5.1.6 Patch

[MarKr]

Hello to all of you.

Today we bring you the new 5.1.6 update. If you have followed the beta versions you know what the update brings but if you haven't here is a quick summary.

There are some changes to the rear penetration chances introduced in 5.1.5 - basically the short 75mm guns on both sides have less penetration chance against heavier units and now when you hit the rear armor there will be a text displayed which will help you tell if the stupid 50mm gun destroyed your Tiger "frontally" or not.

There is also a follow up on the arty changes introduced last time - some further tweaks were applied where necessary and the hit-zone pattern has been adjusted a bit so that artillery hits in a bit wider area rather than in a line.
Now specifically to Hotchkiss arty - the arty has been nerfed in several places:
1) It is available later because the upgrade now requires Panzer-support building
2) The tank itself is slower with the rockets so it should be easier to hunt it down
3) There can be only 2 Hotchkisses with rocket upgrade at a time
4) The scatter area of the barrage is significantly bigger which means that the rockets land farther away from each other, leaving less chance for targets to get hit by several rockets at once
5) The rockets have been tweaked so that they no longer have 100% chance to instantly kill any infantry in AoE
In the end we decided that these nerfs are enough and the price of the barrage remained unchanged. In the beta the answer of players to bigger scatter was to build more Hotchkisses and shoot more rockets, this is not possible now with the limit of 2 so it should be enough. The rockets will still most likely kill any infantry in the AoE that has no cover and only when farther away from the center of the explosion AND in cover the infantry has some chance to survive the hit. The rockets are no longer super strong against tanks and vehicles and the infantry is the only thing that the rockets can reliably kill. If the rockets become "meh" against infantry too, there will be no point in building the unit at all.

Another significant change is the effect of flamethrowers at soldier inside bunkers and buildings - the flamethrowers have about 80% chance to instantly kill all the soldiers. This way the upgrade can be useful but still you need to get close with the flamethrower to use it and the infantry that has these upgrades are mostly basic engineers or pioneers which are quite easy to suppress or kill - so bringing some MG team or fast-pinning unit to cover the approaches might be useful against them.

Then you will notice quite a big change in mortars. They no longer cost ammo to build but their barrages now cost ammo to fire and the normal (automatic) fire has longer delays between each shot. You can still order to the mortar to "attack ground" so make them continually bombard required area but if you want to send somewhere 6 shots very quickly, you need to pay for the barrage.

Further change with quite some impact is efficiency of .50cal MGs and overall the efficiency of hull, coaxial and top MGs. There have been complaints for ages about "50.cals being pea-shooters" and that "they don't perform realistically" etc. etc. etc. So now these MGs have capacity to penetrate and damage lightly armored vehicles. Their accuracy at longer ranges is slightly higher as well as their rate of fire, on the other hand most vehicles (Shermans, Greyhound, Staghound...) now require you to upgrade the MG first. This makes some diversity between Allies and Axis where Axis have the top MGs pre-installed and are more effective against infantry but Allies need to upgrade the MGs to get them but with the vehicles also gain some more firepower against vehicles.
Along with these changes there are also changes applied to hull and coaxial MGs. The changes are most noticeable when the targeted infantry has no cover and is quite close to the tank. In cover the infantry is relatively safe but it should be no longer possible to sprint with an AT weapon infront of a tank, fire a shot, reload, fire again and retreat while (barely) losing 1 soldier.

WM and PE has now changed the halftracks and armored cars armed with 75mm short cannon. These units have been changed and now after upgrade they can use HE mode (instead of "timed HE") and instead of Wolfram ammo (which was sort of useless due to very low basic penetration values) these vehicles can now fire HEAT/B shot which can reliably penetrate medium tanks.

On the side of Allies you will surely notice that Rangers are no longer available to every doctrine and they became limited to infantry doctrine only. Since they are no longer present in every US doctrine, we could transform them into a real elite infantry.

Last, perhaps not big but surely interesting, change is that Goliaths are now easier accessible - WM can build them in Kriegsbarracks and PE in Logistic Kompanie buildings + they can still be dropped from munition halftracks (PE) and in Def doc from 28mm halftracks too. They deal better damage to most targets and have a sligthly bigger AoE so they can make a nasty surprise if you don't have proper recon in the area.

There are many other changes but I will leave those for you to discover in the changelog below.

We hope you'll enjoy this one and, as always, any feedback is welcomed.

Changes:
General:
- Added PE markings on Bergetiered and Ammunition Halftrack
- Made changes to various howitzer artillery pieces to make the shells hit a "circular" area rather than "line"
- Corrected AoE range brackets for several artillery units
- Barrage AoE UI indicator (the yellow circle) should now get properly bigger with range (the farther you shoot, the bigger the UI - to more accurately indicate the hit zone)
- Lowered the rear/side penetration chance of 75mm guns (Shermans, Cromwells, Churchills) against Tigers (max range 25%), King Tigers (15%) and Jagdtiger (5%)
- Lowered front penetration chance of 75mm guns (Shermans, Cromwells, Churchills) against StuG III/IV (max range 23%; 14% with skirts)
- Lowered the rear/side penetration chance of Axis Stubby 75mm guns against Churchills (max range 10%), Croc Churchill (5%), Jumbo (35%), Pershings (25%) SP (15%)
- Returned a kicker message when game registers a rear penetration on a vehicle (it says now "Weak armor point penetrated" to prevent confusion with pure "rear armor" hits)
- Changed aim times for snipers 0.75 - 1.25 second (from 0.25; on average it is +1 second but it can be slightly less or more)
- Doubled delay between shots for all mortars (including morter Halftracks; barrage abilities keep their fire rate)
- Mortar smoke barrage abilities now fire 10 smoke shells per barrage (from 7)
- Flamethrowers now have 80% chance to insta-kill occupants of a building, trench or emplacement when they hit them with the flamethrower
- Captured 50mm PaK38 should now deal correct damage to all Axis tanks
- Tweaked hull and coaxial MGs on vehicles to be a bit more useful
- Tweaked Top MGs on vehicles (to compensate for better performance of hull and coaxial MGs)
- General tweaks to .50cals (a bit more accurate, a bit higher RoF, can penetrate light armor)
- Removed damage bonus from all AP abilities
- AP abilities now cost 50ammo to activate (from 75ammo)
- Using HEAT/B or HEAT/C abilities should no longer cause very long (5+ seconds) delay before the shot
- Fixed wrong penetration values when shooting HEAT/B and HEAT/C (in some cases HEAT/B had higher penetration chances than HEAT/C)
- The range of HEAT/B and HEAT/C set to 50 as intended (from 60)
- Vision range of flak36 88mm corrected to 60 (from 85; the actual weapon range remains at 85 but to get the range some other unit will have to extend the view range)
- The AP ammo of flak36 88mm should now be less accurate against infantry
- The HE ammo of flak36 88mm should no longer deal too much damage to tanks
- Construction cone of fire of MG nests should now more accurately correspond with actual the cone of fire when the MG nest is finished
- Removed ammo price from mortar teams
- JPIV L70 damage increased to 100-130 (from 80-120; same gun as Panther gun so same damage)
- Increased Goliath AoE to 10 (from 8)
- Increased damage done to vehicles by Goliath
- Goliath now has higher chance to detrack vehicles and to damage or destroy engines
- Lowered sight range of Goliath to 20 no matter if it is static or moving (from 60 (static) and 40 (moving))
- Goliaths can be detected at at range of 5 now (from 3)
- Fixed a bug where LeiG18 used wrong ammo for barrage which was significantly weaker than its direct-shooting ammo
- All static howitzers (US/WM 105mm, 25 pounder) now fire 8 shots per barrage (from 6)
- All static howitzers (US/WM 105mm, 25 pounder) now reload in 3-4 seconds (from 6-7)

US:
- Stuart no longer needs to buy upgrade to use HE mode (activation: 15 ammo, needs to wait at least 20 seconds to switch back to AP)
- Riflegrenade upgrade is no longer mutually exlusive with other Riflemen weapon upgrades
- Increased the range of HEAT riflegrenade to 60
- Fixed a bug where the "Straffing raid" ability in AB HQ (converted from neutral building) would dissapear after upgrading the AP bullets
- Fixed missing sandbags on M16 in AA mode
- Fixed wrong range brackets of Riflemen M1 Garand
- Tweaked the cooldown of Ranger M1 Garand to 1.5-1.75 (from 1.75)
- Tweaked the cooldown of Ranger M1 Garand at closer ranges
- 60mm mortar barrage cost set to 15 ammo
- 80mm mortar barrage cost set to 25 ammo
- 80mm mortar barrage describtion no longer uses the texts of 60mm mortar
- Fixed a bug where US medics (built in Triage centers) were limited to 1 squad instead of 2
- Medic team (deployed from Triage center) no longer reinforces anywhere with paradrop
- Moved "Medkit" ability of Fortified Observation Point (Infantry doctrine) to slot 8 (from 12) to avoid ability clipping with garrisoned infantry
- Fixed a model bug on M3 Halftrack
- Fixed the range brackets on .30cal Jeep so that the effectiveness does not drop so fast
- Lowered the Veterancy XP requirements of Stuart and Chaffee to 12/24/48/96 (from 25/55/90/135)
- M10 with Bulldozer upgrade will no longer have the "Bulldozer balde" ability visible when camoed (so players can use the "hold fire" ability when in camo)
- Top mount .50cal is now an upgrade for most vehicles (30 - 35 ammo)
- Basic Ranger HP increased by 10
- "Ranger Training" unlock in Infantry doctrine no longer adds +10HP to Rangers
- "Ranger Training" unlock in Infantry doctrine now adds 25% damage reduction to Rangers
- Rangers are now only available in Infantry doctrine
- Rangers now require the "Ranger truck" unlock in order to be built
- Infantry cost reduction unlock no longer affects Rangers
- Fixed a bug where grenades dealt too low damage to emplacements
- Increased the aiming time of M10's HEAT shot to 2.5 seconds (from 1.5)
- Removed the detection radius of Calliope Jeep (it had same radius as .30cal Jeep, but Calliope Jeep is not recon unit)
- Lowered the detection radius of Armored .50cal Jeep to "7" (from 18)
- Added 5 fuel cost to Armored Jeep
- Upkeep of Spotter lowered to cca 4MP/min (from 9.6MP/min)
- Made changes to the HEAT riflegrenade projectile which should help it miss less often than intended (hopefully for good)
- The cost of AT squad in Infantry doctrine should now be properly lowered with Mass Production unlock

CW:
- Stuart no longer needs to buy upgrade to use HE mode (activation: 15 ammo, needs to wait at least 20 seconds to switch back to AP)
- Corrected AoE ranges of 95mm Churchill and Cromwell to 1/3/5/8 (from 1/3/7/7)
- Assigned a Hotkey "B" for 95mm Churchill's and Cromwell's barrage
- Lowered cost of Dingo to 240MP (from 300MP)
- Lowered cost of Dingo to 170MP 5F after Captain is built
- Lowered speed bonus of Flank Speed ability on Cromwells and Comets to +25% (from +50%)
- Increased turret rotation of Comet to 22 (from 16; now it is closer to Cromwell)
- Lowered turret rotation speed of M10 Achilles to 9 (from 13; now it is the same as M10 Wolverine)
- Fixed a bug where Achilles and Comet had old turret rotation speeds when shooting HE rounds
- 2inch mortar barrage cost set to 10 ammo
- 3inch mortar barrage cost set to 25 ammo
- 4.2inch mortar barrage cost set to 35 ammo (from 30)
- Increased maximum range of Wasp flamethrower to 25
- Lowered the Veterancy XP requirements of 2pounder Tetrarch to 12/24/48/96 (from 25/55/90/135)
- Top mount .50cal on Staghound is now an upgrade (25 ammo)
- Camouflaged Daimler Scout Car will now be revealed by bypassing units at range of "7" (from 20)

WM:
- Applied arty changes to Grille (was forgotten before)
- "46mm grenade" ability of GrB39 squad now requires the Tank Factory to become available
- Increased cooldown of "46mm grenade" ability of GrB39 squad to 75 seconds (from 30)
- Increased cost of "46mm grenade" ability of GrB39 squad to 70 ammo (from 50)
- Fixed a bug where 46mm grenade missed a lot less than intended
- Lowered range of 46mm grenade ability to 45 (from 55)
- "HE grenade" of GrB39 squad now requires the Krieg Barracks to become available
- Increased scatter of missed GrB HE grenades (even when they missed they usually hit so close that they dealt damage anyway)
- Increased accuracy of Tiger's main gun to 1/1/0.9/0.9 (from 1/1/0.75/0.75)
- Increased basic damage of Tiger's main gun to 120 - 150 (from 110 - 140)
- Removed Flank Speed from Tiger tanks
- Accurate Long Range Shot on Tiger Ace now requires Vet level 1 (from 2)
- Fixed a bug where standard Geschützwagen shot had AoE similar to HE shots
- 81mm mortar barrage cost set to 25 ammo
- Fixed a bug where PaK38 automatically fired at enemy infantry
- Sdkfz 234/3 ("Puma" with Stubby 75mm) now has the frontal MG active (it was on the model but never shooting)
- GrB39 squad should no longer detect stealthed units in overly large area
- Removed Wolfram ammo from Sdkfz 234/3 (Puma with stubby 75mm) and 75mm stubby Haftrack
- Added the "Fire HEAT/B" ability to Sdkfz 234/3 (Puma with stubby 75mm) and 75mm stubby Haftrack
- Fixed a bug where StuH and StuPa received no accuracy nerf when shooting at targets in smoke
- Upkeep of Spotter lowered to cca 4MP/min (from 5.3MP/min)
- Increased penetration of 20mm gun on Sdkfz 234 and 222 against jeeps (should no longer happen that the shouts bounce off from normal Jeeps and the chance to bounce off of Armored Jeep is also lower)
- Goliath can now be built in Krieg Barracks (requires Assault Phase upgrade)
- Added an option to drop a Goliath to PzB41 Halftrack (Defensive Doctrine)
- Changed settings of Walking Stuka rockets so that they don't kill with 100% chance any infantry caught in AoE
- Applied an improved texture on Sturmtiger (thanks to Panzerblitz1)

PE:
- Changed the base speed of Hotchkiss to 3.6 (from 5.5)
- "Stuka Rockets" upgrade now reduces speed of Hotchkiss to 2.8 (from 4.4)
- "Stuka Rockets" upgrade now requires "Panzer-support" building
- "Stuka Rockets" upgrade limited to 2 at a time (Hotchkisses are still unlimited but you cannot have more than two at a time with rockets)
- Hotchkiss barrage now has bigger scatter (so the rockets will land randomly in bigger area)
- Changed settings of Hotchkiss rockets so that they don't kill with 100% chance any infantry caught in AoE
- Hummel's "Rapid shooting position" (static mode) now reduces the reload time by 25% (from 50%)
- Fixed a bug where Hummel in static mode was actually harder to hit
- Hummel should no longer land majority of shells on the far edge of the hit zone
- Fixed a bug where TH doc's "Periscope" unlock provided no bonus when TDs were in camo
- Changed "range distances" for Henschel cannon
- Lowered accuracy of Henschel aircraft to 1/0.9/0.8/0.7 (from 1/1/1/1)
- Henschel planes no longer have doubled accuracy against certain tank types
- Lowered "ready for fire" delay of Hetzer to 0.75-1.25 second (from 1.5)
- Increased the cost of Panzer-Jäger Kommand building to 400MP (from 350MP)
- Lowered the cost of Panzer-Support Kommand building to 400MP (from 550MP)
- Lowered the cost of transport Halftrack to 250MP 15F (from 300MP 15F)
- Fixed a bug where standard Nashorn shot had AoE similar to HE shots
- 81mm mortar barrage cost set to 25 ammo
- Sdkfz 234/4 (75mm L48 "Puma") now has ambush mode (static mode removed)
- Camouflaged Kettenkrad will now be revealed by bypassing units at range of "7" (from 20)
- Removed Wolfram ammo from 75mm stubby Haftrack
- Added the "Fire HEAT/B" ability to 75mm stubby Haftrack
- Sdkfz 234/4 ("puma" with PaK40) is now revealed from camouflage after firing a shot
- Main cannon of JPIV L70 no longer fires at paratroopers in the air
- Goliath can now be built in Logistic Kompanie (requires Infantry Support building)
- For Ammunition HT lowered the price of "Place Goliath" ability to 50MP 50ammo (from 100 ammo)

[Shanks]

we'll see what happens in pvp now, hahahha ... by the way, no price was put on the smoke mortar shots, I think that's wrong, it should cost at least 10 ammo, I also did not see in the changes that were made has corrected the damage against the panterturm of 105 mm, anyway, sure there are changes that people will not like, to be honest, I could only give a better opinion after playing some games of pvp, I have to try it , also this version could not wait anymore, mainly because the hotchkiss is OP in the previous version... On the other hand, thanks for the work to all the dev

[Walderschmidt]

Great patch! I look forward to playing with this.

As for smoke rounds, I think it's fine if there is no muni cost since people rarely use it as is anyway.

Wald

[Shanks]

the smoke screen is used by professionals, and they do not use it rarely ... you can cause a lot of damage with the smoke screen, but I do not complain too much now, because the goliat was improved, and you can use it against the smoke screen attacks

[autraymond]

just played 2 pvp matches and i really like the new rangers, also imo mortars are just fine now.
.50 cal upgrade cost is fair atleast as armor doc, since it has plenty of ammo anyway.

so overall great patch thumbs up!

[Jagdpanther]

- Lowered front penetration chance of 75mm guns (Shermans, Cromwells, Churchills) against StuG III/IV (max range 23%; 14% with skirts)

Why are the skirts lowering the front penetration? Isn't supposed to lower the sides/rear penetration? (rear also since coh engine doesn't differentiate them from what i've read)

[MarKr]

Engine limitation. There is no front, side or rear armor, only "front half of the vehicle" and "rear half of the vehicle". Skirts are on the side, stretching from front half to rear half and so it contributes to frontal and rear armor strength.

[Viper]

very good version. the best one this year. but dont forget to update the changelog on the steam store page. great work!

[mofetagalactica]

very good version thank you, looking forward to price changes of axis and german armors.

[Warhawks97]

Agree, thumbs up.

Looking forward for jumbo changes.

And can the limit of one 105 sherman be increased to two? i dont get why this unit is as strictly limited as a Stupa, Sturmtiger or Grille.

[Panzerblitz1]

Agree, thumbs up.

Looking forward for jumbo changes.

And can the limit of one 105 sherman be increased to two? i dont get why this unit is as strictly limited as a Stupa, Sturmtiger or Grille.

The limitation is fine, why the limitation? Because its a high mobile arty piece.

[Viper]

i also think limit of 105 sherman is fine. and 75 jumbo can maybe stay in infantry doctrine.

Looking forward for jumbo changes.

yes. but im also looking forward to buildable churchill mk.vii and looking forward to introduction of hold fire ability for most tanks. and also for panther.d to be removed from luft to blitz doctrine.

[mofetagalactica]

i also think limit of 105 sherman is fine. and 75 jumbo can maybe stay in infantry doctrine.

Looking forward for jumbo changes.

yes. but im also looking forward to buildable churchill mk.vii and looking forward to introduction of hold fire ability for most tanks. and also for panther.d to be removed from luft to blitz doctrine.

+1 i forgot

[Warhawks97]

If jumbo gets armor buff against 75 mm L/48 guns it would be like having a churchill MKVII in the RAF doctrine.

It also would require a higher CP unlock. But who wants a 6-7 CP heavy tank in an infantry focused doctrine which some (see menicus post) already see as too much focused on tanks?

[Marplatense]

Thanks for the patch.

[Walderschmidt]

As of right now, this patch feels way more balanced. The new Rangers are terrifying and their bazookas being more accurate scare my vehicles (especially any hetzer that is armor doc and doesn't have zimmerit!). The new .50 cals are brutal, especially on the jeeps.

Hotchkiss is still useful, but doesn't feel like the easy button as much as it once did. I think it's almost too excessive having it unlocked only after the Panzer Support Command, and would prefer if it was unlocked by either T4 building. I've got two replays to post and thoughts on them, but I only used one Hotchkiss where I normally get 2 or 3 even just for a 2v2.

Wald

[MarKr]

their bazookas being more accurate scare my vehicles

Bazookas have same accuracy as they had before 5.1.6

[Erich]

kwok's padawan

[MarKr]

What does that mean?

[Mr. FeministDonut]

With nerfing Sherman's 75mm penetration power against Stugs, there are any reasons to keep HE cost that high? I mean, tank's capabilities got cut in the half to having only AI power, can we get a price drop off for HE ammo in the future?

[12oz.Mouse]

Hi, improving gochikissa through additional building makes the game for tank hunters pro-allied balanced. You must return the opportunity to get rockets in the old way, because tank hunters at the start of the game are weak and have no chance without fuel. Allies have jeeps with art installations at the beginning of the game.

[Walderschmidt]

their bazookas being more accurate scare my vehicles

Bazookas have same accuracy as they had before 5.1.6

They're not actually more accurate, but Rangers getting a buff so they survive better means they get more vet and shoot more accurately (and more importantly actually shoot the bazookas often!)

What does that mean?

Trainee/protege, like Anakin to Obiwan Kenobi.

Wald

[MarKr]

With nerfing Sherman's 75mm penetration power against Stugs, there are any reasons to keep HE cost that high? I mean, tank's capabilities got cut in the half to having only AI power, can we get a price drop off for HE ammo in the future?

What do you mean? The changes the 75mm Sherman got were:
1) The original state: Penetration chance frontally against StuG at max range about 20%, HE upgrade cost 25 ammo, HE mode cost ammo each time to activate
2) HE mode change: HE upgrade cost increased to 90 ammo, HE mode activation is free, penetration chances same as in point number 1
3) Penetration change: Along with increased rear penetration changes the 75mm Sherman also go increased frontal penetration against StuGs (to about 40% at max range), HE mode same as in point number 2
4) Penetration change tweak: based on feedback and further consideration we returned the penetration chances against StuGs back to 20% at max range (so as it was before point number 3)

Nobody had a problem with 75mm Sherman's penetration against StuGs and HE upgrade cost when it was at point number 2, now the situation is back at point number 2 but now the cost of HE suddenly should be lowered because the "75mm gun is weaker" (even when it is not)?

Hi, improving gochikissa through additional building makes the game for tank hunters pro-allied balanced. You must return the opportunity to get rockets in the old way, because tank hunters at the start of the game are weak and have no chance without fuel. Allies have jeeps with art installations at the beginning of the game.

This is the oposite of what one of the things people complained about - Hotchkiss rockets coming too early. Tank Hunter doctrine's main purpose is to fight tanks with their many TDs, not to shoot arty from Hotchkiss as soon as possible.

Trainee/protege, like Anakin to Obiwan Kenobi.

I am familiar with Star Wars references, I meant more like "at whom it was aimed"

[Mr. FeministDonut]

How is that 20% of penetration sounds not weaker?
Sherman already need to be always switching AP from HE rounds, having a high cooldown time, but now with that 20% pen chance, this tank is made only for AI, despite power it has in RL. Even having HE is just enough to destroy light vehicles, so having AP now is pointless.
By the way, is there any chance of adding APCR or HEAT rounds for Shermans, as Pz3 and Pz4 E has? ( if it even existed) Just to have any chances in middle ranges against Stug for paying munitions price.

[MarKr]

Weaker compared to what or when? The situation in 5.1.5? I've never heard you complaining about the strength of 75mm Sherman vs StuG in 5.1.4 and before but suddenly NOW it is too weak? Even when it has been like this for years? This is the part that I don't get. It was OK for years, then it got for the period of one patch stronger frontal penetration against StuG, then it returned to the "OK stage" which it had for years, except now it is not OK anymore?

Actually the stronger rear penetration chances (which were added in 5.1.5) are still there so 75mm Shermans are still stronger than they were before 5.1.5.