5.1.8c beta (Panzer Support Doc Released)

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kwok
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5.1.8c beta (Panzer Support Doc Released)

Post by kwok »

Panzer Support (former Tank Hunter doctrine)
Finally, the rework that took so long to set up. You can find out more details on decisions made for this doctrine on this post here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3432&start=75
Capture.PNG

- Reworked unlock tree in TH doctrine
- Teller Mines moved to SE doctrine (unlocked with "HT mine drop" unlock)
- Added Tiger to TH doctrine
- Added King Tiger to TH doctrine
- Added Beobachtungs Panzer IV to TH
- Offmap 105mm barrage (100 ammo)
- Offmap smoke barrage ( 35 ammo)
- Removed Nashorn from TH doctrine
- Assault Grenadiers removed from TH doctrine
- Jagdtiger transformed into a buildable unit (from a call-in)
- Hotchkiss Stuka Rocket upgrade now requires unlock (from building tier)
- Resource swap changed to give 100 Fuel for 100 ammo (from 75 fuel for 125 ammo)
- 20mm vehicles can now call in offmap smoke or mortar barrage (unlock required)
- Renamed Tank Hunter Tactics into Panzer Support Tactics



Heavy/Specialized Tank Viability Updates

We heard a lot of feedback regarding special tanks, their roles, and their counter options. One of the most common complaints received was the viability of the ace units. We hope a couple of buffs to the ace tanks will make them a more desired option on the field. In doing so, however, we want to make sure that doctrines are properly equipped to handle the stronger tanks, specifically we’ve heard Airborne doctrine struggles to keep up with spammed late game tanks. We made some tweaks to better equip Airborne players to handle late game tanks, opening up some more reliable options that will require some skill to use. You can discuss the impact of these changes here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3538
- Tiger, Panther and Pershing Aces now start at Vet2
- Tweaked the MGs on top of tanks to have lower chance to "one-shot" full-HP planes
- Tweaked the US and CW rocket planes effectiveness (a little bit bigger AoE, effectiveness in AoE, overall less damage to infantry to underline its AT role)
- Super Pershing now properly displays a Tank Commander
- Added Accurate Long Range Shot to Panther Ace in BK doctrine (requires Vet3)
- Added "Assault" ability to Panther Ace (same as Panther D)
- Rapid Fire is available immediately for Panther Ace
- Panther Ace received stat buffs just as other Ace units have (small accuracy, reload speed and HP buffs)
- Rocket Air Strike now fires 8 rockets per use (from 6)
- Lowered the minimum damage of Recoilless Rifle to 70 (from 80)
- Lowered the damage of Recoilless Rifle against vehicles and tanks
- Increased the chances of various critical hits of Recoilless Rifle against vehicles and tanks (engine damaged/destroyed, main/secondary weapon destroyed)


50cal changes

After a lot of debate from our end with the community, we have decided on how we attempt to balance the US early to mid game. Hopefully this will add some more variety in game play instead of all US players (regardless of doctrine) always rushing towards 50cal greyhounds that we see in EVERY replay/game. No counter balance was made as we felt that the general nerf was needed. You can discuss the impact of this change here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3410
- .50cal upgrades for Greyhounds, Shermans and Hellcats now require a global upgrade from the Weapon Support Center (100MP 30F)


Airborne Officer Updates and Other Airborne Changes

A couple of comments were made about how the Airborne doctrine didn’t “get the same love” as other doctrines like luft. Additionally, we noticed players really liked the direction we’ve been taking officer units as a whole. So we decided to rework how the Airborne officer squad works, reducing its direct combat effectiveness and buffing its support aspects.
- Removed Phosphorus Grenade from 101st and HQ squad
- Removed Sniper and Engineer from Airborne HQ squad
- Added options to paradrop AB Sniper, Engineers or Medics near AB HQ squad
- At Vet4 AB HQ squad gets an offmap 105mm barrage instead of mortar barrage
- Cost of AB HQ squad lowered to 400MP (from 680MP)
- "Equipment packs" that contain paratrooper weapons (Fallsh, 101st, 82nd etc.) now look like ammo drops (used to have a "fuel drop" model with visible fuel canisters - only a visual change)
- Lowered HP of 101st by 10


Royal Artillery → Canada Updates
We noticed some redundancy in the artillery doctrine, something that was overloaded with units of the same role and thus are never used. As we move to bring doctrines to be more viable in 1v1s scenarios, we swapped out a rarely ever used unit for something that might add more variety on tactics available for the doctrine. You can discuss the impact of changes here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3539
- Removed 95mm Cromwell from Artillery Doctrine
- Added Canadian Sherman Support ability to Artillery doctrine (same as in RE - callin for 2x 76mm Shermans; requires Command Tank; for now remains in RE too)


Blitz Doc Updates

We’ve heard a couple times that the Blitz Doc stormtroops don’t feel as viable as they use to because they come a little too expensive relative to their loadout and enemy forces available at the same time. We want to keep the aggressive and combined arms personality of Blitz doc, so we felt the best way to do that is to make it a bit more cost effective to field units. This will let the doctrine be a little more forgiving to be aggressive with. You can discuss the impact of changes here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3540
- Grenadiers are no longer available for Blitzkrieg doctrine
- Created two types of Stormtrooper squads: "Normal" squad comes with 1x StG44 and 5x Kar98; "Urban Assault Squad" comes with 1x StG44 and 5x MP40
- Blitzkrieg doctrine can now build Stormtrooper squads in Barracks
- Cost of Stormtrooper squads lowered to 360MP (call in squad cost kept at 450MP because it can enter map anywhere through buildings)
- Lowered cost of Suppression Stormtroopers to 475 (from 500MP)
- PIV F2 in Blitzkrieg doctrine now properly captures points with "Blitzkrieg Assault" unlock

Luft Doc Balances
We noticed a lot of the players still use Fallshirmjägers like they were used formerly in the pre-rework patch, units that are instantly strong and elite on drop rather than a scaling unit that gets better over the game. The prices of the paratroopers, as well as some other units the community has identified as too expensive, so that it is a bit more forgiving for players still getting use to the patch. No performance changes were made as we still feel that the potential of the Fallshirmjägers have yet to be recognized by the community. You can discuss impact of the changes here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3541
- Lowered the cost of Fallshirmjägers to 400MP (from 500MP)
- Fallshirmjägers are dropped with a Panzerschreck again
- Lowered the cost of Luftwaffe Pioneers to 300MP (from 360MP)
- Lowered the Wirblewind cost to 400MP 40F (from 500MP 55F)



CW Bug Fixes

- When CW HQ building gets rebuilt it will no longer show US units to be built
- Soldier and Armoured Trucks are now call-in "abilities" instead of "buildable units" this means that while the truck is being called in you can build other units at HQ
- Canadian Infantry is no longer able to equip 3x Bren LMG (remains at 2 Brens as normal Infantry Sections)
- 6 pounder Churchill should no longer be displayed in Armor Truck when RAF is selected


Other Bug Fixes

- Heavy Medic Bunker and Repair Bunker should no longer be transfered to team-mates after being built
- Incendiary mortar shot (Propaganda doctrine's mortar team) can now be unlocked with Stuka Halftrack unlock
Last edited by kwok on 07 Mar 2020, 06:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Walderschmidt
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Re: 5.1.8c beta (Panzer Support Doc Released)

Post by Walderschmidt »

Holy Jesus. I like. I likeeeee

Wald
Kwok is an allied fanboy!

AND SO IS DICKY

AND MARKR IS THE BIGGGEST ALLIED FANBOI OF THEM ALL

Mood
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Re: 5.1.8c beta (Panzer Support Doc Released)

Post by Mood »

Thank you for the update!

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Mantis
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Re: 5.1.8c beta (Panzer Support Doc Released)

Post by Mantis »

Groovy!

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Rubytooth_UA
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Re: 5.1.8c beta (Panzer Support Doc Released)

Post by Rubytooth_UA »

How activate mortars barrage? I have played and get mortars hulftrack but no active icon appear after I have reseached.
Mortars barrage.jpg

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TheUndying
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Re: 5.1.8c beta (Panzer Support Doc Released)

Post by TheUndying »

Those are some massive changes, holy moly. :D

Two things I noticed or would like to have some clarification on.

1. Do the buffs to Panzergrenadiers stack? So if I send them both with light armoured vehicles AND tanks, do both buffs stack or is just one applied? What exactly is buffed?
Does the Hauptsturmführer aura buff stack aswell? Cause that would be insane.
2. Pretty sure it's a bug but my buddy was able to field 3 (!) Jagdtigers last match which I doubt is intentional. :D

Other than that lots of great changes and bug fixes, thanks!

Gurkenkilla
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Re: 5.1.8c beta (Panzer Support Doc Released)

Post by Gurkenkilla »

Flame Tank 38(t) is available in Tank Hunter Building when picking Panzer Support Doc. I think that's a bug.

kwok
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Re: 5.1.8c beta (Panzer Support Doc Released)

Post by kwok »

Rubytooth_UA wrote:How activate mortars barrage? I have played and get mortars hulftrack but no active icon appear after I have reseached.
Mortars barrage.jpg


They are call in abilities by the 20mm armored cars.

TheUndying wrote:Those are some massive changes, holy moly. :D

Two things I noticed or would like to have some clarification on.

1. Do the buffs to Panzergrenadiers stack? So if I send them both with light armoured vehicles AND tanks, do both buffs stack or is just one applied? What exactly is buffed?
Does the Hauptsturmführer aura buff stack aswell? Cause that would be insane.
2. Pretty sure it's a bug but my buddy was able to field 3 (!) Jagdtigers last match which I doubt is intentional. :D

Other than that lots of great changes and bug fixes, thanks!


1. Those are two separate buffs, so they "stack" in the sense that each will apply a different buff. I'm not at home to check the notes and crosix to remember which one does which though... the light vehicles also have an ability that further buffs infantry around them (makes them sprint for combined arms assaults)
2. Eh... it's not intentional but also not unintentional.... There's a lot to the doc that isn't balanced. We would rather start the doc OP and nerf it over time rather than the other way around. People will tend to play OP docs over underpowered, so we can get more analysis this way. If you think there should be a limit to JTs then feel free to propose it in the balance section of the forum. If there is enough discussion aroudn it with the community it with the community and we will likely take it into consideration for the next patch.

Gurkenkilla wrote:Flame Tank 38(t) is available in Tank Hunter Building when picking Panzer Support Doc. I think that's a bug.

It is intentional. Because a lot of the artillery options were made later in this doctrine, we wanted to provide at least an early support unit to the doctrine to help clear static defenses. You can read more about it here viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3432&start=75

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TheUndying
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Re: 5.1.8c beta (Panzer Support Doc Released)

Post by TheUndying »

kwok wrote:1. Those are two separate buffs, so they "stack" in the sense that each will apply a different buff. I'm not at home to check the notes and crosix to remember which one does which though... the light vehicles also have an ability that further buffs infantry around them (makes them sprint for combined arms assaults)
2. Eh... it's not intentional but also not unintentional.... There's a lot to the doc that isn't balanced. We would rather start the doc OP and nerf it over time rather than the other way around. People will tend to play OP docs over underpowered, so we can get more analysis this way. If you think there should be a limit to JTs then feel free to propose it in the balance section of the forum. If there is enough discussion aroudn it with the community it with the community and we will likely take it into consideration for the next patch



Thanks a lot for the reply. :)

I think it would be good for players to know what exactly those buffs do individually, like offensive bonuses vs defensive bonuses and which buff applies to what vehicle type.

Is it intended that Armoured Medic Vehicles have those buffs apply aswell? Since they're no "fighting" vehicle per se.


Regarding the Jagdtiger, honestly one is enough. Same with the King Tiger. Those guys are really hard to get down without massive air support or PIAT spam. Jagdpanthers are limited to 2, so I think 1 Jagdtiger is enough. Just my opinion though as a scrubby PvE player. ;)

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Warhawks97
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Re: 5.1.8c beta (Panzer Support Doc Released)

Post by Warhawks97 »

kwok wrote:Panzer Support (former Tank Hunter doctrine)
Finally, the rework that took so long to set up. You can find out more details on decisions made for this doctrine on this post here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3432&start=75
Capture.PNG
- Reworked unlock tree in TH doctrine
- Teller Mines moved to SE doctrine (unlocked with "HT mine drop" unlock)
- Added Tiger to TH doctrine
- Added King Tiger to TH doctrine
- Added Beobachtungs Panzer IV to TH
- Offmap 105mm barrage (100 ammo)
- Offmap smoke barrage ( 35 ammo)
- Removed Nashorn from TH doctrine
- Assault Grenadiers removed from TH doctrine
- Jagdtiger transformed into a buildable unit (from a call-in)
- Hotchkiss Stuka Rocket upgrade now requires unlock (from building tier)
- Resource swap changed to give 100 Fuel for 100 ammo (from 75 fuel for 125 ammo)
- 20mm vehicles can now call in offmap smoke or mortar barrage (unlock required)
- Renamed Tank Hunter Tactics into Panzer Support Tactics




1.Any reason why you didnt add Panther. We have Panthers in just two docs now of which one is not mainly orientated in tanks.
So i wonder why Panther is currently playing just a small role in axis docs while tigers are in two docs available of which both have a focus on tanks.
Panther should be more of a mainstay in axis docs in my opinion.

2. Any reason why ammo to fuel trade is back on 1:1 ratio? Ammo is more common most of the time and you can thus basically neglect fuel upkeep on tanks. It has literally now drackbacks such as the ammo-MP trade and gives you a boost instantly once unlocked (while ressource buffs from supply yard comming into effect over time slowly).


3. I dont like the removal of assault grens. Just as i dont like the removal of grens from Bk doc.
We have had lots of debates about PE inf and that there could be changes (esspecially on the tactical part). As it seems, you did consider this unit as unneccessary (in this doc), so why you didnt change it? Like you just wasted the option to for example divide PE inf into main line inf and support/tactical squads. I think the assault squad is in particular important in this doc to add the neccessary inf support/attack unit to your tank formations.


4. If i am right, there are actually three unlocks that are dropping costs: Tanks, Vehicles and Inf. Do you intend to create an "elite spam doc"?



5. I dont get at all why tiger and KT are being sperated. Thats the most weird unlock-logic of all time. I think only the stupa in old def doc was more fail.

Gurkenkilla
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Re: 5.1.8c beta (Panzer Support Doc Released)

Post by Gurkenkilla »

kwok wrote:
Gurkenkilla wrote:Flame Tank 38(t) is available in Tank Hunter Building when picking Panzer Support Doc. I think that's a bug.

It is intentional. Because a lot of the artillery options were made later in this doctrine, we wanted to provide at least an early support unit to the doctrine to help clear static defenses. You can read more about it here viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3432&start=75

Ok but it's available in the wrong one of the two buildings and you need 3 Command Points to unlock it which is too much for an early support unit. It should be availalbe in the Tank Support Building without the need of an unlcok.

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MarKr
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Re: 5.1.8c beta (Panzer Support Doc Released)

Post by MarKr »

I forgot to locl thia topic ans it is as alqays running in all directions. It is locked now. If you wanna continue anything you started talking about here, do it in relevant topic or start one if there isn't one already.
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