Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.8.0 Changelog Preview

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Wolf
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.8.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Wolf » 02 Mar 2015, 17:11

I don't agree with you warhawks, maybe I would in the past, but you were a bit wrong on assumptions.

You said somewhere, that StuPa got accuracy reducement and people wanted to reduce its range, but it was otherwise.

Back in 4.7 or 4.6 dunno now, stupa got supposed accuracy decrease, BUT it didn't do anything, because somebody did it wrong (or just did not fix the 100% accuracy), I was one of those who wanted to decrease its accuracy as a player and I again as a player that time said that I don't see any difference. Then I changed its RANGE in 4.8.1.0 to be same as AT guns. As it wasn't enough then in 4.8.2.0 accuracy of these guns were decreased (stupa, scott, stuh). Then in 4.8.6.0 I increased scott range to be 5 less then AT guns (so it doesn't have the range of paks and so even less important then in stupa) and increased StuPa back to 5 more than paks. I think that range is now less important, because of several factors -> it misses, especially moving units, so when before you were most likely dead when you wanted to attack stupa/scott/stuh, now you have pretty good chance to get on the firing range to destroy them. StuPa is supposed to be defense breaker, as it has bonus accuracy against emplacements, I think thats pretty fine. Scott might get that bonus too. Anyways, still much better, then to depend on arty to destroy defences. If we will see that stupa is way too good, it will be reduced again. But currently I don't think its the case.
The main difference between then and now is that Scott now isn't just more expensive sherman and has additional new "role", while not being OP at all and StuPa as pretty expensive unit might be used more again, without being extra OP due to accuracy.

Btw KT also doesn't have standart tank range, but same as Scott now.
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.7.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 02 Mar 2015, 17:38

Agree with Wolf.

About KT, just a thought, i always wanted to somehow improve german super heavies (JT, KT, Elefant), because for my 1000+ pvp games i never seen how this daddies did some good job (ah, no, there is a 1 game in my memory, where my KT got vet.4 but there were so much luck). Because by the time they comes its kinda impossible to use them, such a terrible fire focuse, airstrikes, arty, call in stuff, masses of rifles which will run to suicide just to throw 1 sticky which will be fatality to KT, but i really have no idea how to improve\change them, maybe only KT call in for terror doc for 2000 mp...., or maybe this vehicles are supposed to be only comp bashers :).

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.7.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 02 Mar 2015, 17:43

OK, the reason is to be better vs defenses and to have a new role and to be more attractive, got it. But just as you and me do not like 100% accuracy as it is against the "rules" as we call it and against certain game "parameters" i see the same in ranges.

We have ranges the inf fights against each other, snipers and then tanks/vehicles to which i count stuhs and scotts as well. Ok some mighty vehicles like KT have some bonus range which is OK (also realistic). Those do start engagments very well and the units arround are to support them. And finally the pak ranges (and 88). I see stupas and stuhs etc as defensive breakers just like you do but i dont need to be done that way. Stuhs and stupas and scotts are in my opinion (and in their actual role) support units for the offense. So usually other units should or will start the engagment and stuhs and scotts as rather fragile units should drive in, fight the opposition with a single shot while those is busy with other units and drive back or wait for a new target they can and have to knock out. But they shouldnt be like "arty for free". So players have to ways breaking defenses effectively and depending on game style and tactical skills.

1st:
If they are not so "self- confident" that they can break the enemie defense by skillfull micro managment during the assault and using such units during the offense then they can shoot and break the enemie defenses with artillery from save distant but shooting from save distant cost ammo. Thats one of the "rules".

2nd:
If they dont need to break defenses with arty which cost ammo and if they think they can do the job by cracking enemie def with reccons, the one or other off map arty/motar strike combined with an attack using a little hole and crushing remaining defenses from closer distances very fast then they can use such howitzer vehicles with good punch against the other defensive stuff. Then combination is the key and scotts and stuhs would simply extremly boost the firepower of such attacks but at the other side they wouldnt bomb arround for free. And units like scotts would be build in order to support others mainly boosting an attack instead of how they are used now as "single attack unit" while the rest is pure supportive and defensive stuff to support that single offensive unit.


I did made some experiences in 4.8.5 with stupa in some games and ive got a mixed experience. As single unit they are not worth to build and esspecially when i ran straight for it i lost and failed. In other games when i first created some offensive capabilties and when i already had some grens i used it with great success bashing away every emplacment or weapon crew. The problem is, as i said and what i am observing since ever by typical stupa and stuh users is, that they have lots of defense and when they want to go into offense they just want one unit that makes this job almost alone.... and this is achieved if they are allowed to bomb the enemie all the time for free and breaking one of the "rules" (vehicle combat ranges and "pay if you want to bomb defenses from save distances"). Maybe people should learn that such units are basically pure supportive weapons and that they become more effective when being used along with other offensive units but that would mean to risk a larger part of the army during an assault which us basically a normal risk in every militrary offensive act just players dont want it. They wont controle many units and esspecially not during assault and at best not to risk a unit at all during an attack and if they want to play that way they should use arty for what they need to pay.


I as bk doc player simply like to combine units and to fight in offense and defense only with flexibility. I seldomly use defense and when i go for an assault and going forward i do use all i have (inclduing my 50 mm pak) and i never need or use any stuh to win a game (i use them when games are lost or win just for fun) and i am a lot more effective by not using them. When i would need a stuh i do build a Tank IV D for the job as close range support tank to clean emplacments etc and if i need something to weaken enemie defenses i dont build stuh and build maultier instead or using leader squad off map as couldnt feel could to win a game just by sitting arround a stuh and smashing enemies final defense and leaving him no chance to recover and to hold units in reserve for a well planned counter attack.


edit: @ sukin: Never seen heavy axis tanks successfully winning a game? well.... if you use them as last hope unit alone its true but they also can bring the absolut decision when the game isnt decided yet. Wasnt it even in out last 3 vs 3 when i palyed luft and erich Terror where the KT (combined with Luftwaffe ammo point sabotage) finally made the decision for us as the Hellcats couldnt do much anymore (and when Panthers failed coz of hellcats)?

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.7.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 02 Mar 2015, 19:13

Highly 2 important things to be focused on by now:-

-MarKr; I had about 10 tanks under my command on Duclair as allies US armor doc, one of them was a SP while the rest was consisting of a Jumbo, E8s and a Sherman loaded with HE rounds... The only possible way to take them all out was actually the Luft doc air patrol.. but seriously somehow ALL the planes were too easily shot down only by my base AA turrets! This is a disaster really. Only the mobile or generally the deployed AA units should be too effective however that base turrets should never be able to do such a magical thing anyhow!!!

-Wolf; The whole random weapons dropping issue.. but more specifically, the ridiculous 101st AB squads random grabbing slots! I do clearly agree here with those who said that it's obviously against the general game principles.
6 M18 ATs or 6 Johnson LMGs = pure BS!!!!

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.7.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 02 Mar 2015, 19:21

Tiger1996 wrote:6 M18 ATs = pure BS!!!!

Deal with it:D.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.7.0 Changelog Preview

Postby MarKr » 02 Mar 2015, 19:35

-MarKr; I had about 10 tanks under my command on Duclair as allies US armor doc, one of them was a SP while the rest was consisting of a Jumbo, E8s and a Sherman loaded with HE rounds... The only possible way to take them all out was actually the Luft doc air patrol.. but seriously somehow ALL the planes were too easily shot down only by my base AA turrets! This is a disaster really. Only the mobile or generally the deployed AA units should be too effective however that base turrets should never be able to do such a magical thing anyhow!!!

Yeah, yeah...as I said already, the base AAs are being worked on...This is the third day in a row I'm working on it and it starts to get on my nerves since I only managed to somehow tweak the the base AAs and I still have to do the build AAs and all the vehicles (and there is a shitload of AA capable vehicles - especially in WH Def)...
The quad .50cal emplacement was the most OP of all of the base def AAs - the shot down rate for others was around 60-70% but for quad50 it was more like 95% :?

Anyway a hint in advance for the upcoming patch - try to avoid selecting recons/ strafings/ bombing runs flight paths in the direction of enemy bases - it's not as bad as it used to be, but it is still quite a kill zone for planes (especially in 3vs3 and 4vs when bases are close to each other).
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.7.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 04 Mar 2015, 21:00

"ALL 37mm guns can now fire with 1 man crew left, with decreased accuracy and increased reload time"


increased reload time or decreased? oO

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.7.0 Changelog Preview

Postby MarKr » 04 Mar 2015, 21:43

with decreased accuracy and increased reload time

What's the problem?
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.7.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 04 Mar 2015, 22:06

MarKr wrote:
with decreased accuracy and increased reload time

What's the problem?



sorry, ive read reload speed. my bad, sorry.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.7.0 Changelog Preview

Postby W4rSkuLL » 05 Mar 2015, 13:08

Is there any news about towable guns? Towable 20mm gun? Didnt Ellipirelli work on this?
link: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1zsow ... s?start=21

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.8.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Wolf » 05 Mar 2015, 21:33

W4rSkuLL wrote:Is there any news about towable guns? Towable 20mm gun? Didnt Ellipirelli work on this?
link: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1zsow ... s?start=21

Nope
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.8.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 05 Mar 2015, 22:28

Seriously I am curious to know the reason of jumping to the number '8' after being '7' already??? :D Anyways^^

I can now understand that AB 101st inf squads will not be able to grab more than 3 Johnson LMGs, am I right?? But what about the M18 Recoilless AT rifles then? I guess u know that they can grab 6 of these too!!

Also, what does this mean btw????
- ALL Additional weapons into the "new drop" pool.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.8.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Wolf » 06 Mar 2015, 00:33

Because 7 looked awful in dogtags on Blitzkrieg logo :p ... and because I changed launcher a lot.

101st will be more dependent on their slots, johnson slots were increased to 2. You can buy 2 johnsons max. You can have 2 Johnsons + 1 BAR or 2 BAR + 1 Johnson... or 2 RR and 1 BAR and 1 Johnson etc.
You still can have 6 M18 recoilesses, but it means that you have to drop 3 101st squads and only one will take all packages. That squad should be pretty easy to kill I guess?

Weapons with new drop system will not drop randomly, but after squad is wiped out, like it currently is on AT weapons f.e.
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.8.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 06 Mar 2015, 02:17

Alright then... ^^ That's excellent!! :) Keep it up.. ;)

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.8.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 06 Mar 2015, 08:48

In previous tread you told 2 Bar + 2 Johnson available -_-

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.8.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Wolf » 06 Mar 2015, 12:22

Things change... I thought that Johnson will be 1 slot item, but then decided otherwise.
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.8.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 06 Mar 2015, 12:37

Wolf wrote:Things change... I thought that Johnson will be 1 slot item, but then decided otherwise.



so it means i can have 2 Johnsons and 2 rl in one squad right? Was there no other solution than increasing slot size by simply limiting the upgrades available?


The random weapon drops are solved then? That are really good news.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.8.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 06 Mar 2015, 13:11

Thats very bad, you have to adjust their cost than, cause with 2-3 bars they are eaten by grenadiers and stormtroopers like simple rifles (and i actually can outspam them as terror doc, its not hard to have 6+ grenadiers in late game......nah im kidding, i cant, because nobody play airborne exept few people which i mentioned before). And btw, you again touching the running system, what i extremly dont like. Ab was a kinda pro only doc which is hard to handle, after your changes it will become even more rare in pvps, because 101s without mgs obviously will not able to deal with even basic axis inf.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.8.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 06 Mar 2015, 13:27

Sukin-kot (SVT) wrote:Thats very bad, you have to adjust their cost than, cause with 2-3 bars they are eaten by grenadiers and stormtroopers like simple rifles (and i actually can outspam them as terror doc, its not hard to have 6+ grenadiers in late game......nah im kidding, i cant, because nobody play airborne exept few people which i mentioned before). And btw, you again touching the running system, what i extremly dont like. Ab was a kinda pro only doc which is hard to handle, after your changes it will become even more rare in pvps, because 101s without mgs obviously will not able to deal with even basic axis inf.



From all docs i did play AB is really the hardest to play (i play often with inf doc rangers and rifles, BK stormtoopers and volksgrens, luftwaffe and their inf). But playing the Airborne rangers effectively is a really hard job. Single 101st get shred by volks (esspecially when those have lmg34 they do shred an 101st quite easily on most distances). Heavy assault grens, grens and stormtooper with stgs simply slaughter 101st as if they are rifles what they more or less are. The different is that when i play with inf doc i do get a few more rifle squads or rangers to fight against axis grens etc and i am also able to get some vehicles like m16 as support. With AB when the first 101st are deployed they often face an larger force of grens etc. For a long time you just face a greater number of superior enemie infantry with a small number of inferior infantry. Its really a hard job. Its even harder when doing so on enemie territory where i cant buy johnsons near AB HQ. Would be nice if all weapons for AB would be purchasable near AB HQ or friendly territory.

And pls.... add observation ability for this AB observation squad....

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.8.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 06 Mar 2015, 14:05

@Sukin; I totally disagree... But it's surely a fact that only few players are playing with the AB using such a method of picking up 6 Johnsons and etc; do u know why?! Simply because absolutely no one ever thought it's possible to do so! However that u and the other guys u keep mentioning about.. are the only guys who always knew about it.
But do u consider this as a professional playing? I would consider this as just a unique playing style as that it's not a common method which is actually used by only few players as I said!

All the current AB inf squads prices are now fine while that definitely I am strongly against buffing them anyhow as by whatever reducing their cost or for anything else to be done.
They do already have freaky powerful air strikes that are capable of wiping out all enemy tanks and inf units even....

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.8.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Wake » 06 Mar 2015, 14:20

Before I read of sukin and Warhawk's Airborne tactics, I never ever used Airborne doc.

Why?

Because it was terrible. The first time I used airborne a long time ago, I realized that they are incredibly bad and ridiculously overpriced. Even after hearing what sukin said about the 6 MG's, I was skeptical until I saw his replays and started doing it myself. Then I found out, hey, airborne with 6 MG's are actually pretty good.

But that was it. That is the only way to play airborne doc. Without 6 MG's, your 450 MP 101st are going to get slaughtered by 265 MP volks and 400 MP grens. Even a bike will make short work of 101st if in an open field. They honestly are just super expensive riflemen with worse weapons until they get MG's.

And this hasn't just been a recent thing. Airborne have always been the worst allied doc to choose. I remember a while ago, to even get the airborne, you had to pay 1000 MP for 2 squads at a time.

101st only become effective once you get 6 MG's. And if you're going to use the 82nd, you would be better off playing infantry doc and spamming thompson rangers and CQB squads.
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.8.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 06 Mar 2015, 14:35

Ya, sure! Grabbing 6 of these things makes them somehow unbeatable or I mean 'unbelievably pretty good and super effective' specifically against the Terror doctrine as that this doctrine actually suffers a lot against those planes because of lacking no Ostwinds or any good AAs available there.. Wolf just did it right with this change...

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.8.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 06 Mar 2015, 14:39

@Tiger
Shut up man) You never played airborne, thats why your words are nothing according to this topic.

And 1 more time, axis have lots of super equipted squads (fully equipt luft units for free, grens with 5 stg + mg42 as terror, storms with 5 mp44 + mg 34, storm grenadiers can carry for ex 2 G43 + 2 mp 44 + Mg42, somebody ever heard about ss squad? - 2 Mg 42, sniper, 3 mp44 and 2 g43 huh, probably the greates damager unit, and its not even doc specific (cost 100 mp more than rifles like 101s). Thats why i i feel free to say FUCK OFF, to all who claims that caring 6 weapons for 101s is something not normal (espesialy if we ll take in atention how weak and cost innefective they are + add 280 ammo for equiping each squad.

@Wolf
Ill just give you a simple fact, currently there are only 4 players in community who plays airborne more or less often and good, after patch this number will be reduced to 1-0, thats why decision with limiting is obviously stupid.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.8.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 06 Mar 2015, 14:45

Tiger1996 wrote:Ya, sure! Grabbing 6 of these things makes them somehow unbeatable or I mean 'unbelievably pretty good and super effective' specifically against the Terror doctrine as that this doctrine actually suffers a lot against those planes because of lacking no Ostwinds or any good AAs available there.. Wolf just did it right with this change...

Dont be stupid tiger, if you trying to rush them with storms in open field without cover ( like you did in our last 1v1) that doesnt mean that they are unbeatable, tryed officer? tryed terror fire nades? But actually no sense in discusing this question with you, because you never played ab and obviusly cant give them an objective opinion, im pretty sure that if you ll try to pick up AB in 3v3 with good players ( not newbies with 50 battles which you like to play with so much) you ll get your ass kicked by volks and nebels only.

For conclusion:
Dont touch AB doc at all, its fine like it is, good doc which requires high skill to be effective. If you think that they are too good, do what i said about luft, buff their vet steps and reg. 5 a bit, so luft will be able to deal with ab in late game, all will be glad!

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.8.0 Changelog Preview

Postby MarKr » 06 Mar 2015, 14:54

And btw, you again touching the running system, what i extremly dont like.

As said before, equiping 101st with more than 2 Johnsons was onlypossible if you qeued them, if built one at a time you could only get two. This means that more than two Johnsons was a bug and playing it that way is nothing more than a bug exploit which can hardly be called "running system".

Also guys, you haven't even tried yet (since the new patch isn't out yet) the new M1 Carbine and you all already predict how f*cked up the doc will be. Is everyone here gifted with seeing the future? I recall Warhawks constantly ranting about "OMG +5 range to Stupa??? Are you kidding? EVERYONE will ONLY play WH def doc now, since this will start the "attack and die or don't attack and die" again" - Is that the case now? No, it isn't.

And one more time - if the ENTIRE doctrine stands only on its most basic infantry being able to equip weapons for 280Munition then something is wrong not with the 101st but the doctrine in general.
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