Lol, don't listen to Sukin. If there is some kind of OP unit or ability that allows stuff which are supposedly limited by the game, he uses it - using snipers in kangaroo (total bullshit), holding your AT squad and using ground fire to exceed their original range (total bullshit), using AT emplacements manual fire to exceed their range (total bullshit), driving like a mad and killing every armored vehicle on sight (total bullshit), using ground fire with tanks to kill something behind obstacle (total bullshit, what would you do in coh 2 when you donth ave sight behind houses?)... What makes you to think you should have these privileges over casual players, because it is just you and your russian friends that are using them!
According to stupa, it must have range buff, otherwise it is useless. I don't know how Wolf killed 2 squads with 3 shots, normally I kill 2 men with 1 shot and this thing reloads slow. Maybe more firepower but slower reload would gives it some shine again . And wolf why you want so badly grenadiers to have stg44? This causes a huge disbalance in game - def bonus, unkillable with devastating firepower, BK does not bother to unlock sturm grenadiers anymore they just go for tanks... Stg44 addition was suitable only for terror, that's my point of view.
Alright, again I repeat for u not to forget... If both the SP and the PAce are not delayed by at least 1 CP or even 2, obviously this will certainly have a very bad or disastrous affect on the game balance specifically by seeing this huge buff for the US faction generally! I guess I have u well heard and notified about this.. NOTE that the SP already is requiring only 8 direct CPs to be available while the Ace Tiger is requiring 9 CPs!! On team-fights some players are currently sometimes able to have the SP as soon as any Tiger tank is yet deployed into the battle ground btw.
Costs of Terror doctrine Pz4s also must get a reduction since the Tiger is now even more expensive there.
Re-managing the fuel upkeep costs for both the Tiger and the Pershing tanks is something now very important as well to be considered about or paying attention on.
However that it's good to know and appreciated too that the Hellcats are now available for the Airborne doctrine.
And here on this point I strongly agree with Yummy; I believe that the ground fire ability should be actually removed from all units of the game or just as a specific from all the remaining AA vehicles!!! Why to only remove that from the Ostwind??
If you fixed the fuel issues on US armor and increasing cost of Tigers i would also like to see some CP swapping in armor doc. Take one CP away from the Field repair/war machinery maybe and add one to SP simply do underline the purpose as quantity armor doc. I think it wouldnt hurt. Armor doc should simply not be supposed to field SP´s as fast as axis get Panthers. Also can you say if any upkeep stuff we suggested will be done? Or are there plans at all (except the marder)?
Also ladies and gents.... what the heck is the prob with Stupa?
Why Stupa has little sense? Answer: Because at the time this thing comes enemie defense got either crushed already by wespes, neblers and walking stukas OR you lost already and enemies hunts stupas with arty, achilles etc... at that moment stormartillery units should not be the first choice but thats probably what players want!
My stupa failed only in two situations: 1 vs 1 vs crocc driving into its gun range but still survived 3 hits of it. The second was an arty strike when i was busy giving orders to inf somewhere. BUT in every other situation it worked well.
Head on attacks on US pak emplacment: no problem. Oneshotting some tanks: no prob. Killing entire inf squads which were on srpint: no prob. Oneshot emplacments (except base defense for some reason: no prob.
Sure it failes time by time but so do all units.
Also although i had like 3 or more bunkers i was always able to support stupa with grens+stg and schreck and AT squad. Beside that in late game when my defense of bunkers stood i could build grens as i am used to with rangers in US inf doc! Def training and later vets also allows creazy head on attacks on just everything.
If there is really a pak that bothers your stupa then you have god damn howitzers with long range abiility and VT, 88 arty and maybe even off map 280 mm rocket strike! so whats the damn prob with "weak" stupa? just because it dies when running into 17 pounders?
The only mistake is that there is just no defense the stupa has to crush. Defenses get usually already overruned by inf or smashed by nebler anyway! THIS is why stupa is "usless" coz there is already lots of crazy stuff that fills his role. As Emplacment breaker, inf support tanks, inf killer and vehicle smasher this unit is freaking awesome! Its just not supposed to turn entire games like in 4.6 or being a one unit army (which it still is basically, it needs only grens/schrecks or IV/A as support and not more). Also many forget that the def doc pios repair this thing fast and which smash all at squads with mp40 that try to flank it. I think this doc has currently lots of crazy stuff like grille, nice tankbusters, heavy elite rolling fortress, nice grenadiers, bunkers, 88, nice 105 and 88 arty, off map arty, def training for grens and pio buff, great AA units that smash inf as well. I really need to ask IF def doc needs an assault tank that outranges all enemie defenses and even IF def doc is in a urgent need of such an Heavy assault tank!
I believe that the ground fire ability should be actually removed from all units of the game or just as a specific from all the remaining AA vehicles!!!
I thought we removed attack ground from all AAs. Is there some AA vehicle where we forgot about it?
Maybe remove the MP44's from the grenadiers in defensive doc. The MP44 is an assault weapon. If a def doc player puts all his grenadiers inside bunkers and trenches, they would probably be better off with k98's and an lmg 42 anyway. It would reinforce the idea that def doc should be defending, and not attacking. They already have enough arty and other units to support their team mates that are attacking.
@MarKr; What I am quite sure of, is that the Brits Cruiser AA tank does actually still have the ability! Also few more AA vehicles as well if not mistaken...
Tiger1996 wrote:@MarKr; What I am quite sure of, is that the Brits Cruiser AA tank does actually still have the ability! Also few more AA vehicles as well if not mistaken...
i did head on with my def grens on quad cal 50 and aa tank.... aa tank was never an issue. they had many of them.
@Grenadiers: grens were long time underused, with KCH removal, they were to became main Terror unit (and its kinda OK now). However even in other doctrines, they needed to be more used, so they were given MP44s and because they are a bit too good now, one MP44 was removed from the upgrade and its a bit more expensive now - 65 (21/MP44 before) to 50 (25/MP44 now), which makes them less good, while still used more than before STG upgrade. The difference between 2 and 3 stgs is kinda noticeable, so this might suffice, without making them overpriced/underused again.
@SP/Pace CP+1: probably can be, I was not in favor of increasing fuel upkeep on tiger or pershing so they were not upped, tiger price up is more than enough. I still don't think that CP+1 is needed, but whatever, I will give you that one. If now PZIVs should get price reducement, then I dont understand, why did you want bigger tiger price, or well all bigger tanks upkeep +, it makes fielding them even more difficult and there are already voices against reducing "fun" by making units more equal/better units less common...
@BK/Armor overall: BK IS supposed to be early fielder, so early tiger or pzivs are actually BK working AS INTENDED (ok, maybe it was a bit TOO soon, but in terms of few minutes max). On the other hand, some of you took it as Armor doc should be able to spam from the start, which is NOT how its ment to be working. Supply yard is there for that strategy part of the game, where you either play with less fuel intensive units and upgrade early, or play with mid intensive units and upgrade in between or play with fuel intensive units and you will have upgrade later. That is how it should work, however from all that "reduce supply yard, make it whenever player want etc." I think you really got it wrong, because thats simply not how its ment to be. If you play with other teammates, you can also ask for boost from airborne doc and their supply drop and just play as a team, where they have to know, that you either help with tanks now or will be better later. Armor doc is not supposed to be early spammer, thats what I wanted to say, to close the whole supply yard topic.
@AA target ground: as part of AA rebalancing, we removed attack ground, or it was atleast planned, if its still there, then its not supposed to be there, feel free to list all AA units with attack ground
@Commandos etc: if they don't get vetted sprint, then its probably because of the smoke, if they should have two suppression breaking abilities is a question. Regarding weapons, my idea back when it was more actual was 2 things - either commandos will get 2 thompsons instead of 2 brens, with 2 more thompsons buyable even before tech tree upgrades, so 4 thompsons total possible, to keep sten ingame + lee einfields would receive 1 bren. Or second idea was that commandos will get 2 brens like now, but it would be optional, to keep possibility of more of a CQB squad - in form of upgrade which costs 0 munnition after tech tree selection.
Just to get things straight, the sten is the worst SMG, correct?
From best to worst, it goes Thompson > MP40 > Grease Gun > Sten. At least that's what I think. Am I right?
I don't like the idea of sten commandos being able to buy thompsons. It's sort of redundant to go from one SMG to another SMG. My example here is the US combat engineers. That too is a squad of 6 guys, all of whom have SMG's to start with, grease guns in this case. But they have the option of upgrading to thompsons twice, which gives them 2 each. But why would you spend the munition to do so? The fact of the matter is, if the combat engineers are in close range with an enemy unit, they will win. It doesn't really matter what guns they have, since the difference is marginal. The same goes for the commandos.
However, that said, the sten is noticeably worse than all the other SMG's. But I think an issue with that is perception due to unupgraded commandos having very low health. A volks squad with mp40's will sometimes beat a sten commando squad at the start of the game.
The only time I would see thompsons on the current commandos being better than stens is them being able to beat other units that also have close range weapons. For example, a PE assault grenadier squad with 4 MP44's would always beat a sten commando squad at close range. But if the commandos had thompsons, they might be able to win.
I wouldn't compare SMGs like this, simply put, whatever SMG you have, on very close distance it will be about luck/who reloaded/who comes first from the corner etc. Thompson however is better on longer range than Sten, thats why Thompsons. I'd say that its roughly that how you listed it on mid distance, but as the weapons are pretty close to each other in performance/big random factor/depends on user, I would be very careful about saying that x is better than y, we all know how that ends on forums. Generally I'd say, Thompsons would be worthy upgrade/replacement of Bren, without making them uber.
@Wolf; "I still don't think that CP+1 is needed, but whatever, I will give you that one." -Thx in advance..
"If now PZIVs should get price reducement, then I dont understand, why did you wanted bigger tiger price, or well all bigger tanks upkeep +, it makes fielding them even more difficult and there are already voices against reducing 'fun' by making units more equal/better units less common..." -mm, I didn't ask for cheaper Pz4s of Blitz doc.. I asked for cheaper Pz4s of Terror doc... It differs a lot I guess!! If their cost is not reduced, Terror will be currently using no trades for sure also with absolutely no tanks during the whole game period until a Tiger is probably 'finally' there.. as who is going to pay 70 fuel for a lame Pz4 with even no armor skirts??!! Don't forget that else plus no Ostwinds o.O We think that Tigers, JPs, and JPzs are so much powerful compared to their current price specifically when are in the hand of experienced players, that's the reason of why we asked to higher their cost. Also another reason is that Tigers are sometimes_cause of their regarded to be a cheap cost_actually spammable only on Blitz doc (by using trades) where they were badly used by their own players as well which is something that surely led to less fun scenes seeing hundred Tigers being wiped out like if they were just Shermans... While honestly the lonely right use as supposed is to get only an early single Tiger or at max two (With an Ace later) in order to handle them both well together combined with several Hs around, that would be really enough as I usually do and mostly succeed in result having high kills too with those few Tigers.
Edit:- I mean it would be a big mistake which will ruin the fun factor of the game out when the Axis players deploy the first Tiger then instead of paying the next 155 fuel for maybe 3 cheap but good Pz4 Hs, they pay it for another Tiger! And this way on and on endlessly with trades they deploy more Tigers until it becomes a weird illogical 'spam'.. that's why I believe that lowering\decreasing the spamming capabilities like u did by making the trades slightly more expensive with more recharging time while also increasing the cost of Tigers... Those players hopefully will then have to wisely think before they decide to keep spamming with Tigers in such a ridiculous bad way!!
"Armor doc is not supposed to be early spammer" -But it's surely also not supposed as I said for the Axis to be spamming Tigers (As sadly and stupidly some players usually do) while in a result and because of that Allies are not capable of replying in the same way with even higher numbers of better upgraded Shermans as supposed.. they defensively camp with a SP, Hellcats, Jumbos and arty... Then what's next??!! U will definitely watch the Tigers 'spam' been killed and ruined up after; leading to a stupid unrealistic game-play.
Last edited by Krieger Blitzer on 15 Feb 2015, 23:04, edited 1 time in total.
Wolf wrote:@BK/Armor overall: BK IS supposed to be early fielder, so early tiger or pzivs are actually BK working AS INTENDED (ok, maybe it was a bit TOO soon, but in terms of few minutes max). On the other hand, some of you took it as Armor doc should be able to spam from the start, which is NOT how its ment to be working. Supply yard is there for that strategy part of the game, where you either play with less fuel intensive units and upgrade early, or play with mid intensive units and upgrade in between or play with fuel intensive units and you will have upgrade later. That is how it should work, however from all that "reduce supply yard, make it whenever player want etc." I think you really got it wrong, because thats simply not how its ment to be. If you play with other teammates, you can also ask for boost from airborne doc and their supply drop and just play as a team, where they have to know, that you either help with tanks now or will be better later. Armor doc is not supposed to be early spammer, thats what I wanted to say, to close the whole supply yard topic.
OK. The Tank IV is supposed to be the first and dominating tank, ok. Means Tank IV´s before 76 shermans do come. Then i would assume that booth are about equal and the dominance of the Tank IV is being reduced after a while because US could build a Tank able to fight them 1 vs 1 for a cheaper cost: The 76 shermans which then forces axis to go for Panthers. The problem is that Tank IV is then still clearly (not only a bit but clearly) the superior tank even when 76 shermans are available (thats why non US armor docs never use them and even armor doc uses 76 shermans almost never). Means the Tank IV which comes so early is for so long really dominant and leaving allis actually only a chance for defensive and only slightly pushing gameplay. Going aggressively against Tank IV´s is only possible with jumbo maybe but its still risky. 76 in sufficient numbers to go aggressively against Tank IV´s coming far too late due to supply yard. Not fuel intensive units doesnt exist in armor doc btw. If you upgrade first supply yard then you will have tanks not before min 40 or at least never tanks in sufficient numbers for offensive gameplay. If you start in min 40 to get enough tanks then elephants, JP´s, etc etc are already ruling the map. Its OK when BK gets dominating tank IV´s earlier but it shouldnt mean that they dominate for such a long time. 76 can outnumber them theoretically not before min 30 while tank IV spam starts in min 12. Another option would be to have 76 guns good enough to fight Tank IV´s reliable even without HVAP all the time. That way the Tank IV domination would decrease over time as soon as the first 76 shermans would hit the battlefield fairly later as Tank IV´s but for a cheaper cost. But you are actually saying that i cant beat Tank IV´s with superior numbers of 76 as i need to save fuel for supply yard which means to build not more than 1 max two 76 shermans but not outnumbering the Tank IV´s at times they occure in numbers up to 4 at the same time.
Another problem you probably dont take into consideration that axis early arty is simply better. I mean except CW arty doc no other allied doc gets comparable early arty to general axis arty.
So there are two problems caused by the one you admit with that comment: Tank IV´s come earlier and in numbers before allied can get so many 76 (which are also much weaker) and that they will dominate. Tank IV domination then leads to rather defensive allied gameplay untill US has supply yard up but during that time axis gets arty all over the place while allied cant really attack (due to Tank IV domination) nor can they do something with arty to weaken axis defense or to counter the axis arty. So allied cant attack really so early nor can they counter the axis arty so early (except using CW arty).
Tell me that i am wrong here, pls. But thats how i understand: Tank IV´s supposed to come early and thus dominating= allied stay in defense= causing problems because axis get arty much earlier which can crush that early defensive gameplay from allied side. Its very weird if you ask me.
Last edited by Warhawks97 on 15 Feb 2015, 23:14, edited 1 time in total.
First, the British crusader. It suppresses all enemy infantry quite quickly, but as for killing them, it is very bad. The crusader struggles to actually kill enemy units. I once had 3 AA crusaders that took ages to kill a simple panzer grenadier squad, even though they were almost insta-pinned.
Second, the Wehrmacht ostwind kills very easily but has almost no suppression.
Third, the PE wirbelwind suffers from a similar issue as the crusader. It always suppresses enemy infantry very quickly, but SOMETIMES it seems to do no damage at all. It's odd, as other times it will immediately kill entire squads.
Compare these 3 AA tanks to the different versions of the US quad halftrack, which suppresses enemy infantry very easily and will kill them shortly after. All of the AA vehicles should be doing the same thing.
Third, the PE wirbelwind suffers from a similar issue as the crusader. It always suppresses enemy infantry very quickly, but SOMETIMES it seems to do no damage at all. It's odd, as other times it will immediately kill entire squads.
This is the first time I've ever heard someone mention that US Quad .50cal actualy outperforms Ostwin/ Wirblewind/ Crusader in...well anything
I think not that long ago somebody mentioned that all quad weapons actually supress very badly. I'm curious - what can other say to this subject?
I wonder where are you always taking this numbers, like it is a rule that everything always starts in 12 minute, and every time you will have enough MP/munni/fuel, already CPs for cheaper IVs, fuel trade and PZIVs... and that every time, every game will be with BK doc and will be exactly like this. I don't believe that. By non-fuel intensive units I ment AT guns and infantry primarily. However since new patch fuel trade will be +90 secs and +25 munni, that alone should reduce ability to spam from BK a bit. There is also additional +1CP to BK mass production in the air, which I have not yet decided whether to put in. I also forgot one pretty important thing with supply yard, that being the +5 fuel stuff won't require TD to upgrade, so if you will go kind of straight to the supply yard, you will have +5 fuel pretty fast. You are also talking about IVs like they had no upkeep at all, they have around 2.5 if I am not mistaken, so 4 would take you 10 fuel too.
@MarKr: me too ;o crusader f.e. is very good with suppression, I was even reducing it a bit few patches back
Wolf wrote:I wonder where are you always taking this numbers, like it is a rule that everything always starts in 12 minute, and every time you will have enough MP/munni/fuel, already CPs for cheaper IVs, fuel trade and PZIVs... and that every time, every game will be with BK doc and will be exactly like this. I don't believe that. By non-fuel intensive units I ment AT guns and infantry primarily. However since new patch fuel trade will be +90 secs and +25 munni, that alone should reduce ability to spam from BK a bit. There is also additional +1CP to BK mass production in the air, which I have not yet decided whether to put in. I also forgot one pretty important thing with supply yard, that being the +5 fuel stuff won't require TD to upgrade, so if you will go kind of straight to the supply yard, you will have +5 fuel pretty fast. You are also talking about IVs like they had no upkeep at all, they have around 2.5 if I am not mistaken, so 4 would take you 10 fuel too.
Hmmm.. it is true. Upgrade simply next fuel point and get the tank. Every BK player is doing so currently. And this number is very often correct. These 4 CP are very very easy to get and if one CP is still missing i get a stug III first or ostwind or OP an ammo point.
This number is correct in pretty much every game. Min 12 is the average min tank IV comes. Usually between min 9 and min 15 they occure and possible two of them very fast. Also not more is neccessary. Unlike US which needs always special HE units/shermans axis do not need stubby HE Tank IV. A single Tank IV is actually doing the job of HE sherman and m10 or 76 sherman. So two Tank IV´s bashing easily every allied inf and tanks at that time while US would need 2 HE shermans and one or two hellcats. Thx again to crap cal 50´s.
Belive me this min 12 is actually always correct. Ok, sometimes only Marder I coming at that time instead tank IV´s which means not that they cant be dominating in "Tag team".
And this fuel trade is only needed for the 5th Tank IV btw.
9 fuel point upgraded at the time the second building is build (maybe earlier or later), then only 1 PUma with 20 mm kwk and 2-3 Tank IV´s (1x H + 2x J) are easily possible + maybe an AT squad. Maybe volks are also still alive at that time. Its really not hard. the res trade is unlocked quickly once the two Tank IVs or 3 of them or 2 + 1 ostwind starting with their destruction. I use the res trade then for getting next building and Bigger tanks wihoout really having a "switching phase". I get the ammo as i dont give HE ammo to Tank IV´s and sometimes no AP rounds. I dont need them because of 95% pen chance vs shermans you know.
and yeah, get paks.... the 76 and 17 pounder is the best you can do. But you didnt read all apparently: Axis also get first arty. So goodbye 76 paks and that before they could get stuff for their own offense or to counter neblers. Also use inf.... you forgot the mobile Mg42´s, scout cars etc? they are usually still alive at that time. Did i mention sd2? They come often together with Tank IV and terror neblers also at that time.
yeah, 4 Tank IVs cost 10 fuel maybe. My standard is 3 Tank IV´s and then ostwind. Makes usually about - 8. Get Hellcats and HE sherman and you have also - 8... very fair isnt it? And i highly doubt that Hellcat and HE sherman is even close as effective as 3 Tank IV´s+ Ostwind. The only "advantage" i see is that US can get tank commanders faster but thats all. Beside that US tanks are quickly killed by schrecks and 50 mm which are mostly provided by PE player together with Mortar HT and sd2 bombs while the group of Tank Iv´s is almost untouchable for any kind of zook inf and the chance to kill a tank IV with zooks is very low. Oh and if you really lack fuel get the battlegroup call in for 850 mp.... one more tank for 0 fuel. As long as the Tank IV´s dominate losses of inf are low and 850 mp easily gathered.
So when number of Tank Iv series comes the US have often not even the supply yard up. So 4 axis tanks draw arround 8 upkeep for axis. US has two tanks each weaker as one axis and also - 8 income and supply yard is not even up very often.
Last edited by Warhawks97 on 15 Feb 2015, 23:41, edited 3 times in total.
Tiger1996 wrote:+1CP for the mass production of Blitz doc is not a good idea, I am not for that! Enough with what is recently made for the Blitz doc I think...
There was nothing done to pzivs besides that change, which, considering that sherman mass production cost 2 CP too, would probably not hurt much.. didn't you just saw warhawks saying that they come in 12th minute?
@WHWks: I for example build supply yard before TD almost all the time - to have upkeep boost early, having to play with AT guns/inf until then. And didn't really consider it a "problem". I thought, that having only 2 neblers is such a problem for axis, that its useless? Suddenly its a problem, because it can destroy AT guns? Seems like they are not that useless after all..... And Jumbo can help too, if needed early.
Tiger1996 wrote:+1CP for the mass production of Blitz doc is not a good idea, I am not for that! Enough with what is recently made for the Blitz doc I think...
There was nothing done to pzivs besides that change, which, considering that sherman mass production cost 2 CP too, would probably not hurt much.. didn't you just saw warhawks saying that they come in 12th minute?
@WHWks: I for example build supply yard before TD almost all the time - to have upkeep boost early, having to play with AT guns/inf until then. And didn't really consider it a "problem". I thought, that having only 2 neblers is such a problem for axis, that its useless? Suddenly its a problem, because it can destroy AT guns?
in late game two nebler suck, yeah. But at min 12 when allis have like 37 mm pak. one 57 and some inf the nebler is dominating. More as two nebler at that time had never been deployed anyway. Only in late game more are neccessary (just like howitzers).
and IF there is no luft doc with early sd2 and SE instead then the 120 mm mortar is dominating.... oh and wespes are also always the first movable howitzers that occure btw if SE is chosen.
Wolf. Since month i do play also with pretty random teams, newbies whatsoever. The Only that give me an interesting fight with axis is SVT but the past two games had been lucky for them + SVT has simply best teamplay in this game. When i dont play against SVT i actually only try to break my own rush records. When i play as allied with randoms against some new random axis player i always somehow try to win. As axis with and against randoms i never even fear too lose. Its all about my privat rush records. In the past few weeks i played as axis with players that either never played pvp in BK or with only little experience rush games against players that i know since years. When i write to my team right at the beginning "Lets rush them" the first answer i get is "lol, how". I am then saying keep pushing and dont build defense, no pak 37 and Mg42, just one of each maximum, PE vehicles and i will do the rest then with tank IV´s. After that its easy coz every lowest skilled players then defends with 50 mm and starts getting neblers.
Means playing as axis unless i do play vs SVT is kinda boring and its only for cracking my personal rush records i did write down over the time.
Last edited by Warhawks97 on 15 Feb 2015, 23:51, edited 2 times in total.
They are not always available so early as Hawks claims, as it actually depends on the map... I disagree with him on this part! Plus that I don't think this is going to be a good idea which is anyhow suitable with the other made changes at all. AB doc now has Hellcats for example!!!
Tiger1996 wrote:They are not always available so early as Hawks claims, as it actually depends on the map... I disagree with him on this part! Plus that I don't think this is going to be a good idea which is anyhow suitable with the other made changes at all. AB doc now has Hellcats for example!!!
on which map not? which map has not a 9 fuel point easy to get? Most players who dont do so are just not aware of that. When i then watch the replay to find the reasons why i didnt saw Tank IV`s or why i didnt got rushed by them i think "ups, lucky that they didnt used Tank IV´s when they could have many of them already oO".
when i watched your replay i always think the same btw. Also you are always very carefully with your tank IV´s. You send one, you may lose it and then you stop producing more or you dont try to attack with booth. Thats what most axis player do. They lose the first, leave the second save behind front and think that they now need tigers. They didnt realize that mostly allis are capable to beat just one as they have just one pak or just one tankbuster. Attacking with two at the same time and getting quickly a third is something most axis players dont do. They get two, attack with one untill this one dies and then go for big tanks for no real reason. and even if 3 Tank IV´s cant finish your opponent those 2 or 3 Tank IV´s keep easily all enemies busy and your two mates can build def and heavier tier units. When i play with sukin the terror/Bk combo i play aggressive and keep alone all enemies busy alone. Sukin just gets neblers, walking stukas CP´s and lots of res and when my Tank IV spam stops he gets 1-2 Panthers as he could save all his res and doing lots of CP´s with rocket arty that kills all the enemies i did push together with my Tanks like cowboys their cows. the third player, usually PE, gets 50 mm paks, mortars and scout cars on all important points and then simply sd2, 88 or luft inf or simply Wespe+booby traps. Its GG then.
I would even claim that i could do 2 vs 3 with sukin against some low-average skilled players as axis. Wouldnt be the first time i do so.
Last edited by Warhawks97 on 16 Feb 2015, 00:05, edited 1 time in total.
Autry as a first example... U get very high fuel income but almost no CPs usually!! I once had a high amount of more than 200 fuel there but only 2 CPs as well, when Brits already had the enough time to build mobile 17Ps and several other AT units everywhere covering the whole map very well with a Firefly too. Going for a Tiger tank deployment will be so much earlier and is always recommend on that map instead of IVH spam..
Duclair as a second example... U get CPs but u will never get the enough fuel!! This gives extra time for the Allies to set up ambushes and AT weapons which are very easily capable of killing each IVH.
Tiger1996 wrote:Autry as a first example... U get very high fuel income but almost no CPs usually!! I once had a high amount of more than 200 fuel there but only 2 CPs as well, when Brits already had the enough time to build mobile 17Ps and several other AT units everywhere covering the whole map very well with a Firefly too. Going for a Tiger tank deployment will be so much earlier and is always recommend on that map instead of IVH spam..
Duclair as a second example... U get CPs but u will not get enough fuel!! This gives extra time for the Allies to set up ambushes and AT weapons which are very easily capable of killing each IVH.
Well, duclair is best axis rush map. Tank Iv´s are not even needed there. My record there is 3:13 with 4 units SR vs brits and US. My teammate had not even contact with the enemie. It might be a bit harder thx to improved US early game but i think 6 mins would be possible.
Auty... yeah... autry.... there US has enough fuel anyway thx... its the only map US nobody lacks fuel. But autry can be rushed as well if i remember correct. My mates who teached me the rushing did so there. They won by spamming simply Pumas with 20 mm kwk rushing straight till enemie base+ 2 50 mm paks.
Last edited by Warhawks97 on 16 Feb 2015, 00:09, edited 1 time in total.
Warhawks97 wrote:Auty... yeah... autry.... there US has enough fuel anyway thx... its the only map US nobody lacks fuel. But autry can be rushed as well if i remember correct. My mates who teached me the rushing did so there. They won by spamming simply Pumas with 20 mm kwk rushing straight till enemie base+ 2 50 mm paks.
I never lacked fuel on Lyon for example too ;p its btw kind of fun, playing sometimes on maps with higher fuel, you should try it -.-. But generally maps are usually 2 low fuel points "sure", and fight goes around 2 med fuels. Sometimes 1 low and 1 med / side. In bigger maps 2 low and 1 med / side.
Warhawks97 wrote:Auty... yeah... autry.... there US has enough fuel anyway thx... its the only map US nobody lacks fuel. But autry can be rushed as well if i remember correct. My mates who teached me the rushing did so there. They won by spamming simply Pumas with 20 mm kwk rushing straight till enemie base+ 2 50 mm paks.
I never lacked fuel on Lyon for example too ;p its btw kind of fun, playing sometimes on maps with higher fuel, you should try it -.-
oh, lyon... i recently watched it on steam beta and it was already kind of annyoing just by watching, lol. Mortar, sd2 and house spawns pure.
Maybe at caen its possible. Caen has afaik nice fuel points easily available and large ammo points or even two.
Thing simply is that it becomes really kind of boring to have so many rush games. I dont want to play only against SVT to have interesting games with axis. The rush is that what keeps playing me axis and which is really a challange. Also i give allis a chance this way as they can do nice counterattacks when i somehow lost my units in rushes. Then its intersting.
Against SVT its rush or loss and they are pretty much the only able to stand the rush but usually only due to teamplay and 101st hellcat combo or jumbo. Camping against SVT is kinda pointless coz CW arty and 101st will smash you then easily. But even those got almost rushed and only lucky 57 mm in first game and lucky hellcat prevented that^^.
But while i have dozens of axis rush games i have exactly two alli rush games. The fastest with sukin recently in 17:32 (its uploaded btw) and we had to use CW arty for 75 mm arty that kept our push up till victory. The other was almost a rush with Timay and Loki against (which belong to the best US players by far) against some medium axis players. But rush stopped when they got 4x 50 mm paks or even 6 and two scout cars. We had AB, Armor, Inf. But that was only possible due to player knowlegde. I knew that my opponents dont use PE scout vehicles and so we risked playing without pak and only with many rifles and jeeps. For allied rush a player knowlegde is neccessary.
Last edited by Warhawks97 on 16 Feb 2015, 00:22, edited 1 time in total.
- using snipers in kangaroo (total bullshit), holding your AT squad and using ground fire to exceed their original range (total bullshit), using AT emplacements manual fire to exceed their range (total bullshit), driving like a mad and killing every armored vehicle on sight (total bullshit), using ground fire with tanks to kill something behind obstacle (total bullshit, what would you do in coh 2 when you donth ave sight behind houses?)... What makes you to think you should have these privileges over casual players, because it is just you and your russian friends that are using them!
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Seems like they are not that useless after all.....