MarKr wrote:
- Changed accuracy on the move penalty for Allied tanks to 0.6 (from 0.5; applied to tanks which historically had stabilizers)
for all allied tank? Bc i think brits tanks might become a bit OP since their 17 pdr gun pen most tanks easily from the front. Not sure if brits used gyro stabilizers for their tanks.
i just wanted to make a topic about guns accuracy.
I have had games recently in which i sorrounded a german Jagdpanzer IV/70 with 3 tanks. 1 M10, 1 76 sherman and 1 e8 sherman shooting from all sides. The e8 was within grenade range already, m10 and 76 were at range i would consider roughly mid range but still damn close.
Guess what? All three tanks failed to hit with first shot.... wasted HVAP´s, nice.
So i wanted to make suggestions here but had no will to do so yesterday.
So:
1. Buff axis Tank guns from panther to KT accuracy from 0.75 to 0.9 (or 0.85) max range (0.9 medium). Panther and Tiger guns already got this accuracy, Jagpanther, KT and others still have low 75% accuracy for max range.
2. Lower axis tank gun accuracy on the move by 60% (0.4 modifier instead of 0.5).
3. Increase mid range accuracy of allied tanks (76 mm and 17 pdr) from 0.75 to 0.85.
4. The accuracy drop for US tanks on the move reduced from 50% to 30%. (from 0.5, in this patch 0.6, to 0.65. For e8 from 0.75 to 0.8.
-> short calculation for max range accuracy on the move axis/allis. 0.9x0.4= 36%. 0.75x0.65=48,75%. (E8= 60%). But most importantly is the mid range change in accuracy and accuracy drop on the move. Now it is 0.75x0.5=0,375. VS axis tds its much lower. That means that i had many occassions in which i bypassed and flanked axis td with 2-3 tanks and drove by veeeery close but all my tanks, even veted tanks, just failed to hit the tank which almost already touched the side of the tank. That was just hilarious. Even max vet e8 failed to make a good hit.
So the mid range accuracy change along with less accuracy drop on the move would be: 0.85x0.65=55,25%. (vs german Jagdpanzers below 50% due to their tt).
That should help avoid to get your ass kicked even though you made a perfect flanking/close in from side manevuer with your tank which i get told to to in every second discussion about axis vs allied tank or rather US vs axis armor. I just get pissed when i manage to do so successfully in several occassions in a game and still having no chance in a 1 vs 3 bc my tanks just fail. Tbh i do belive that german jagdpanzers should be harder to hit due to their low silhouete, but i think the current state i just shit. my current chance to hit these tanks with my tanks, even when i am standing almost in grenade range, is just 56,25%. Thats hilarious. You should see that in games. You have to take it with a lot of humor when you see three tanks very close to one enemie shooting from all directions and non of them is even hitting the target.
US:
- 37mm gun now provides light cover to the crew (applied yellow cover because with green the crew suffers from immortality syndrome)
wasnt that already the case? i am pretty sure it was. Sometimes the cover icon disappeared completely and the crew died within one second from an lmg burst.
- Lowered the HP of M26 Pershing to 850 (from 1000)
- Lowered the HP of Pershing Ace to 1050 (from 1200)
Good, you put it into a medium tank role. I am fine with it. Could you pls do the same with Jagdpanther? I dont see a reason to treat it like a heavy tank with 1000 HP (+ Zimmerit) and i even think it takes less damage from arty than most other tanks (perhaps it got changed with latest arty change). Put it pls on same HP lvl as normal Panther.
CW:
- It should be no longer possible to glitch Tulip rockets so that the second one is "guided" at the target
lol, i didnt even now that glitch.
WM:
- Cost of Early Tiger tank lowered to 840MP (from 950MP)
- Cost of Late Tiger tank lowered to 865MP (from 975MP)
- Cost of Tiger Ace lowered to 1370MP (from 1550MP)
- Lowered the cost of Heavy tank factory to 300MP (from 400MP)
Really? Srsly, really? As far as i can remember people would have been OK with CP cost drop in order to be earlier available and with making a doctrine that is centered arround tiger tanks with good support stuff.
Now you kept the tigers as "normal stuff you can get if you want to" in doctrines which have plenty of other very powerfull stuff.
Really, i can await to see tigers spammed like Pershings supported by Ostwinds or Firestorm off map strikes.
Also do you really belive that a Tiger is so much worse than a pershing although both are simiiar effective and resistant/vulnerable to each other factions weaponary?
A Tiger is now as cheap as a Pershing but retains its 1000 HP, 90% accuracy at max range and vet long range shot.
Glorious. There aint be fun to see Tigers spammed arround like Pershings from no- brainers that have totally forgotten that tanks need Infantry support (which is the main reason of all these "super tank failures" aka Jagdtiger, KT, Super Pershing, Elephant and such).
If you screen a tiger just with volks, it can be hell effective and a huge pain. Providing long range one-shot capabilties with superb accuracy and able to tank severel pen shot hits.
The direct Buffs tiger already received since debate broke out:
1. First cost drop when you took over controle of BK.
2. Gun damage buff
3. Gun range buff
4. Gun accuracy Buff
5. Now second cost drop.
(perhaps i forgot a few)
Indirect buffs:
1. HE shots hit their targets (which made esspecially big calibre guns very dangerous)
2. All AP shots dont gain extra damage anymore. Guns like 17 pdr max damage with AP thus dropped from 812,5 to 650 damage. Means you need more often 3 shots instead of 2 pen hits with 17 pdr to kill it
3. Ambush standardisation with damage/pen drop. Thus 17 pdrs dont deal 975 damage anymore from ambush. With AP and ambush the max damage dropped from 1218,75 to 812,5! Means Tiger got from "regularly oneshoted from 17 pdr ambush" to "immune to 17 pdr oneshot" (unless you trigger 5% chance.)
4. That being said, the 17 pdr was the main threat of Tigers which got nerfed massively by Ambush nerf and AP shot nerf.
5. Shermans got more expensive (along with HP buff but thats neutralized by higher gun damage for tiger)
6. Now Heavy Tank depot dropped in cost
Dont you think you gonna overdo it? I already see how one tiger comes after the other, replacing tank IV´s and stugs instead of supporting/working with them. Just awesome.
You put a heavy tank, which benefits from everything a heavy tank has (like HP, range), into a medium tank cost section. It becomes a competetor to the Panther rather than being itself special.
You should have made the Tiger to be a early heavy tank (similiar to churchills) which gets replaced by KT later on instead going again that -in my opinion- "i am too lazzy" way and drop cost down into nowhere. We wanted Tigers to be special (by time of availability, abilities, stats, doctrine unlocks etc). But the last anyone wanted was to get them as cheap trash (special gift) within doctrines that arent really lacking anything so far. Now they got just another cheap "throw arround" thing to satisfy kids that cant support tanks properly and which remain half of their time in a "close zoom in perspective" to see their beloved tanks in detail and to hear the sound.
The big reason tiger was considered so usless was bc the doctrines this tank stucks in have so much (better) stuff already.
Why are you always putting one such thing in a changelog. Everything here (and most of the previous patches) was like: "nice change". But then always one such step "backward". I mean what spoke against a 3 CP Tiger? Why do you want to keep the tiger so valuable for late games where tons of other stuff is already available... and that at all cost? There are already Panthers, King Tigers, Jagdpanthers....
Its like you have created some sort of "Heavy tank on discount"..... Like a "Ferrari Volkswagen" to make sure everyone can purchase at least one elite tank in the late game, even those with extrodianry bad ressource managment.
I feel a little bit like when G.W. Bush announced: "Eveyone can now be a first time house buyer" (or something like that). It ended in the crisis of 2008... Now we see an "inflation of Tiger Tanks".
Thank you!
PE:
- PE double AT nade requires "Experienced AT crews (upgrade 03)" should be "Double AT efforts (upgrade_32)"
- Observation Halftrack should no longer switch places with PaK40 in Logistikompanie
- Removed Periscope upgrade from Flammenhetzer (was forgotten when Periscopes were removed)
- Added 15 Fuel cost to Vampire Halftrack (from 0 Fuel)
- Vampire Halftrack now requires Logistic Company Upgrade
thx. But upgrade 03? Sure? So we throw two nades now when unlocking second Panzerschreck right?
The next plan is to actually start working on doctrine reworks starting with an experimental pilot patch that will test the mechanisms used to balance doctrine reworks, then incremental updates that will work through a full doctrine reworks across all factions and other balance adjustments.
sounds good. But can you pls put biggest attention to somehow create a doctrine in which the Tiger can shine up instead of just making them cheap? I would wish to keep normal Tiger cost but in return have it earlier available (3 CP, max 4) and perhaps doctrinal stuff that is focused n supporting Tigers.
Tigers do not deserve to be handled like trash.
The patch is available on the BK mod Beta branch (
here is a guide for beta access), if everything will be OK, it will be switched to live version in few days.
Ok, but hopefully not with this tiger cost. Perhaps you make a second beta after this one, revert tiger cost back to what we are used to and instead splitting the tank unlocks so that tigers and Panthers dont sit in the same line. Both would use Tank IV as basis but one line goes Tiger-> Tiger ace/KT, the other just for the Panther and nothing else. Panther would require more CP and more tec. Perhaps the Tank depot unlock, that unlocks Panther/KT and Ace etc would require not just fuel, but also MP. So the heavy tank depot would cost 300-350 and the upgrade 50-100 MP (and its 75 fuel). That way it could become very feasible for players to rush for tigers for a few CP and low tec cost and first after that switching over to long term investments in preparation for late game.
Edit:
Pls take a look at all Jagdpanzer IV models and their received accuracy. They are extremely broken. For example the def doc Jagdpanzer IV/48 is much harder to hit than those from PE. When i take a 76 sherman for example t has 63,75% accuracy vs PE Jagdpanzer IV but only 47,8 vs WH def doc.
Also The Jagdpanzer IV/70 is harder to hit than a hetzer or PE Jagdpanzer IV48 (56,25% for IV/70 vs 63,75% for hetzer).
Also pls take a look at upkeep for the Jagdpanther.
i dont understand you. 