Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

If there is something new, it will be posted here.
User avatar
Wolf
Administrator
Posts: 864
Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 16:01
Location: Czech Republic

Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Wolf » 13 Feb 2015, 15:48

    - INSTALLER Default directory name will no longer be added when browsing folders (sometimes led to users installing BK into double Company of Heroes Relaunch folder)
    - INSTALLER Removed nfw4 launcher, should be universal now (report problems please)
    - US M8 Scott increased range by 10
    - US Slightly increased recoiless rifle effectivity against Panzer IVs
    - US Decreased HVSS price from 35 fuel to 25 fuel
    - US Decreased M10 price by 30 MP
    - US Increased M4 Jumbo call-in price by 75 MP
    - US First supply yard upgrade reduced fuel cost by 25
    - US First supply yard fuel upgrade won't require tank depot built
    - US Second supply yard upgrade reduced MP price by 150 MP
    - US Second supply yard fuel upgrade reduced fuel price by 15 and doesn't require tank depot upgrade
    - US Supply yard fuel upkeep reducement can now be upgraded if both upkeep reducing upgrades were completed OR if both fuel upgrades were completed
    - US Supply yard fuel upkeep reducement fuel price reduced by 15
    - US Increased fuel upkeep reduction in supply yard from 25% to 33%
    - US Reduced side sandbags fuel cost by 20 fuel
    - US Decreased strafe and AP strafe ability cost from 150 to 115 munnition
    - US Decreased bombing run ability cost from 250 to 200 munnition
    - US Decreased fighter-bomber patrol ability cost from 300 to 265 munnition
    - US Reduced M8 Scott fuel cost by 10
    - US Decreased M24 Chaffee fuel upkeep
    - US Decreased M18 Hellcat fuel upkeep
    - US M18 Hellcat is now buildable in Airborne doctrine, with the same unlock as M10
    - US Armor doc SP/PAce unlock now requires one more CP
    - US Armor doc heavy AT mines now require one less CP
    - US Inf doctrine can build .30 cal emplacement
    - US Added suppression to .30 cal jeep
    - US/CW Increased suppression of certain HMGs
    - US Fixed range reticule on triage center
    - US 37mm AT gun will not be able to shoot or be movable when only 1 man crew is left
    - US Decreased 155 mm long tom artillery barrage price from 300 munnition to 250 munnition
    - US Increased howitzer gun nest hitpoints
    - US Rebalanced Airborne engineers (320MP, demolitions without upgrade and can throw satchels)
    - US Reduced AT Threadbreaker ability range
    - CW Reduced effect of "button enemy vehicle" ability
    - CW Fixed 17pdr emplacement was still buildable in every doctrine
    - CW Typhoon bombing ability price decreased from 150 to 135 munnition
    - CW Typhoon incendiary bombing ability price decreased from 200 munnition to 165 munnition
    - CW Changed roayal engineers command tree that canadian M4 support OR Firefly is now directly after M10 unlock
    - CW Rebalanced Bren carrier and WASP
    - CW Increased Dingo efficiency
    - CW Removed crusader AA ground fire
    - CW Increased howitzer gun nest hitpoints
    - CW Tuned crusader damage and suppression a bit
    - WH Increased StuPa range by 5
    - WH Fuel trade price increased from 100 munnition to 125 munnition, increased recharge time by 90
    - WH Increased Tiger "Late" price from 900 MP 155 fuel to 975 MP 170 fuel
    - WH Increased Tiger price from 875 MP 155 fuel to 950 MP 165 fuel
    - WH Decreased Panther G fuel price by 10
    - WH Grenadiers MP44 upgrade gives 2 MP44s instead of 3, reduced munnition price by 15
    - WH Panzer IV Mass production now requires 2 CP instead of 1
    - WH Blitzkrieg ability now requires 1 CP instead of 2 for unlock
    - WH Changed AT infantry type to tp_infantry
    - WH Increased 50mm pak price to 250MP
    - WH Added aim time to some TD which were missing it
    - WH Removed sdkfz234 attack ground
    - WH Decreased Panzer IV Ausf. F2 price from 500 MP 70 Fuel to 460 MP 60 Fuel
    - WH Increased howitzer gun nest hitpoints
    - WH Reduced AT Threadbreak ability range
    - PE Fuel trade price increased from 100 munnition to 125 munnition, increased recharge time by 90
    - PE Increased base Jagdpanther cost to 1000 MP and 180 fuel (900 + 160 after reduction)
    - PE Decreased base Nashorn cost to 560 MP 75 fuel (500 + 60 after reduction)
    - PE Increased base Jagdpanzer IV/70 cost to 600 MP 85 fuel (540 + 70 after reduction)
    - PE Henschell panzerknacker ability decreased cost from 275 munnition to 250 munnition
    - PE FW bombing run price decreased from 250 munnition to 215 munnition
    - PE Increased Marder I and III fuel upkeep (I had 0)
    - PE Added aim time to some TD which were missing it
    - PE Decreased Assault Grenadiers price to 435 MP
    - PE Changed command tree, wespe is now in more "arty" based subtree, mine layer in more defensive subtree and other changes
    - PE Increased 50mm pak price to 250MP
    - ALL Tank commanders can be healed by aid stations/ambulances etc.
    - ALL Changed internal function of direct fire ability a bit
    - ALL Changed internal function of certain AP rounds
    - ALL Recon planes now should properly enter the map before being shot down (experimental testing, will be added to all planes if it will work)

MarKr again did a great job on many changes.
Attachments
SE.jpg
SE Command Tree
RE.jpg
Roayal Engineers Tree
Image

User avatar
Sukin-kot (SVT)
Posts: 840
Joined: 09 Dec 2014, 08:36
Location: Ekaterinburg, Russia

Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 13 Feb 2015, 16:28

What means another inf type for AT team?

User avatar
Tiger1996
Posts: 2981
Joined: 06 Dec 2014, 15:53
Location: I'm from Egypt, but I live in Qatar.
Contact:

Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 13 Feb 2015, 16:52

Same question as Sukin's here!! What does that mean??

Idk why I do have a strong believe and some certain negative feelings about that in fact this will be disastrous if the SP is not anyhow delayed by at least 1 CP.. since specifically when to see what u have done for some unknown reasons till now with the Axis Trades although no one actually asked for this; I m really keen on knowing the possible logic reasons for that!
As that honestly our goal was to higher the cost of the currently most effective Axis tanks as supposed, such as the Tiger and the JP in a mean to somehow reduce the spamming capabilities of Axis without touching their Trades themselves while to on the other hand fix the Allies upkeep costs exactly as u responded and with this part it has to surely be well appreciated anyway...

Personally I am not demanding for the removal of PAce or making the Tiger Ace once but Vet2 anymore.. okay, just leave everything considering this 'Aces' subject as it is and as u want up from now! But maybe just delay both the PAce and the SP by one more Command Point!! While with cost reductions for both tanks too.

Also don't forget about this one I suggested recently before:-
17) Current Pz.Kpfw.IV Ausf.E Stubby - 460 MP/50 Fuel (Terror Only) cost to be reduced to 400/35 since Terror has no trades or any mass production abilities unlike Blitz doc!!
And current Pz.Kpfw.IV Ausf.F2 - 500 MP/70 Fuel (Terror Only) cost to be reduced to 430/50 for the same reason!!!

And watch out the upkeep costs of each tank; I mean that for example as we said the Pershing now is cheaper than the Tiger while the Tiger is probably going to have more upkeep points as +2. Then the Pershing has to gain same value as well or even +3. It's ur decision Wolf!

User avatar
Warhawks97
Posts: 2356
Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 21:45
Location: Germany

Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 13 Feb 2015, 19:52

What inf type had it before? I think same HP level as PE at squad could have been the better option.

The suggested upkeep changes. Anything planned? would be nice to see changes here as suggested.

Stupa + 5 range. Well i hoped that we would get rid soon of those "i force you to attack and running into my ambush" units. Its not the units specific performence as i consider for example stuhs not to be OP but how such outrange units are being used. Simply continuously bombing enemie units leaving them no option to use either arty or going for an assault if they dont want to lose everything against it. But when doing so its usually an ambush with schrecks or simply one or two tanks staying next to stuh ready to counter any assault while the outrange units simply drive backward. Trying Stupa as reward for stuh and stuhs cheaper for same range as stuhs would have been much cooler... Nobody will attack anymore except with stuhs and stupas while being bodyguarded by Tanks and inf which leaves again only arty as reliable counter:(

User avatar
Sukin-kot (SVT)
Posts: 840
Joined: 09 Dec 2014, 08:36
Location: Ekaterinburg, Russia

Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 13 Feb 2015, 20:02

Stupa is bullshit and with +5 range still will be bullshit. Can you give it standart tank range but revive good accuracy? it will solve both issues.

User avatar
Warhawks97
Posts: 2356
Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 21:45
Location: Germany

Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 13 Feb 2015, 20:07

Sukin-kot (SVT) wrote:Stupa is bullshit and with +5 range still will be bullshit. Can you give it standart tank range but revive good accuracy? it will solve both issues.



or that. Tank range but good accuracy against weapon crews, emplacments, still good vs not moving tanks and inf dependent if they move but sprinting inf harder to hit. Also really moving to BK doc which could combine stupa with tank IV and stormtroopers.

Also stupa maybe oneshot most emplacments (?). That way it could drive into the "dangerzone" knock out the "obstacle" with a single shot and retreat for reload. Would be better as constant free bombing from save distance leaving enemie only the option to run into an obvious ambush.

Range increase wouldnt make this unit more usefull. It just would hurt gameplay and fun and being just used as "forcing enemie to attack and running into ambush". Guess nobody would like that. Do the same with stuh and drop stuh cost to be better combinable with tanks and inf.


Edit: I would also see to have SP delay + 1 CP. Take that CP from anoher unlock in armor doc tectree which could be reduced by 1.

User avatar
Wolf
Administrator
Posts: 864
Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 16:01
Location: Czech Republic

Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Wolf » 13 Feb 2015, 22:12

Sukin-kot (SVT) wrote:Stupa is bullshit and with +5 range still will be bullshit. Can you give it standart tank range but revive good accuracy? it will solve both issues.


As each AT squad effectivity is defined by 4 main stats (HP, cost, weapon loadout, target type), one of them was changed on WH, as cost is to be kept same, HP is the same as US, weapon loadout is better (and I would like to keep that), then the fourth "stat" was changed, which will mean, that they won't get -25% accuracy received. Its almost the same as decreasing HP, but I decided to do it this way and honestly if I reduce HP or change target type is my decision, not warhawks one.

@Stupa.... again, trying to anger me just like that? Have you even tried current stupa? I remember it from when I was setting it... Its WAY beyond bullshit, even just tried... accuracy vs non moving shermans? 5 destroyed on 5 shots, MAX range! Bullshit? Seriously? Your current demi-god Warhawks just said "good accuracy against weapon crews, emplacments, still good vs not moving tanks and inf dependent if they move but sprinting inf harder to hit." Its ALREADY SET JUST LIKE THAT, it also oneshots a lot of emplacements, two shots every one I think. I didn't do some kind of stupid "just set this to half or whatever" when I was reducing stupas accuracy, it took time. With +5 more range it again outranges the AT guns, with that I wanted to give you additional posibility to destroy emplacements via something else than Arty. You call that bullshit again? Seriously, whats wrong with you. Yes, stupa will have trouble accurately shooting running soldiers, that is intended, it has MG for that. You will seriously cry for 100% accuracy again? Cmon, I thought that you are a good player.
Image

User avatar
Warhawks97
Posts: 2356
Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 21:45
Location: Germany

Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 13 Feb 2015, 22:42

so why + 5 range? It ends in annoying "i force you to attack me" camping. Also as i can remember axis inf overruns MGs and emplacments quite well in mid-late game...... Its just not neccessary that way. Currently axis has no problems with enemie defenses at all. So whats your goal with that change?

About stats i havent used stupa. Def doc is simply not my style.

User avatar
Tiger1996
Posts: 2981
Joined: 06 Dec 2014, 15:53
Location: I'm from Egypt, but I live in Qatar.
Contact:

Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 13 Feb 2015, 22:45

@Hawks; Man! Come on... :D Just live with it or bad things would happen I guess xD
There are much more important things to be considered about for now I think...

User avatar
Wolf
Administrator
Posts: 864
Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 16:01
Location: Czech Republic

Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Wolf » 13 Feb 2015, 22:49

Warhawks97 wrote:so why + 5 range? It ends in annoying "i force you to attack me" camping. Also as i can remember axis inf overruns MGs and emplacments quite well in mid-late game...... Its just not neccessary that way. Currently axis has no problems with enemie defenses at all. So whats your goal with that change?

About stats i havent used stupa. Def doc is simply not my style.

It was to quiet these who say "stupa is useless" etc. this gave it another purpose, enhanced its strategic importance. As you can imagine something with range 80 is more important than 75. And because its definitely not going to get 100% accuracy against moving stuff, this was one of the things, that could be done. Its still less than it had, but "everybody now uses grille anyway" right? This could shift it a bit to stupa again, but a some people will stay at grille, so exactly what is wanted. It didn't go to BK, because BK already has good units overall and doesn't need additional unit, BK is all-rounder already.
Image

User avatar
Sukin-kot (SVT)
Posts: 840
Joined: 09 Dec 2014, 08:36
Location: Ekaterinburg, Russia

Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 13 Feb 2015, 23:24

I got your point, ok, lets see at this +5 range, maybe it will work.

User avatar
Warhawks97
Posts: 2356
Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 21:45
Location: Germany

Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 13 Feb 2015, 23:39

we had +5 range thing already when accuracy got reduced but all wanted -5

Doesnt matter if every second shot only hits the target. Its simply this "i force you to attack me and running into ambsuh" thing. Stupa players will find it out soon and bam.... stupa+ IV/A or schrecks and its ends up like in 4.6... not as crazy but similiar. Allied: "How will we counter stupa and will we have something in time?" Axis: "When comes stupa to attack. Our schrecks and tanks are rdy to defend this unit".


Just no fun when the entire game will be all about these two question.

Also do you think def will become usless? def training + new grens with stg, elephant, arty, VT, Grille, Bunkers, pios with improved repairs, 88 as defense and arty.. shall i continue? I could understand that stupa is a must that this doc is playable but we are far away from that point. Are you really risking to lose the gameplay entirely to the stupa and the stuff arround the stupa just that more will use it instead grille? oO

User avatar
Tiger1996
Posts: 2981
Joined: 06 Dec 2014, 15:53
Location: I'm from Egypt, but I live in Qatar.
Contact:

Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 14 Feb 2015, 00:15

Maybe Stupa +5 range increase wasn't actually a good idea but well.. since I honestly don't know why Wolf always signs it with his own made touches!! :P
But away from these side subjects anyways;
We are still looking forward to see the SP being delayed by at least 1 CP as a result to recent changes now because we think that this is a must somehow! Just repeating this point for its highly importance.

Pz4s costs of Terror doc might also get a reduction as I suggested since this doctrine has no trades or any mass production abilities while more expensive Tigers now as well! Also don't forget that they currently have worst Pz4s in performance already which are noway comparable with Hs or Js of Blitz doc plus no Ostwinds are available there even.

And finally we would like to hear about any made specific tank upkeep changes plz such as Pershings and Tigers for example! Also, we would like to know if it's possible or not for the Hellcats to become available for all US faction docs as an unlock while M10 as to be standard...

We will be then so much thankful with appreciations really ;)

User avatar
Sukin-kot (SVT)
Posts: 840
Joined: 09 Dec 2014, 08:36
Location: Ekaterinburg, Russia

Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 14 Feb 2015, 08:58

@Wolf

Now listen me carefully and try to understand pls, im not trying to offend you, just wanna make BK better. Whats the problem with previous patches and why game became kinda more boring? Thats because your overnerfes, most of the things needed change for sure, but in not so radical way. Was super OP - now super shit ( 12 recoilles shots instead 3 to kill pz4, commando with smoke are killed by volks instead bashing everything, easy frag stupa instead 1 army unit, all dies in halftruck instead no deaths, worst accuracy of stuh and stupd instead best accuracy and etc.). I will tell here what i would have done with all this, and you will tell me why i maybe not right, ok? Lets start.

The game became nore campy and boring because many things dissapeared after nerf, examples: Super offensive stuh now easy frag, although i never had problems with it ( as inf doc drive on it with halftruck + at team with upgraded zooks inside, truck will take a shot, then boys will kill stuh, as commando just use piat with invisible smoke, hellcat in armor doc, so there were many counters and its kinda balanced). Commando smoke - was one of the best offensive things to prevent early camping with mg42, i always firstly bought 2 commano squads with stens using smoke + good micro + flanking you could break any early defence, interesting and active game. Now i stopped play this doc because it have no doc advantages in compare to airborne, really, can you name at least one? 101s can be equipted for any combat distance + HQ team + res drops adn etc. etc., in Raf doc you must open hakf of your command tree just to allow your commando at least not die from volks squads lol, only few fun things remained in this doc - cangaroo with 2 snipers, commando with enfields and Raf jeep, thats all, other things are just weak. Scott, why the hell you nerfed it, 50 fuel vehicle ( 50f its god damn much for armor doc) with long reload time which can be killed with a single shot of most axis weapons, it was fun fast unit which also was making game active, currently 300mp shermans everywhere, they are slow, cant be atacked by inf at all, but also cant atack, so both sides are just staying, no more fun hunting with scotts as well as fun hunting for scotts. And i can continue in such way about all other cahnges. Now, what i would have done with all it.

The main question, why you denies any balancing with cost adjustments?

1) Stuh, problem was that everybody went for stuhs in bk, it was a good all arround unit if you cover it with AT and good micro managment, bust still could be countered easily actually. I think you had to just adjust its price, imagine 600 MP and 90 F = no more stupid stuh spam, quit balanced, high effective unit, but for big price. People will think 3 times before investing so many res to a unit which can die just from everything and you will stay with naked ass, without res. That also means balanced way of different doc trees, have problems with masses of inf? - open stormtroopers. See that enemie have 2 airdocs and lack of at stuff? - pz4 and ostwinds here. See that 2 brits went for emplacements spam? - there is your expensive stuh

Curently - pz4 absolutely best solution in all situations, because recoilless or commando piats without smoke can only scratch them = more paks from alied side = passive game = more arty.
Before - stuh absolutely best solution in all situations, because very cheap for its prefomance.

And dont tell me about "not any unit should have 100% accuracy", because its only funny, we have 100 accuracy arty, schrecks, he shermans, nearly all tanks with TC missing very rare, but unit with 15 sec. reloading time cant have good accuracy, really? Moreover, this hitting a dirt in front of itself is even less logical than 100% accuracy, crew drunken? or blind?

2) Commando smoke, im sure that it was a problem only because of price, 15 ammo for making your inf immune to all bullets and shells, lol? And still, people played and countered it (ostwind ground fire into smoke\fire nades\gren bundels\S minse of tiger ace\ stupa\ grille or simple have schwims on front, when they were close to commando they werent invisible). For 15 ammo it was activated every time when raf player see enemie and enemie couldnt do much, that was a problem. What if it costed 40 ammo? = powerfull OFFENSIVE ability which must be activated smartly for overruning mg42, or immobolizing heavy tanks, or saving your squad from complete death, or for captureing important res point balanced? i think perfectly.

3) Airstrikes were bashing everything, now 2 ostwinds bashing all planes, no air support = more arty. AA is fine now, adjust planes price (100 ammo strafe and claster bombs, 150 ammo rocket run and thunderbolt 250kg)

4) SE sniper - was a cool unique daddy with semi rifle, on of the ways of preventing airborne inf domination on field. Now just the same as all other snipers, although its doc specific unit. What if it cost 450 mp? Better than other snopers? - yes. More expensive? - yes. And player have choice. to build fully functional stormgrenadiers or a single sniper, which can die just from random shot of anything.

Before - all prefered snipers, because 2 of them could do prettu much.
Currenlty - all prefer stormgrenadiers.

5) Scott - as i already said above, dunno why you changed it, it was already very expensive for 1 shot unit with long cool down. And exactly now, when axis always have tons of grens of field, why dont revive this hunting machine? And again, players have choice, fast scott which can 1 shot squads but also dies with 1 shot, or slow M4 with HE but which can survive up to 4 schrecks and faster reload time. Less staying HE shermans = more active game.

Before - all used scotts.
Now - no scotts.

And this + 10 range will not change anything, why i need big range when unit will not be able to hit anything on it?

5) Biggest fail - non arty doc limitation, together with other change above it leaded to arty parties ( raf cant atack without smoke, He shermans are to slow in compare to scotts, airborne cant atack because 1 pz4 fucks them all, stuhs cant clear the path from emplacements becuase easy frags, btw, yesterday i played vs. maeglin, he is probably the last man who is trying to use stuhs, i just ran on it with inf doc at team, stuh hited a dirt in front of itself and then died) so after that existed SE and CW in every game.

Simple fact, if you have 2 howitzers - you can shoot only with 2, if you have 10 howitzers - you can shoot only with 2. Also this limit is stupid because can be avoided by smart players easily, yesterday i had 6 nebels. As inf doc it looks just ridicoulus, we pushed forward and howitzers out of range now? Sry, crew guys, i must kill you because i need a new howitzer, closer to front.

I like very much what you did to terror, buffed stuka + grens - great offense. Now sometimes dialogs in lobby are like: Do we need SE against def stuff spam? No, ill go terror, stuka is enough for clearing paks and other shit. So, no se, no arty party. And thats very cool wolf, games became better, stuka is not spammable, expensive, terror havent got any res trades, that means that you use arty only exactly when you need it, when CW arty and SE be like: ok, lets shoot to fog of war, maybe i will hit something.

Its a simple example how adding more good arty leads to less amount of arty parties, because there is no extreme need in heavy arty docs. im more than sure that if we will have commando with smoke, scotts, inf arty withouh limits, than CW arty will not be such a "must have" thing on alied side. Also with addind 75mm howitzer to Armor doc. Finally teams will need SE or CW only if WE defence\ CW sappers are going to a real fortifications spam, all other things will be solved with light arty, or inf doc.

6) Field gun - the problem was in very much HP and high accuracy, you nerfed both. My last experince with it: I bought this thing for 350 mp, which is pretty much, placed on field where no obsticles at all to protect my side against inf and what happened? PE at squad came to this area, field gun hited a dirt, guys sprinted to it and killed with a single panzerfaust shot - very fun and effective unit. You had to decrease gun and crew hitpoints without touching accuracy, but you changed both and what now? I havent seen this unit fir a very long time.

7) Stupa - yep, it was 1 army unit, and def player could play only with it and rebuild right after loosing. So, why not make 1 army unit cost like an army? lets say 1000 mp, 100 ammo and 190 fuel. 1 more choice for player, invest res to a unit which might be very deadly, but also can die from 1 17p shot, hellcat , rocket run or whatever.

8) Usa halftruck - was the way of axis superior in early game compensation, because they have scout cars, absolutely deadly mg42s, 81mm mortars much earlier than USA and etc., this truck sometimes was the only hope for preventing axis heavy camping ( run through mg and pak, kill morta truck and etc.). it was never a big threat to skilled axis player, bring schreck on front, keep it together with volks equipted by mp40, and this truck cant do anything). Now its a completely BS which cant help you, since all dead when truck explodes, i completely stopped to use it after vet 2 rangers and vet 1 at team died there after schreck shot from max distance. Players had choice - this truck with inf or Greyhound\quad call and etc., now they havent, nobodu builds this truck. You had to limit explode deaths to 50% at least, in that case trucks still will be usefull, but you will also have some inf looses after explode.

I will stop here, hope you got my point. I really belive that all this old fun things together with good changes you did (terror reworked a bit, good armor for churchils and etc. will make game a way better).
Last edited by Sukin-kot (SVT) on 14 Feb 2015, 13:59, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Wolf
Administrator
Posts: 864
Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 16:01
Location: Czech Republic

Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Wolf » 14 Feb 2015, 12:59

I understand some of the things, some of them not, but more importantly, many of them are what people wanted!

1) 100% accuracy on (currently still) biggest distance of all tanks, it is currently anti-emplacement and anti-stationary unit, many disliked its ability to oneshot whole squads (and I used it in my last game, 2 squads for 3 shots, I still take it...).

2) again, forums were full of "stupid ninja smoke", remove iiit! so only invisibility was removed, its effect kind of remained. I was constantly reminded how UNREAL it is, how can such unreal thing can be in Blitzkrieg etc. so this was just pleasing the community, of which a lot of guys wanted it removed.

3) direct cause of better AA, plane cost revision is planned, I said that already when AAs were "buffed".

4) you are again making false assumptions, SE sniper is not the same as other snipers, he still has better stats. Plus again, people were crying over it, and having it for 450MP would be a solution? I dont think so, it would be too expensive

5) scotts were declining since the M4 got perma HE mode, plus again, forums full of "but scott kiled my whole squaaaad, how can such faast unit onehiit acuratelyyyy".

5x2?) problem exists only on certain maps, on which its now strategic decision, how close to front build them. We didn't want every problem to be solved by "hmm, lets build another howitzer". Having 6 nebels isn't something to be proud of, the reason for limitation is for people to use DIFFERENT solutions to problems, then arty. Yes, problem is that everyone is always trying to find the easiest/cheapest one.

6) I again have different experience with the gun, plus its advantage lies in perma HE mode, not only for killing, but for criticals too

7) because 100% accuracy just isn't something, that should be in the mod, people were complaining about stupa all the time, not how expensive it was, but how it was performing. It was a frustration for them, to go against unit, which just hit (and usually oneshot) everything, all the time, on range greater then anything else, which led again, to players going for arty, because who would want to take this beast in direct fight

8) and now you are making things up, players again, complained that nobody dies in US Halftrack, we fixed that, you know how? there is modifier of percent unload on death, so you wanted 50%? You know what did I set? 50%.
Image

User avatar
Sukin-kot (SVT)
Posts: 840
Joined: 09 Dec 2014, 08:36
Location: Ekaterinburg, Russia

Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 14 Feb 2015, 13:49

in 90% cases complains of people means nothing sadly. 1 guy fucked by a single unit, comes to forume and asking for a nerf. For last year i listened complains about nearly all units in game, starting with "rifles with grese guns are op at the beginning, they shreded my grens" and ending with "KingTiger is op, it came and shred my shermans". Its a bad touch to complain about it in BK mod, where we have hundreds of units, you always can find a counter to any problem (exept facing early flak 88 as Armor doc lol).

Just from my experince, 2 kinds of people who complained on stuh
1) Brit player builds emplacements, stuh coming and destroying all that shit = omg, this thing destroyed my beatifull sim sity from save distance, absolutely op.
2) Usa player playing with blobs of inf, stuh coming and smashing his mob.


Though many good guys also complained it (like warhawks, cyberzombie) i think that problem was exactly in their mass production, killing 1 or 2 of them was never a problem, arty, trucks with zooks, wolverines and hellcats, smart ambushed paks, piats with smoke, jumbo, airstrikes and etc. helped perfectly, but when you had a constant stream of stuhs only on your side, that already was hard.

Stupa spam were annoying, but exactly this stupid rebuilding 1 after another, killing it wasnt a big problem since it couldnt survive more than 2 penetrations from any type of cannon, super unit? ok, give a super price, people who liked it will use it, for skilled guys it will be to risky investment (in 2v2 waiting for so big amount of res means instang gg), i think both sides will be glad.

For smoke its even more stupid, commando was the only alied inf which cant be killed like "ill go infront with my super KCH\reg. 5\gebirgs\storms and smash them", killing them required some stratagem from axis players (like i said, scwims together with inf, fire nades and etc.) but of course when dumb axis fanboy tryed to get close and was shred by invisible stens it pisses him off. Problem was in price, people used it in almost every meeting with enemie, if it could be limited by price and people stopped activate it evey second all would have been fine. Also, nobody have problems with stormtroopers which can crawl in invisible mod right on naked road, then suddenly will stand close yo your inf and schred it with mp44, isnt it the same?

Whine about scots was also pointless, and i actully heard it only from axis only players and VoteVeto, do you really think that a vehicle which dieing from 1 Pak 38 shot could bother good player? ha

"the reason for limitation is for people to use DIFFERENT solutions to problems, then arty."
Ye, and different solution for players became a cw arty and SE in every game, experiment failed.

SE sniper having a veeeeery little difference with others (btw, the fastest snipers are from Airborne HQ, when hq team stay nearby they never missing and have very good rof)

"and now you are making things up, players again, complained that nobody dies in US Halftrack, we fixed that, you know how? there is modifier of percent unload on death, so you wanted 50%? You know what did I set? 50%."

Well, last 3 times all men died completely, maybe i was unlucky.

And 1 more time, all this changes were logical, if looking directly to them, but sadly it did only a harmfull effect on gameplay.

Erich
Posts: 101
Joined: 07 Jan 2015, 20:51

Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Erich » 14 Feb 2015, 14:46

maybe Remove the Chain breaker ability of both AT squads would be great,they can shot without reload which is totally unreal and Axis had 90% of chances to immobilize the tank while the US had 50 or 60%.

User avatar
MarKr
Team Member
Posts: 1648
Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 19:17
Location: Czech Republic

Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby MarKr » 14 Feb 2015, 14:56

I can quite well remember Warhawks saying several times "StuHs and Stupas are broken since you just need one unit, cover it with MG and AT gun and you actually force the opponent to attack and fall into trap or do nothing and get smashed".

Also you say that "this or that could be easily countered by loading infantry into trucks or HTs and letting the infantry firing from it." Also "when truck or HTs get destroyed infantry dies but before they didn't". Both of these were simply such stupid features. In military when you have transport vehicles such as APCs or simple trucks they off-load carried infantry well off anticipated danger area. Or where have you seen soldiers effectively killing enemies from inside vehicles moving at full speed? Well, apart from Call of Duty series? And Cangaroo + 2 Snipers? Yes, it is effective but also total crap from any point of view.

Don't do this "I give you reasons why I think this and that change was stupid and you give me reasons why you think it wasn't." kind of posts because quite obviously Wolf had his reasons and whenever he gives them to you, your answer is "Well, no because you can do xyz and after that abc..." - you disagree and give him your reason which he doesn't agree with. Both of you clearly stand firmly at your stand points and neither of you is going to accept the reasoning of the other so it leads nowhere. Seriously, just stop it will save time to both of you ;)
Image

User avatar
Wolf
Administrator
Posts: 864
Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 16:01
Location: Czech Republic

Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Wolf » 14 Feb 2015, 15:08

That. And like I said, most of these listed things were actually what people wanted, most of those weren't from my head even. StuPa, SE sniper, HT, Scotts/Stuhs(they were not problem because of blobs, but because it killed WHOLE squad on one shot), ninja smoke.

Btw. just now I got another message about how that CW AT gun is so OP, and that I should reduce its range... its not only you guys out there playing the game and others have also opinions on stuff.

Recoiless weren't changed THAT much btw. it was few percent iirc. However I buffed them a bit against pziv again.
Image

User avatar
Warhawks97
Posts: 2356
Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 21:45
Location: Germany

Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 14 Feb 2015, 16:00

About arty i agree with sukin. Def walks back and suddenly no more arty support. Also note that mortars cant outrange 88´s of example. Add to that that in late game mortars are simply unreliable. There is a kind of kill zone between two sides defenses and a mortar have to be there to reach the other defense. Ammo doesnt allow to shoot with more than two howitzers anyway and heavy defense simply needs heavy arty. I had games without CW arty and we did need 4 or 5 107 mm mortar emplacments, calli sherman, 3 Howitzers, VT´s, Mortar VT of captain, RAF airstrikes and hell idk what elsse. I one game we rushed pretty fast in 18 mins to enemie base where an 88 and bunker+ scout car and inf awaited us. We did need two AB 75 mm howitzers, calli jeep, calli sherman, tank commander off map, 3 arty shermans. But untill we got that enemie got nebler+ schrecks that rushed two arty churchills. Imagine what is happening in late games to expensive Mortar HT´s? They get schrecked, M10ed, neblered, artied, maybe counter mortared before scratching enemie defenses.
Also unemplaced 88´s can be killed actually only when at least two, usually three 105 shoots them. Onl vet 3 sniper priest sometimes kill it them in a single salvo. But often 88´s occure before or right when one 105 is available. So there can be plenty 88´s before real arty can break them.
Better walking stuka helped reducing need of SE. If non heavy arty docs would be able to crush normal defenses better and when they would have more early light arty as kind of "early hardcore camping counter meassures" then CW arty would be less often used. Docs like CW arty will maintain arty rain regardless of how campy or dynamic a game becomes in late game. SE sometimes also after double Hummel call in its hard to start gettin inf, weapons and to level them up. Terror and inf docs etc do not rely on arty when game becomes flexibel and tactical with large micro gameplay. Those have grens, Tanks, cheap ranger or whatever. Thats simply the difference and why i think arty limit removal of nebler and howitzers and more light arty for some other docs wouldnt cause more arty as we currently have.

About inf shouldnt die when HT blows up and OP scotts etc units is stupid. That way the games are all about the 10% OP units figting each other and 90% usless trash without sense. Using one existing "cheat" unit to stop another is stupid (HT+zook vs stuh, scott vs AT squads). It makes 90% oof units obsolet or just supportive to defend those cheater OP units.

Scott: 300/30 and + 5 range maybe. Like a weaker but faster sherman for inf doc. What would + 10 range mean btw? outrange tanks? if so then pls not. Btw i do agree with sukin here. 400/50 for a fragile unit dying from single hit and even dies from 28 mm vehicles was never much of an isse for me. pak 38, stug III and prob was solved actually. Now its just too bad or too expensive. It btw didnt oneshot units unless those stood together in a defense. Grens etc rushing forntally to scott lost usually 1 or two men thx to V formation. The WE BK doc 37 mm HT for 280/35 can oneshot entire inf squad as well btw even when those sprint. RoF is even higher and at least second shot killed the inf squad. The limit btw for stupa was also not neccessary.

Stuh:stupa: Do something new with them but not adding range. This "forcing enemie to attack" is silly and boring. They need to be used and usable in some combinations. Maybe Tank Range and in case of stuh cheaper with stug III armor values if it isnt the case with similiar cost.
But outrange forces use of arty. I agree with wolf here. You cant expect from someone to send all His TD´s just to kill the stupa and stuh which is for sure an IV/A, 50 mm, schreck ambush. Arty is the most used and best way to kill such "outranger" unless the player got already a massive quantity superiority.

Edit: Stuhs/stupa: Sukin: I watched the replay of your stupa game and you lost it simply by ruhsing into paks. First you ran into US pak. first shot engine damaged and second bounced. Lucky fo US pak that stupa shot at the same time at something else. Then you kept staying in pak range so it killed the stupa. The one lost against pershing which is already allied elite tank just to kill a support unit. And one lost by running into 17 pounder. So a Panther wouldnt have shown a better performence in such moments.
About stuhs: skilled player dont use it because its boring for them. You remember our rush games? what if i would have stopped building Tank Iv´s and ostwinds and insetad calling 2 stuhs... would have been too easy or?

Also BK doc is actually a very aggressive doc and able to be more aggressive as any other doc. Mobile retreat points with good inf, res trade that allows forming up a larger army with powerfull units, battlegroup call ins to push the attack, tiger ace and stuh turns this doc for most players into a defense or camp doc. Many do use stuhs and esspecially when playing with complete random teams. They choose BK only for stuhs and it goes then like endless paks first, sandbags and mgs and waiting untill stuh comes to start the attack protected by inf and half dozens of paks. I dont think that stuhs are supposed to turn the gameplay of an entire doc. In this case away from aggressive purposes of this doc into pure defense and very very carefully attacking with a single unit. Meaglin is the last of the experienced players who try to achive the win just with stuhs. All others got bored playing this doc and unit this way or simply maybe for "gentlemens behavior". Stuhs and stupas are made to break down defenses fast and allowing deep and fast attacks figting along with inf mainly but also tanks during an offense. Imagine stuh with tank range and stug III cost suppored by some inf and two tank IVs and this purpose could be achieved ( i often get stug III+ 2 tank IV´s so stuh+ 2 Tank IV´s would be easily possible if stug and stuh would cost about the same). Here they are..... long time staying arround and keep bombing all the time and often being the only offensive unit at all in a doc that is purely made for attack.

Commandos and 101st: smoke should remove suppression longer and vet 3 sprint also. Drop to 400 mp build cost and maybe able to beat volks without need of tecttree unlock. 101st: drop to 400 for early game but + 1 or +2 reinforce for late game balance. Old smoke was stupid because it gave also ambush boni to commandos.

User avatar
Sukin-kot (SVT)
Posts: 840
Joined: 09 Dec 2014, 08:36
Location: Ekaterinburg, Russia

Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 14 Feb 2015, 17:03

Warhawks97 wrote:Commandos and 101st: smoke should remove suppression longer and vet 3 sprint also. Drop to 400 mp build cost and maybe able to beat volks without need of tecttree unlock. 101st: drop to 400 for early game but + 1 or +2 reinforce for late game balance. Old smoke was stupid because it gave also ambush boni to commandos.

it also had negative effect, -50% accuracy.

User avatar
Warhawks97
Posts: 2356
Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 21:45
Location: Germany

Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 14 Feb 2015, 18:59

Sukin-kot (SVT) wrote:
Warhawks97 wrote:Commandos and 101st: smoke should remove suppression longer and vet 3 sprint also. Drop to 400 mp build cost and maybe able to beat volks without need of tecttree unlock. 101st: drop to 400 for early game but + 1 or +2 reinforce for late game balance. Old smoke was stupid because it gave also ambush boni to commandos.

it also had negative effect, -50% accuracy.



before it gave ambush and accuracy boni for all while staying in smoke. No it doesnt makes entirely invisible and accuracy goes down which is realistic as cant see well through it. Means that the smoke was also an offensive bonus and not only having a cover/defensive nature. Even the enfields got ambush bonus suddenly during fight which means that smoke got activated not to escape or cover only for flank moves but simply for pushing firepower. The problem commandos have is that they cost a lot (more as grens) but unable to beat volksgrens unless having vet and weapon upgrades. The next problem is that vet 3 doesnt improves the sprint that it can remove suppression like most other inf units and the smoke itself removes only for max a second the suppression. Their default values need a buff and smoke should remove suppression for a longer time. Vet 3 sprint as well.

User avatar
crimax
Posts: 105
Joined: 07 Dec 2014, 16:01

Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby crimax » 14 Feb 2015, 19:36

The only one Brit doctrine I like to play is RAF.
I should be the first to agree to any suggestions you gave.
I also agree that Commandos are very weak at the moment especially if compared to Wehrmacht units.
Plus, I was the first asked a nerf for what is now commonly named "ninja smoke".

BUT

If, at the same time, we buff Commandos with fast VET; less suppression during ninja-smoke; less MP needed; better weapons; VET 3 no-suppression-sprint; etc. Then we will come back to the days of "Commandos are OP!!".

Anyway, I still don't like an improved ninja-some effect (more suppression or accurancy).

My suggestion here is to try some little modifications first. (I am talking against my interest)

An example ? Less MP costs (-40/-50 MP) and a little better stats + weapon upgrade by tech tree, Stop for now !


........................ and give them Stg (joke).
"We had the best WWII game but we didn't know where to install it. Then we found Company Of Heroes!"

Wake
Posts: 301
Joined: 07 Dec 2014, 17:22
Location: USA

Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Wake » 14 Feb 2015, 20:56

Well with the commandos, I think there is an inherent flaw in their weapon design. The sten squad, after upgrades, gets 2 brens. But these 2 weapons dont mix. The sten is a short range weapon that can be fired while moving. The bren requires infantry to stand still in order to shoot.

So for the upgraded commandos, it's either you stand at long range and have 2 brens but 4 useless stens or you try to assault and get in close with 4 stens firing effectively while the bren gunners don't do anything.

It would make more sense to give the brens to the enfield commandos, because those guys can sit behind cover and deal heavy damage because all of their weapons are suited for medium and long range combat. If the sten commandos got a health boost, it would really reinforce the idea that they are "assault" infantry.

Also, gammon bombs. They are TERRIBLE against vehicles, but their description is that they are AT grenades. In the game, they are actually just really good grenades vs infantry. Are they supposed to be any good vs vehicles? Because they aren't. Likewise, are they supposed to be so good vs infantry? Before KCH got removed, I threw a single gammon bomb and it killed 4 knights cross who were at full health.
Image

User avatar
Warhawks97
Posts: 2356
Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 21:45
Location: Germany

Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 14 Feb 2015, 21:18

crimax wrote:The only one Brit doctrine I like to play is RAF.
I should be the first to agree to any suggestions you gave.
I also agree that Commandos are very weak at the moment especially if compared to Wehrmacht units.
Plus, I was the first asked a nerf for what is now commonly named "ninja smoke".

BUT

If, at the same time, we buff Commandos with fast VET; less suppression during ninja-smoke; less MP needed; better weapons; VET 3 no-suppression-sprint; etc. Then we will come back to the days of "Commandos are OP!!".

Anyway, I still don't like an improved ninja-some effect (more suppression or accurancy).

My suggestion here is to try some little modifications first. (I am talking against my interest)

An example ? Less MP costs (-40/-50 MP) and a little better stats + weapon upgrade by tech tree, Stop for now !


........................ and give them Stg (joke).



i did not say they should get better accuracy while in smoke. It once had been and now its the opposite btw. which is OK.

Vet 3 sprint removes suppressin: Even vet 3 rifles do remove suppression:D So why not commandos? And axis At vet 2 or 3 get seldomly suppressed anyway. Stormtooper can remove suppression with leader squad, assault ability and with sprint when reaching vet 3. So it should be the same for commandos as for all others, or?


Return to “Announcements”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest