Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 16 Feb 2015, 00:16

Hawks, did u forget that btw?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnFo82VbtoQ

Now with the same logic... Can we delay the Tiger tank with more CPs to be required only because u can see on this video that I was actually able to get it 2 times in a row after just 17 minutes? :P It's the map bro, also whether low or high res are selected! ;)

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 16 Feb 2015, 00:44

Tiger1996 wrote:Hawks, did u forget that btw?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnFo82VbtoQ

Now with the same logic... Can we delay the Tiger tank with more CPs to be required only because u can see on this video that I was actually able to get it 2 times in a row after just 17 minutes? :P It's the map bro, also whether low or high res are selected! ;)


old PE doc. Tiger at Duclair at min 13. But thats another story.


Wolf: The supply yard changes suggested aimed actually to the point that allied can beat the early axis Tank IV spam with larger groups of M10 76 shermans. They wouldnt come as early as Tank IV but able to outnumber Tank IV´s quickly when they come to be able to go also into an offensive step after axis got theirs and then able to upgrade supply yard to be ready facing Heavier tanks and the number of axis Tankbusters.

If you say that it is supposed that US do not outspam the Tank IV´s in early-mid stage of the game so that number of TH´s and 76 is about equal to Tank IV´s at that time of the game then the 76 guns need definately more stable results against Tank IV´s when it is not supposed that US can outspam the enemie at that time. Means Tank IV´s come earlier but 76 has stable results against them at least. But keep it that way as it is (no superior number at that time to counter Tank IVßs) by leaving 76 as "lottery weapon" is crap and unbalanced. Then it must rather be equal numbers of 76 against Tank IV´s etc with almost equal chance to beat each other and superior numbers when Tigers and Panthers are coming. the SP simply to somehow deal with numbers of late game very Heavy armor. If you go this way and outnumber tactics not neccessary to deal with early tank IV units then the new changed supply yard cost are acceptable.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Wake » 16 Feb 2015, 01:55

Wolf wrote:@MarKr: me too ;o crusader f.e. is very good with suppression, I was even reducing it a bit few patches back


Whenever I use the crusader I HAVE to back it up with something that can actually kill, like a stuart recce. Because the crusader is so bad at actually killing enemy infantry. It suppresses them just fine, though.

But take this as an example. Axis AT squad tries to attack a crusader. Usually, the crusader will suffer at least one hit, because the AT squad can fire while suppressed, and will usually only lose maybe 1 man before retreating.

Compare this to either of the US quads. They will quite quickly suppress the AT squad and begin killing them very quickly. I had a game where my M15A1 quad (with 37mm gun) got vet 2 simply by killing axis AT squads that tried to attack it. These are super high health wehrmacht AT squads, too. The PE ones just got ripped to shreds, they would easily die before getting in panzershreck range. The wehrmacht squad required kiting.
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 16 Feb 2015, 08:56

I also think that grens with Stg for all docs is too good, my suggestion here:

Terror: Stays same, 65 ammo = 3 mp44
Blitz: 50 ammo = 3 mp40
Defence: 50 ammo = 2 G43

That will underline doc roles, and will be a simply a cool feature, to have different weapon loadout depending on docs roles. (mp44 terror as good all arround but expensive and limited with resourses, BK mp40 as fast rushing doc, and finally defence as G43 which good on long range)

What do you think?

@Mark
Usa quad call 100% is better than crusader and equal to wirbelwind.

@Warhawks
Ye, last 2 battles were really hard, in some moments i thought that we lost. But after patch you will no longer get opportunity to nearly get us, airborne and usa tanks will be pretty badass :D. As for our bk + terror games its true, was easier than easy, how many times we rushed best players with it in 20 mins? (zombie+terence+Shadow or my svt mates, or loki + ursus + fide).

And some notes for remindind devs that 1 day this things must be changed:
- something more usefull instead goliaf price reduction for terror doc (booby traps will fit doc perfectly)
- cheaper propohanda
- crusader manual fire through walls
- yellow round on ground visible for enemie when using Henchel or Thunderbolt patrool
- usa 37mm pak fully functional with 1 man, and, what is more hilarious, this guy have 1000 hp, because its nearly impossible to kill it with K98 on any distance
- (!!!) weapon drop with every 1-2 death of grens\storms\101s\rangers\cqb\stomgrenadiers\volks (!!!)

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 16 Feb 2015, 13:30

Sukin-kot (SVT) wrote:I also think that grens with Stg for all docs is too good, my suggestion here:

Terror: Stays same, 65 ammo = 3 mp44
Blitz: 50 ammo = 3 mp40
Defence: 50 ammo = 2 G43

That will underline doc roles, and will be a simply a cool feature, to have different weapon loadout depending on docs roles. (mp44 terror as good all arround but expensive and limited with resourses, BK mp40 as fast rushing doc, and finally defence as G43 which good on long range)

What do you think?

@Mark
Usa quad call 100% is better than crusader and equal to wirbelwind.

@Warhawks
Ye, last 2 battles were really hard, in some moments i thought that we lost. But after patch you will no longer get opportunity to nearly get us, airborne and usa tanks will be pretty badass :D. As for our bk + terror games its true, was easier than easy, how many times we rushed best players with it in 20 mins? (zombie+terence+Shadow or my svt mates, or loki + ursus + fide).

And some notes for remindind devs that 1 day this things must be changed:
- something more usefull instead goliaf price reduction for terror doc (booby traps will fit doc perfectly)
- cheaper propohanda
- crusader manual fire through walls
- yellow round on ground visible for enemie when using Henchel or Thunderbolt patrool
- usa 37mm pak fully functional with 1 man, and, what is more hilarious, this guy have 1000 hp, because its nearly impossible to kill it with K98 on any distance
- (!!!) weapon drop with every 1-2 death of grens\storms\101s\rangers\cqb\stomgrenadiers\volks (!!!)


ideas sounds good. Add to your list:

-Vets should not reveal units. Srsly this "vet icon" coming up is visisble for the enemie and not seldomly i do spott paks and snipers that way and calling arty from mates. It shouldnt be. This "Tigerphobia" text above enemie units should be removed as well. Suppressing and pinned text that occures above units also reveal units somtimes when hidden units got suppressed by "secundary fire". There is too much shit that reveals hidden units for a moment and all skilled players know that.



About stupa again: With this+5 range you actually want to make this Assult Tank better and stronger. But isnt it a contradiction? The Def doc is simply best in its role as defensive doctrine with very good anti inf, anti air and anti tank weapons and also able to counter most enemie arty with own arty and providing also very good arty support. And then you want to have the Stupa- which is already way better and more dangerous as stuh- even better? So you give the best assault tank to the best defensive doctrine in game? wtf..... ask yourself how much sense this makes, srsly. Along with the powerfull defense there is nothing that can touch the stupa unless enemie uses CW arty. Wolf... thats simply nonesense. Why would there be a need for Bk doc when def doc has a heavier tank (elepahnt) as BK doc has but also a better assault tank+ overall much better arty as BK doc and grens with bet training as good or better as BK docs stormtoopers? 3 Times def doc in a 3 vs 3 and you have very good offensive stuff when going for tanks and gren buff, very good arty when one goes for howitzers, reccons and grille and very good defense when the third one goes for 88 and bunkers. I really dont think that Defensive doc (which offensive power is already as good as inf doc offensive power) gets such a massive Sturmpanzer buffed. Get simply a new doc for Stupa.
Last edited by Warhawks97 on 16 Feb 2015, 13:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Wolf » 16 Feb 2015, 13:39

Warhawks97 wrote:-Vets should not reveal units. Srsly this "vet icon" coming up is visisble for the enemie and not seldomly i do spott paks and snipers that way and calling arty from mates. It shouldnt be. This "Tigerphobia" text above enemie units should be removed as well. Suppressing and pinned text that occures above units also reveal units somtimes when hidden units got suppressed by "secundary fire". There is too much shit that reveals hidden units for a moment and all skilled players know that.

I am not sure if thats possible without removing the kicker absolutely.
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 16 Feb 2015, 13:42

Wolf wrote:
Warhawks97 wrote:-Vets should not reveal units. Srsly this "vet icon" coming up is visisble for the enemie and not seldomly i do spott paks and snipers that way and calling arty from mates. It shouldnt be. This "Tigerphobia" text above enemie units should be removed as well. Suppressing and pinned text that occures above units also reveal units somtimes when hidden units got suppressed by "secundary fire". There is too much shit that reveals hidden units for a moment and all skilled players know that.

I am not sure if thats possible without removing the kicker absolutely.



i dont mind. Is there any specific need for those "cool looking" icons and massive texts except for "looking cool"? And players which wouldnt realize that their units got vets then its their fault. Maybe you can do it like PE has it that players do receive a message on the left part of the screen that a unit got vet. That way players would be always up to date and aware of unit vets without these "big icons" showing up and revealing unit locations for the enemie.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 17 Feb 2015, 02:01

I agree with Hawks about that but hey, I guess no one notified about the random weapons dropping of squads.. this is so annoying thing; Plz fix it like u did with AT teams Wolf if anyhow possible really! They should drop their weapons only when the squads are totally wiped out...

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 22 Feb 2015, 10:55

Add puma to AA fix list, also can shoot thorough walls with manual fire.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 22 Feb 2015, 11:53

You did some changes in RE tect tree so would you mind to unlock first arty churchill->AVRE-> MKVI->MKVIII. It makes little sense to unlock the MKIV with 75 mm antitank gun first when they can have 17 pounders but being unable to fill the role as "breakthrough" doctrine because the neccessary Arty churchills and AVRE´s coming too late. At the time they do come RE is pushed back already by enemie arty and inf. The MKVI just makes so sense so early when MKIV is already there.

Also any idea for the early game arty balance? Yes to more early allied arty or axis early arty delayd? (Higher Tier, FHQ, CP unlocks?)

The tread breaker ability removal? any news?

And why dont you dare to give Stupa as stuh reward to BK doc and stupa available in heavy Tank factory and booth (stuh and stupa) with normal tank ranges and stuh a way cheaper. Just do it as experimantel or whatever..... Make a poll if you want. But why do you want to give such an assault tank in def doc again the ability to outrange any enemie defenses? The Def is then the best def doc, providing very powerfull arty support, anti air and anti tank power and with new buffed stupa even a better offensive doc as TH and Lut doc! Def doc had also a great benefit of Grenadier changes so really which turned it also into a fearfull inf doc... why should people play anything else than def doc anymore?! Games will look like def,def,SE! Stupas and Elephants and Grens pared with Hummels and SE sniper..... Srsly! Consider what you are going to do here, pls!

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 22 Feb 2015, 14:26

Hmm, I can confirm that actually there is something little bit wrong now with the balancing btw as I believe!
Well let's have a look about what we have recently done.. AB with Hellcats, better Allies HMGs, weaker WH AT squads with less HP, even more expensive Tigers, JPs, and JPzs, also more expensive Blitz doc res trades with more recharging time. And then what we get on the other hand?! Just a slightly Jumbo cost increase, and only 1 CP delay for both the SP and the PAce... Alright!
Simply I do have some wonders that are in need of answers really; What would the Terror doctrine player do if his Armor doc opponent player survives the early game?! The Jumbo on the mid game is going to be there with a Command Car behind it while being protected by 2 HE Shermans which are currently capable of already eating WH AT teams o.O
Should he wait for the Tiger until it comes?! The Tiger may somehow even die by that cheap Jumbo which is expected to be having a Vet or 2 Vet points when that Tiger finally comes as that u know the Jumbo will be definitely available earlier on most cases. While with a Command Car it's going to be even tougher and a kind of impossible to beat it using a Vet 0 Tiger tank! Nevertheless that we have to also keep in mind that the US player is going to have at least one Hellcat beside the Jumbo and he will probably have the SP later on the late game with a ridiculous Command Car behind as well. I mean that this way the situation for the WH Terror doctrine player is going to be too difficult since the start and till the end through the whole game period indeed.

I would highly suggest and recommend considering this subject for the only MP costing early effective Jumbo to become more expensive of about 1000 MP or at least 950 MP and to also reduce the cost of the poor Terror doc Pz4s.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Wolf » 22 Feb 2015, 14:49

I am really going to stop replying, because I really can't take this anymore. Look at what you write guys and think about it.

Warhawks FFS, on one hand you tell us how blitz is uber, with 12 minute PZIVs, stormtroopers, TAce and whatever... and yet you want to add Stupa to it and that everybody will play only def doc now. OMG, no, just STOP IT. Some of you said like stupa is currently not played at all, so +5 range and suddenly EVERYBODY will play stupa? NO. And even if, then it means they will not have grille. Stupa still has reduced accuracy especially against moving stuff. No, there will not be only def doc games (yeah, don't forget to make one, to PROVE ME WRONG..). Just stop with this. BK will not get stupa, because it already has a lot of stuff to use, period. And no, def doc won't be the only played, because of stupa -.-, was it before, when def doc had 100% and +10 stupa range? 2 Grilles, unlimited MG bunkers, unlimited howitzers? No.

Terror was always about KCH - now grenadiers, with 3 MP44 free they are still good force for pretty early CP. Terror was never about PZIVs, so why the hell should it now be somewhat in big disadvantage. Their Tiger got very slight price increase, other than that nothing. Otherwise terror is about big cats, flame abilities, currently with pretty good st zu fuss. Grenadiers + their training is main KCH battle force, with KT and Panther G. It was always like that. And again, the bloody 2 nebels are not used ONLY AGAINST DEFENSE, I dont understand where the hell did you get that, VT is used all the time with 2 nebels, against almost everything that player wants, so again, stop that "2 nebels are useless in late game". Also terror is not going to get booby traps, we already have more booby trap units then I'd like.

About allied vs axis changes I agree that there are a lot more allied "buffs" than on axis, however a lot of it is what was simply needed, by that I mean better allied HMGs f.e. Did jeep .30 had any suppression? No, did motorbike? Yes. Should I then make motorbike even better? No. How many times did you notice that HMG is being inadequate on forums? A lot of times, and so buffing it is not a reason to "give something to axis too". The 1 CP for PAce and SP wasn't even needed imo, that was more of a well, I can live with that. JPz etc, trade prices were changed because again, did you see all the "why does TH have more tankhunters that they will ever need"? Which is something I agree with, TH had prices set too low, for tankhunters with 2 shot camos. Basically only threat to them are units with stickies (if you play it well, with camo), so another factor, that will depend a lot on map choice, I wouldn't take TH to city maps, on the other hand, open field maps are ideal for TH. With trade changes and supply yard changes, fuel should be more even between docs.

One group here tells us how PZIVs are so undestroyable by even 76es, so they probably should have quite a big price mark. And another group tells us how PZIVs are too expensive. Not mentioning these who still write me change this change that, and you would be surprised what other players than current forum users have to say -.-

But again, to all, stop telling me these unbelievable stories, how only one doctrine will be played, that Terror will be doomed etc. The changes are not THAT big to cause that, if even a bit.

@Puma: ok, thx

@Weapon drops its bit more complicated, due to which weapon should we drop, when they bought MG + MP44 etc. as it seems that we can't change position and drop both next to each other. So I know about it, want to do it, but did not figured out yet how to do it.

@MKVI, I was thinking about removing that tree option and make MKVI possible without upgrade, but not yet decided. One possibility is also AVRE<-MKVI->Arty->Croc with more CPs
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby panther7 » 22 Feb 2015, 15:26

Some new units?

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 22 Feb 2015, 15:44

Well Wolf, to my points.. I can see absolutely no contradiction about what is said considering or regarding the Pz4s!! I am speaking only of the Pz4s which are belonging to the Terror doctrine.. they are not anyhow like the ones of Blitz doc, am I wrong??!! Aren't they much weaker with no armor skirts neither turret MGs??!! I know that Terror is not about Pz4s but, if a player anytime with this current Terror doc Pz4 cost decides to deploy out one from there then it's going to be a forbidden mistake paying 70 fuel for nothing! I would even rather to totally remove that Pz4 from Terror doc then but anyways, it's not something that I am really insisting on; I can live with it though!! ^^ As that also I didn't say that the Terror doctrine is going to be doomed this way but I was meaning a certain different point while believing and suggesting that the Jumbo should be costing even slightly more while not objecting about any of the already made changes! But maybe I am wrong... Whatever :)

@panther7;
Probably u could try the upcoming historical Afrika Korps add on for the Bk mod if u were really looking for any new stuff or units I mean, it's going to include some of these.. ;)
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=307&view=unread#unread

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Wake » 22 Feb 2015, 16:04

Panzer IV:

There are a bunch of versions, but most of them are OK for now, as these, the F2 and all the short-barreled versions are very easily destroyed by all allied anti tank weapons. The Blitzkrieg Doc Panzer IV's on the other hand, are not only much cheaper than the others, but are much better, to the point of sometimes bouncing shells from 76 AT Guns and Shermans, and bazookas being not a very safe choice against them. They also get an MG42 on top and sideskirts, which make them even stronger and much deadlier.

Jeep and Allied Early Game:

Good job, Wolf, with the suppresion addition. I hope the jeep won't be as useless now. But I have a couple more suggestions. Currently, no one ever uses the 2nd tier jeeps in normal res games (50 cal, armored 50 cal, and recoiless rifle jeeps). This is because they require the WSC to be built, and honestly there are better units that you can spend your money on at that point in the game. I only see the jeeps in high res games and most of the time, they are there to try and stop the endless onslaught of bikes, schwimms, and scout cars in high res games.

The thing is with the jeeps, they aren't very good for their cost. I would consider the schwimmwagen to be better than the 50 cal jeep, right? It has a VERY deadly weapon, the same amount of health, can repair, and depending on doc, can booby trap points, mark units, or lay mines. Yet the schwimmwagen costs LESS at 250 MP vs the more expensive but worse 50 cal jeep at 280 MP. Then you also have the 320 MP Armored 50 cal jeep, which is quite expensive when you consider that it can die to a scout car very easily.

I stand by my suggestion to make the 2nd tier of jeeps available from the start, without any WSC requirement. You ALWAYS see bikes, schwimms, and scout cars pushing around the allied side of the map looking for helpless riflemen or lieutenants to kill. Do you ever see that with a jeep? No, because a jeep can't even kill a kettenkrad before it escapes, while a bike can catch riflemen in the open and murder them all as they retreat.

Please, do this. Allies have very little pushing power in early game. A major contributor to this is that they are 100% limited to their boys AT or 37mm AT gun due to the bulletproof scout car. I think the scout car is the most OP unit in the game, but it can stay for now as long as the allies get more options to defend against it. The 2nd tier jeeps are a decent way to fend them off, but those come too late. The 37mm AT gun can often be circle-strafed by a scout car, and boys AT shoots so slow and inaccurately I've seen scout cars drive straight up to them and kill the entire squad. The thing is, in early game, if the AT gun or Boys squad dies then the scout car controls the entire map.

Add on top of this, the MG42 HMG squad is so damn deadly. It pisses me off every single time to see that I have a Vickers or 30 cal MG inside a house, and a MG42 team sets up OUTSIDE OF THE HOUSE, the entire time being shot at, and is able to KILL THE ALLIED MG TEAM INSIDE THE HOUSE. Then, if axis infantry are in heavy cover (even volks), they will not be suppressed by any allied MG. At the same time, if rifles are in heavy cover, the 2nd or 3rd burst will have them on the ground cowering for their lives. It's a combination of so many things, but another important one is that EVEN IF THE ALLIED MG CAN SUPPRESS THE AXIS, they are often in their ridiculously long grenade range!

The cries of Axis being OP are true. I avoid playing allies now because of it. There is more than enough proof. Go back to this forum and the old forum and see the dozens of Axis OP threads. Then look in game and see all the lobbies of 3 axis players waiting for someone to come and play allies...
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Wolf » 22 Feb 2015, 16:12

I can't support .50 cal jeeps being buildable without WSC, especially since WSC cost was decreased... and honestly don't think that they are worse than schwimms. I prefer HR games and like you said, its built there (a lot actually) and I feel that I usually have advantage against axis in this early mtb/schwimm/jeep fight. If they were available without WSC, you would simply not build .30 cal, because .50 is just much better and giving it bigger cost would make it overpriced again.
About scout car - bren will be much more bulletproof too now, so this advantage will be more even in PE and CW. I don't think that 37mm and AT boys are not enough to push out scout cars, axis might now have the same problem with brens, we will see, they will probably focus more on early AT, which should balance it. This is pretty hard to predict now and few games won't tell you.
About .30 cal from house, that depends, I was pretty surprised and I started to use them more, as it doesn't seem that off, it was pretty sucessful against grens and other units.
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Wake » 22 Feb 2015, 17:01

The 30 cal/vickers vs MG42 argument is that:

1 MG42 stops an entire american infantry division

1 Allied MG will lose to volks behind sandbags at long range
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Wolf » 22 Feb 2015, 17:48

We will see what the patch will do to the early balance. You also have to count +80 MP and +10 munni on axis MG.

@Tiger: mhhh.. okay, I will make pziv a bit cheaper.

@New units: no, no new units.
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 22 Feb 2015, 19:59

About HMG´s. A mate recently did at the end of the game a little joke with inf doc having 6 trucks with each 4 inf squads. Means 24 inf squads and at least 8 ranger squads and they all got blobbed but fucked up against a single MG42 on a field (later by a tank IV in second attempt). Two Volks with some light cover have quite easy job with allied HMG´s on distance. Its funny, you can test it.


About jeeps and bren carrier. Thing is that brens and dingos are usually ignored by axis inf, regardless of how good armor is and even then 37 mm paks and 28 mm as mobile defense and offense unit will have little job. So what exactly is the point of only buff the armor? I had 2 dingos shooting me but i didnt care at all. I had yellow cover with two volks squads. The volks survived the fire of two dingos long enough that i could build a pak and bring them to front. Also i can scare them away sometimes running at them and doing a "fake" molotov assault. We did further test games and depending who shoots first at what the bike can have a chance vs jeep at mid/close range. Sometimes 2-3 bursts of jeep dealing no damage to bike for some reason. Also we did another test. Schwimm max distance vs 6 rifles green cover. Result was that the rifles squad lost 5 men and schimm at low HP. Means schwimm vs rifles at max range and green cover is a draw. Booth must retreat. The Jeep vs PGrens and green cover max range. The Grens suffered 0 damage but killing the Jeep very fast. In fact the Pgrens killed the jeep three times as fast as rifles killed the schwimmwagen and suffering no damage at all while rifles lost 5 of 6 men.


Thing is the early game set up doc combination. Allied stuck behind cover untill vehicles do come or if the axis wasted his vehicles stupidly in paks. And nobody runs in fog in early game as allied to check and test enemie defense while axis can do so all the time. So allied stuck at first behind cover and arround the paks and axis get then first movable mortar. And when allied get vehicles axis have better vehicles and paks everyhwere but also tank IV´s of BK doc soon and neblers of luft and terror doc are also quickly fielded. So allied need to wait again and just act defensively against all the tanks and schrecks and jumbo is a too valuable unit mostly to be wasted in a offense. But at the same time axis getting their arty which makes Jumbo even more important to reinforce the defensive lines. Its this which makes the first 20 mins as axis in teamfights usually a lot easier. Field domination with less units, enemie movment denying right at start, faster getting domination tier units and earlier arty. So comebacks as allied after first 15 mins are really hard.



About Stupa: have you ever considered why it is not often used in def doc? because grille fits better in the way def doc is beeing played: def, stuff, more, def stuff, arty support. An assault tank makes simply little sense. A unit that is being used in a doc it is not made for means that this single unit must be so effective that it works as one unit army. And the "prob" with bk doc is the early fielded Tank IV domination with continues production. If it would dominate for a while it wouldnt be much of a prob but domination is lasting untill Terror gets easily walking stukas and Panther G´s. And i said reduce range of stuhs and and stupas to tank range and stupa available for bk doc in heavy tank factory. So It would be less likely that Stupa would come right with Tank IV´s and then it would be counterable. BK doc with outrange stupa would be OP for sure.

So is it really only "to make stupa (STURMPANZER, assault tank) more preferable to grille? Or is there any other good reason for it? And really whats the point that DEFENSIVE doc as the most powerfull assault Tank?

And i had games facing double def or playing double def doc. It works pretty well btw. Even better as i did ever expected.


So... poll? (Stupa with more range as paks in def doc or stupa and stuh with normal tank range in BK doc and stupa as reward for stuh and later available. Like having a choice for early game/mid game strenght or rather in late game. Stuhs combined with Tank IV´s but not so good for late game or Tigers+ Stupa for better late game offensive power.) Let the community decide.

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Wolf
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Wolf » 22 Feb 2015, 21:17

I wanted to reply with a long post.. but I just won't, you just don't stop, doesn't matter what anybody said, you just decided, that you want stupa in BK doc, so you will find anything just to be there. And omg NO, when I make one poll, it doesn't mean I will poll anything, already said that like hundred times.

Nobody said, that brens/dingos got only armor changed and EVEN IF they would still have problem with infantry, tell that to schwimms/cycles. Jeep got suppression, that will make it better overall for stopping infantry.
Other changes are also mostly pro-allied, so how about just wait instead of "only def doc will be played because stupa" (funny btw. there were lot of "def doc is now useless, nobody will play it" when I reduced perma mg bunkers -.-, but again, what to expect on forums). Stupa is not most powerful attack tank, since it doesn't have 100% accuracy.
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Warhawks97
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 22 Feb 2015, 22:14

Wolf wrote:I wanted to reply with a long post.. but I just won't, you just don't stop, doesn't matter what anybody said, you just decided, that you want stupa in BK doc, so you will find anything just to be there. And omg NO, when I make one poll, it doesn't mean I will poll anything, already said that like hundred times.

Nobody said, that brens/dingos got only armor changed and EVEN IF they would still have problem with infantry, tell that to schwimms/cycles. Jeep got suppression, that will make it better overall for stopping infantry.
Other changes are also mostly pro-allied, so how about just wait instead of "only def doc will be played because stupa" (funny btw. there were lot of "def doc is now useless, nobody will play it" when I reduced perma mg bunkers -.-, but again, what to expect on forums). Stupa is not most powerful attack tank, since it doesn't have 100% accuracy.



as assault tanks or better "Sturmpanzer" are meant stuhs and stupa. And who said def doc wont be played just because of "only" two perman MG Bunker. I am facing def in pretty much every game or at least very often. Also you said Bk doc would have "everything"... I cant fight 88, howitzers etc..... If you make stupa usefull in a def doc by enabling it to bomb the enemie with 150 mm shells from save distance for free then def doc will really have everything except Tigers and Panthers.... But who needs Tiger when there is a even better armor Elephant or Panther when there is a Tank with panther gun just with ambush. In fact def doc would really have everything except strong medium tanks. BK doc would still miss very heavy tanks, pioneers with improoved repairs, 88 guns and strong fortifications, howitzers, off map arty... and so on. I am suggesting BK doc as this is together with Terror the main offensive Axis doc and an assault tank is..... For offensives? or am i wrong.


I will stop btw. when i know what an assult tank with 150 mm gun and 110 mm frontal armor makes in a defensive doctrine and esspecially a one that outranges any other unit in this game.
Last edited by Warhawks97 on 22 Feb 2015, 22:20, edited 1 time in total.

Wake
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Wake » 22 Feb 2015, 22:15

One more important thing, BUGS!

-Dingo is bugged, it does almost no damage
-Bren Carrier with Boys AT makes the bren do 0 damage
-Bren Carrier with a 2nd bren makes the first bren do 0 damage, similar to above, so that this is a 100% useless upgrade due to the bug

Also, the Wasp Flamethrower Bren is insanely overpriced. It costs 400 MP and 15 Fuel. A sherman crocodile costs just 25 more MP, and the flame hetzer costs the same MP.

Could we also look at the Cromwell? In my hundreds of games I've NEVER seen anyone build it - probably because it is a terrible unit. It's not much better than a sherman vs tanks and is practically useless vs infantry. A stuart recce kills infantry faster than the cromwell.

Another, is that the scout car can have a destroyed engine and still move.
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby MarKr » 22 Feb 2015, 22:45

One more important thing, BUGS!

-Dingo is bugged, it does almost no damage
-Bren Carrier with Boys AT makes the bren do 0 damage
-Bren Carrier with a 2nd bren makes the first bren do 0 damage, similar to above, so that this is a 100% useless upgrade due to the bug


What I did to Bren weaponry: initial Bren lmg has tweaked accuracy, damage and lenght of burst, however reloads more often and slightly longer (same applies to Dingo Bren lmg - basically same weapons now)

The MG upgrade gives to Bren carrier actual Vickers (not another Bren lmg) - however I removed the pintle Bren lmg since it was useless there and bugged a lot for some reason

Also, the Wasp Flamethrower Bren is insanely overpriced. It costs 400 MP and 15 Fuel. A sherman crocodile costs just 25 more MP, and the flame hetzer costs the same MP.

Sherman Croc costs 425MP and 60 Fuel
Flammen hetzer costs 400MP 60 Fuel
So yes, MP difference but fuel is much different...
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Wake
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Wake » 22 Feb 2015, 23:16

MarKr wrote:Sherman Croc costs 425MP and 60 Fuel
Flammen hetzer costs 400MP 60 Fuel
So yes, MP difference but fuel is much different...


But what other light vehicle costs as much MP as a tank? None.
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Warhawks97
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.6.0 Changelog Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 23 Feb 2015, 00:11

Wake wrote:
But what other light vehicle costs as much MP as a tank? None.


Puma with 50 mm cost more as Stug III:P There are some vehicles that cost more as the Stug III^^


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