel there could be "more" oO. I will suggest two things what the 60 fuel upgrade could also do:
1. Maybe further increased production.
2. Maybe HVAP (and HE) rounds upgraded by default when tanks are coming out from factory or from outside the map when replaced by war machinery. This is btw another prob when playing armor doc as "quantity" faction. Alone in order to give HAVP rounds to lets say two shermans and one TD it cost 75 ammo already. Considering that they cant really take on enemie medium armor without, the ammo storage can be eaten up sometimes before even using any special AP rounds. At the other hand it would have little effect on players that mainly play only with call ins and pershings. They would only pay (and spare) one time 25 ammo anyway. But as quantity faction it would help a lot. Also it wouldnt be really unrealistic.

what you think of it? Maybe this 60 fuel upgrade could be then added to AB and inf doc tank depot as well.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby MarKr » 16 Aug 2015, 20:10

I would still prefer the "old way". The change would then simply be a fix. The way you gonna do will be a change away from the original. It got usually reported as a bug. Bugs need to be fixed, not causing a change. oO or? ;)
But as you said - the "old way" was there because in the past TH doc had "tank tree" and "TD tree" and each upgrade was more suitable for each tech tree choice. Now you only have the TDs. The Old TH doc is not gonna come back (at least it is not planned so not any time soon) so returning the upgrades to the state they were in the Old Doc makes little sense.

1. Maybe further increased production.
Well...there already is one upgrade for lowering production time and as Armor doc you also have a command tree unlock for faster production of Shermans...when you combine these two and would combine it with further reduction from this upgrade how long would it take to produce one Sherman? 15 seconds? :D I thint that further reduction is probably not the right way to go in this case.

2. Maybe HVAP (and HE) rounds upgraded by default when tanks are coming out from factory or from outside the map when replaced by war machinery.
This sounds more like command tree unlock than a side-effect of an upgrade...also it would actually save you an incredible amount of ammo (at least in the long run) for only 60fuel...
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 16 Aug 2015, 22:01

MarKr wrote:But as you said - the "old way" was there because in the past TH doc had "tank tree" and "TD tree" and each upgrade was more suitable for each tech tree choice. Now you only have the TDs. The Old TH doc is not gonna come back (at least it is not planned so not any time soon) so returning the upgrades to the state they were in the Old Doc makes little sense.


You can never know 100% sure. You can choose your way or my. Yours is good when you are a clairvoyan. I mean nobody would ever have expected that xali and others will leave their own mod... they did. So if you go my suggested way the result for current BK would be same. It wouldnt have any impact. But IF changes will be made in future (next 100 years) you have less work then. I mean how many things that get now changed had been "not planned" in the past year but which are coming now. So yeah..... And if really nothing will change in the unclear future then everything will be alright with two different upgrades though. If yes, then you can build up on my suggested changes having less work then.

Well...there already is one upgrade for lowering production time and as Armor doc you also have a command tree unlock for faster production of Shermans...when you combine these two and would combine it with further reduction from this upgrade how long would it take to produce one Sherman? 15 seconds? :D I thint that further reduction is probably not the right way to go in this case.


yeah, thought so. I forgot about it.

This sounds more like command tree unlock than a side-effect of an upgrade...also it would actually save you an incredible amount of ammo (at least in the long run) for only 60fuel...


well, sandbags work the same way. For a quantity faction such "long term advantages" are "normal". I think stuff like smoke ability and stickies could work the same way (as long as sticky and smokes keep as extra upgrade). So quantity faction once pay a lot (e.g sandbags) but becoming cost effective with the masses focusing on long term. Axis pay not much for a single unit but therefore more and more the more units they build thus having short term advantage and on long term focusing more on few units. I am talking about fix and variable cost. Fix keep the same and cost are divided over the masses (of units), varibale cost keep always same and increase with the ammount of products (units in this case).

see it as part of that:
[qoute="Warhawks"]I think some things should be better pointed out in which US strenght was based actually.

1. Modern, flexible (100% mechanized) artillery but also highly accurate arty and reworked artillery command tree. What we describe in BK as "VT ability" was orginally developed and used by US.... still theirs is worse and axis have VT even for rocket launchers -.- that feels so off
2. logistic power
3. flexibility due to access to many vehicles which had been cheap but also good (HT´s, trucks etc)
4. Air power
5. M1 Garand. Its simply fact that the ww2 was the war which showed the superiority of automatic weapons for infantry men over those with bolt action. Even germans realized that by starting with stgs and G43. But in game the m1 is everything but good when compared to other rifles.... and that close range advantage thing..... 90% of axis in has stgs, so this advantage is dead as soon as grens arrive (very soon).
6. High servicability of mechanized forces and access to sufficient number of tanks in all divisions.[/quote]

:P


If US could get a special touch, the easiest way would be flexibility (what you do with cheaper vehicles after tank depot upgrade) and the logistics (supply yard, sandbags as fix cost and same could be done here).

It could give US a very special style.

If you think 60 fuel are then too cheap, i wouldnt mind increasing cost to like 80, even 100 fuel.

What you think?

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Terence's Mouth » 17 Aug 2015, 13:23

Hey, do you put any new maps into new patch?If not pls search two good 4vs4 maps or ask shadowilchy if he knows some. At the moment there is nearly only goodwood as playable 4vs4 map.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Butterkeks » 17 Aug 2015, 14:09

I could build one, but I couldn't release it till next year :D
Such a shitload of work...

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 18 Aug 2015, 02:06

Once again i want to beg you to make two individual upgrades in the two PE buildings, each arround 50 fuel expensive.

As long as Support command doesnt unlock anything the cost could be like 25-35. (75 in total, like it is atm for example). If units like Panthers would get unlocked the cost could be adjusted like in old version to 50 or 75.


Another side effect that would make it easier to play PE is that a player doesnt have to spend 75 fuel at once when he needs just one building upgrade. Personally i like less expensive upgrades going step by step. That way high level res managment would become easier and thus again the game dynamics. That way players could spend some res into one cheap upgrade offering some benefits by using others for new units when he needs them.

So when i build only TH command or support (as SE i often have only Support, in TH only TH command) i dont get why i pay for an upgrade in a bulding which i still dont have.


So very very pls. Pretty much every gameplay argument and future arguments do speak for having two upgrades and cost divided. For the player it could become easier, for maybe unexpected future PE changes as well and yeah..... So you may have a harder work now, but in return many other benefits for you and players.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby SteamID_razelazz » 18 Aug 2015, 04:45

Would it all be possible for to implement more game-modes for 4.9.0.0?

See: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=694

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Butterkeks » 19 Aug 2015, 12:39

Wolf wrote:- AT-Boys price reduced to 250 MP


Cost reduction by 20 MP? Yeah... But they still are performing very poor, so what exactly is the meaning of this change?

And please don't say that they should now come earlier, because 20 MP is like... idk 2 seconds? 3 seconds?^^

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 19 Aug 2015, 12:47

I'd better significantly up their accuracy, but together with rate of fire reduction.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.0.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Butterkeks » 19 Aug 2015, 13:16

Sukin-kot (SVT) wrote:I'd better significantly up their accuracy, but together with rate of fire reduction.


Hm not sure about this.
In some earlier versions they had a high accuracy and every shot was a hit. Even with a ROF reduction it could be again a unit that kills every light vehicle with 2 shots.

I'd prefer the ROF and a slightly higher accuracy. Like now, the miss about 90% of shots. If this could be lowered to idk 70% we can look how it works out. If they still are crap then "update" it on the next patch.


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