Re: 5.1.8. beta (Doctrine rework, update 1)
Posted: 26 May 2019, 18:49
Btw, grenades thrown from the buldings, still can be tossed out of their ranges with a pinpoint accuracy
Official Blitzkrieg Mod Forum
Black Panther wrote:Also, grenadiers that cames from blitz call-in has too fast replenishment rate
MarKr wrote:Command bonuses of command tank no longer work on StuPa/StuH because having extra range for these units (they already had more than 60 by default) was getting insane.
Black Panther wrote:To get same +10 range, you need to go for Pershing, will be it easier to get heavy tanks on pair with Blitz one? No.
Black Panther wrote:WM has heavy tanks in every doctrine and would have in future. If they had a recon bonus, that would mean heavy tanks that already has +5 range, would get +10 range even more against every doctrine that they are facing
Black Panther wrote:Slugger in Infantry doctrine already costs too much and have standarized armor on pair with Sherman. It means that cost of almost-like a Pershing tank could be wasted by usual Panzer vehicles and pak36.
Black Panther wrote:Also ammo upkeeps solves the problem of arty spamming games and it really helps the game to be cured
kwok wrote:This will apply for both blitz doc AND armor doc btw...
kwok wrote:If anything, Sherman 76s might ending up costing more CP as well.
kwok wrote:Having the maultier be behind an unlock would be a net nerf and make armor doc a very easy counter to blitz doc.
kwok wrote:The TC arty is meant to be able to take out front line emplacements that have a range of 80. Not sure how you're going to do that if you have to drive up to the defensive line. It is meant to be a tactical tool. If it's too "click to kill" then its cost can probably be reassessed as well as its CP availability.
#2, Actually I knew people who abused and reported it. The recon ability became a really obvious always use ability because It gave a lot of risk free shots. The other buffs don't do enough to impact a pure engagment, but the range buff instantly lets you take a first shot without needing to flank or execute any tactic at all. This will apply for both blitz doc AND armor doc btw...
#3, The panzer 4 is delayed and will continue to be an option as other tanks have been delayed as well. Its current performance as a unit far surpassed its availability relative to other units and became a cheese rush unit rather than a backbone tank. However, may be a cost reduction on the tank, still talking through that. If you want to rush for a cheap Panther, you may but the tradeoff is the fuel you lose out on in the early/mid game. I really recommend NOT rushing the panther, I've tried a few times and it is a struggle to survive to the late game.
If anything, Sherman 76s might ending up costing more CP as well. The game today has been a straight rush to the biggest tank, it makes many units obsolete.
The CP tree isn't meant to be a tech tree, that's what tiering is for. The CP tree is a strategic decision making tree. The pzer 4 is not meant to be a meta, always worth building safe option against every doctrine. You need to think how much you want to start catering your army composition choices to the situation. The pzer 4 is an all around good tank, so it should require significant tradeoffs to have it.
My recommendation for adapting to the new blitz doc is to really assess whether you want a tank based army against your opponent. If your opponent is rushing tank destroyers then maybe don't go down the tank path expecting to win. Make 75pak and push with stormtroopers instead. If your opponent is camping, maybe choose the bottom assault path instead specialized in taking out soft targets and emplacements. If your opponent is going for pure well rounded tanks like shermans, jumbos, pershing path, then THIS is when you start investing on units like the panzer 4 and panther and the upgrades around them.
#4, again the AP rounds are to help against late game armor doc. Having the maultier be behind an unlock would be a net nerf and make armor doc a very easy counter to blitz doc. As we move more docs towards having 1v1, counter picking doctrines isn't meant to be a viable option. That's literally the opposite of "well-rounded and for 1v1" if your doctrine choice decides the game.
#5, same as above, unless you think inf doc as an offensive option against tigers and panthers the jackson will stay in inf doc and probably be available in AB.
-Agreed on the AT squad, we already started looking again at the unit and how it fits with the rest of the faction.
-The TC arty is meant to be able to take out front line emplacements that have a range of 80. Not sure how you're going to do that if you have to drive up to the defensive line. It is meant to be a tactical tool. If it's too "click to kill" then its cost can probably be reassessed as well as its CP availability.
Please keep in mind the "+10 firing range" works with all tanks, not just heavy tanks.. this means you can have 3 Shermans and Command CAR with "Recon Bonus" and eventually out-range a Tiger1 tank for example.. because the Tiger1 would have 65 range but your Shermans will have 70 range.
Even deadlier when used with Jacksons, etc.
Tiger1996 wrote:I'm not saying that B1 Jackson would be OP in infantry doc.. but I just think it's not needed and could be moved to AB doc instead.
While maybe increasing the limit of 76 Jumbo on the other hand, from a limit of 1 to a limit of 2 Jumbos per time.. just my thought.
Ammo upkeep is to prevent arty spam.. understood, but then apparently it creates another serious issue... Which is heavy camping.
if this means that US Command CAR "Recon Bonus" is also going to be changed accordingly and no longer provide +10 firing range, then fair enough.
Well, if the 76 Shermans would require more CPs as you say.. only then it would be fine.
Despite I'm afraid this would only make the game so boring...
No, think about it again.
Having the Maultier as unlock for 1 CP as I suggested, would only benefit Blitz doc overall...
Because this way you could also have Stuka airstrike earlier available after only 4 direct CPs.. and Leig.18 no longer replacing the 50mm Pak.
The range of 90 is fine, IF you are planning to increase the price of the ability...
Currently it costs only 85 ammo, while I would suggest that it costs around 120 or 130 ammo.
kwok wrote:The reason why the stuka is available so late is because it is a click to kill ability which is meant to be used tactically, not as a predominate method. It's not meant to be used the same way as say the artillery unlock for US that will have units immediately one shotted consistently if they dont have indirect support.
kwok wrote:Also, after looking at the 50cal stats in corsix, I don't see how they could be "too strong". On average, you'd need like 5-8 50cals blobbed together shooting at an incoming plane to bring it down.
Please, provide replays not videos. Replays allow us to inspect what is happening on the entire map (e.g. if it is really only the top MG shooting at a plane or if it gets shot at from other units too etc.) videos in these cases provide very limited view on the situation and "trust me, I checked" proved to be unreliable assurance in the past.Tiger1996 wrote:I can provide some scenes later.
So it means that the ability would have its uses but the game did not last long enough to use the Stuka.Blitz either won or lost by the time the stuka would've even been useful.
Viper wrote:the current blitzkrieg doctrine has weak artillery. and the new blitzkrieg doctrine artillery is only weaker. the doctrine capability to deal with fortifications.....is very weak compared to what it was before.
when you face heavy defense, what do you do with current doctrine? you just get 2 stuh and attack the fortifications from safe distance.
but with the new doctrine....what do you do? stuh and stupa cant do that anymore....and you need to pay more ammo and also upkeep. so, you get weaker stuh and stupa....and less ammo supply too or you wait 5 command point for the stuka....which will die to anti air anyway.
the new blitzkrieg doctrine is also weaker with tanks. no tigers with cool abilities and high hp, no panzer.iv spam and weaker offmap support........for the exchange of what? nothing.
im sorry.....but if you all fail to see, the new doctrines are very boring and much nerfed. armor doctrine is also a lot more boring and toooooo many command points to unlock good tanks.....so, the new armor doctrine is "armor doctrine, but without tanks" ........
Viper wrote:blitz doctrine was never about camping and waiting for panther, it is always about aggressive offmap support spam with many panzer.iv and stugs. stuh was only needed when your opponent decide to go full camping. so the stuh was the answer to camping.
but now......what does the new doctrine has to offer? only more camping.....just this time on both sides. you solved nothing.....the camping is only heavier.
Because you basically ask for every strong unit in US and WM to be available a lot earlier.Viper wrote:panzer.iv need to be available after not more than 2 points. pershing need to be available after not more than 7 points. not telling you they should be available after only 5 points as they used to be....but max 7 points. because 9 command points for pershing is suuuuper boring....and pershing ace can be 9 points but not 11 points!!!!!!! 75 jumbo should not be more than 4 points....not 2 points as in the past, but for sure not 6 points either!!!!!!! and tigers in the future should not be more than 3 points. and 7 points for the ace tiger
MarKr wrote:but we cannot change something back every time someone comes and says "this sucks, revert it". Sorry.
Viper wrote:pershing need to be available after not more than 7 points. not telling you they should be available after only 5 points as they used to be....but max 7 points. because 9 command points for pershing is suuuuper boring....and pershing ace can be 9 points but not 11 points!!!!!!! 75 jumbo should not be more than 4 points....not 2 points as in the past, but for sure not 6 points either!!!!!!!
The New BK Champion wrote:it might be more balanced, "polished" whatever you think that means, but your ideas are just boring.
Personally, i honestly can't see how delaying the Pershing at 9CPs for example would force players to look for any other alternatives at disposal.. as I think their only alternative otherwise, could be just quitting the game at this point.