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Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 07 Nov 2018, 21:04
by MarKr
If howitzers have too much scatter, it should be adressed before the release.

Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 01:09
by The New BK Champion
Arty is heavily overnerfed, in 3 salvos not a single shot landed on a house that was fired at. On medium distance, with vision...
That's british arty both priest and howizers, US howizers seem ok.

Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 11:50
by seha
i think british 25p has too big scatter yes. but i think the priest is the only unit that does not suffer any scatter at whatever range. or very minimal. almost has same accuracy at any range. and i dont understand how could the priest with 105mm gun reload only in 4 seconds at max level. does wespe do the same? if yes. then its bullshit for both. max level should not allow for super unrealistic behaviour. for any unit.

it will be nice to have hold fire on this patch too. at least for the tanks that can have it. if some tanks dont have place in their ability menu you can leave them for the next time.

Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 13:13
by The New BK Champion
I just tested priest and it scores 0 hits on target in 3 salvos...

Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 14:05
by seha
maybe very bad luck. it should hit with overwatch and aimed salvo. but if the priest is really too inaccurate now......doesnt this mean all arty should be inaccurate too? its strange because i think the same arty changes were applied for all.

Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 14:16
by MarKr
Guys, we're having another look at the arty spread setup. There were some mistakes made in the spread calculations so some arty is too inaccurate.

During the tests I noticed that the static howitzers (both naked and emplaced) have probably the longest reload times - longer than any mobile arty unit. This lowers further their usefulness because they can be counter-shot before they finish their barrage. So this might be another thing to change. The static howitzers need some advantage so that there is some reason to build them.

Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 08:33
by MenciusMoldbug
Three things:

First, why doesn't the fallshirmjager sniper for luftwaffe get the unlock buff the other para units get (the last buff that gives the FJR with FG42s def cover bonus)? Technically, it's a luftwaffe sniper. So like Command RAF Snipers, and Airborne Snipers (the ones you call in from airborne barracks/hq) he should get the benefit of his CP unlock; maybe give him that gebirsjager cover aura/training/modifier.

Second, The wehrmacht spotter icon has been bothering me a lot because it's a placeholder grenadier icon flipped the other way (when compared to the other icons looks very 'wrong'). So I made a quick replacement for it for myself and in case you need it.

Currently the icon in the UI for the WH Spotter is this:

WH Spotter Old.png
WH Spotter Old.png (23.47 KiB) Viewed 2303 times


I made a quick edit and changed it into this (from what I gleamed of it looking like in the wehrmacht quarters barrack):

WH Spotter New.png
WH Spotter New.png (24.41 KiB) Viewed 2303 times


Third is a nitpick, but the Light AT Squad you get for Wehrmacht in the HQ building is spelled as 'Light anti-tank squad.' The letters of every word should be capitalized as in other unit names; so it should be 'Light Anti-Tank Squad.'

Other than that, I didn't see any major problems in the patch yet except the artillery inaccuracy (and yeah, the 25 pounder probably fires too slow for its caliber).

Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 10:49
by MarKr
1) The defense bonuses are pretty strong and giving them to the sniper would make it a lot harder to kill. Snipers are often the best counter to the Luft infantry, if you support them with your own sniper who would be extremely hard to kill with the bonus, they would be a bit stronger once again. So I don't think it is a good idead to add this strong bonus to the sniper.

2) You're right it is just a reversed Grenadier picture possibly will be replaced at some point in the future. I sort of doubt that the game will accept .png file though.

3) It can be changed but not really a big problem either.

During the tests it also showed up that the barrage ability of LeiG18 fires a significantly weaker shots than in the direct-fire mode. This will be fixed too. It is unlikely that it will make the unit suddenly preferable over PaK38 but it would be good to have the unit usefull in case someone decides to use it.

Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 12:00
by seha
MarKr wrote:During the tests I noticed that the static howitzers (both naked and emplaced) have probably the longest reload times - longer than any mobile arty unit. This lowers further their usefulness because they can be counter-shot before they finish their barrage. So this might be another thing to change. The static howitzers need some advantage so that there is some reason to build them.

yes. will be good if mobile arty take longer to reload (specifically at max level) and static howitzers would reload faster.

MarKr wrote:During the tests it also showed up that the barrage ability of LeiG18 fires a significantly weaker shots than in the direct-fire mode. This will be fixed too. It is unlikely that it will make the unit suddenly preferable over PaK38 but it would be good to have the unit usefull in case someone decides to use it.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1574&start=25#p15555
the thing about leig18 was already reported almost 3 years ago.
it's finally changing :mrgreen:

Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 12:54
by The New BK Champion
seha wrote:yes. will be good if mobile arty take longer to reload (specifically at max level) and static howitzers would reload faster

People and devs have already explained that mobile howizers could shoot fast, and you are the only one to claim that they are shooting too fast. And you base your words on a replay that you lost...

Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 13:06
by seha
what replay ???? static howitzers should fire quicker than mobile howitzers. i said what markr said to show i agree. so what do you speak about?

edit ............. if you mean the replay file when i tested the priest.
yes, i no longer have the replay file but mark said the reload is 4 seconds at max level. and this is too fast.

Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 15:23
by The New BK Champion
seha wrote:what replay ???? static howitzers should fire quicker than mobile howitzers. i said what markr said to show i agree. so what do you speak about?

edit ............. if you mean the replay file when i tested the priest.
yes, i no longer have the replay file but mark said the reload is 4 seconds at max level. and this is too fast.


MarKr wrote:Basic reload speed is between 6,5 and 7,5 seconds, each veterancy level lowers it by x0,9 so with Vet level 4, the average reload time is 4.59 seconds. So the reload time went up in one of the previous patches (used to be 6 seconds) and the reload time reduction was there even before the arty changes. So it makes no sense for Priest to fire so fast :?

Devs already answered you. In some other topic hawks explained how Priets had ammo racks prepared for rapid reloading and firing. Besides... in the recent patches arty received: accuracy, range and damage nerfs. Are you serious with more??
yeah whatever

@Markr, I just hope that you will fix Brits arty, cuz I did more testing. I had a huge blob of ai units and fired priest 2 times at it, no sigle hit. The numbers are seriously fucked up right now.

Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 16:15
by seha
you seem so obsessed only about british artillery. is it because you like it the most ? and did you test all other artillery in the game and from axis side too or only the british ? the damage was buffed on the center of the explosion. not nerfed. there might be accuracy mistakes now. but i also think arty should not become satellite guided or super accurate. and you think it is normal for 105mm artillery gun to reload faster than small 2 pounder guns ?
the rapid reloading and firing can only be distributed with static position ability. but priest doesn't have. it is a mobile artillery unit so why should it reload as quickly as or quicker than static howitzers ? and does other mobile artillery units also reload this fast at max level or only the priest ?
it is not about nerfing or buffing. it is about common sense, and about getting things straight. i dont want artillery nerfed. but it should not be op.

Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 13 Nov 2018, 01:34
by Panzerblitz1
Guys please cool down, the problems with arty will be solved to be fair and pvp balanced.

Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 13 Nov 2018, 13:31
by Shanks
all stop fighting , everyone are my children in bk, but my favorite children are figree and Mrfeminis, I love them, do not forget

Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 13 Nov 2018, 15:38
by Warhawks97
seha wrote:you seem so obsessed only about british artillery. is it because you like it the most ? and did you test all other artillery in the game and from axis side too or only the british ? the damage was buffed on the center of the explosion. not nerfed. there might be accuracy mistakes now. but i also think arty should not become satellite guided or super accurate. and you think it is normal for 105mm artillery gun to reload faster than small 2 pounder guns ?
the rapid reloading and firing can only be distributed with static position ability. but priest doesn't have. it is a mobile artillery unit so why should it reload as quickly as or quicker than static howitzers ? and does other mobile artillery units also reload this fast at max level or only the priest ?
it is not about nerfing or buffing. it is about common sense, and about getting things straight. i dont want artillery nerfed. but it should not be op.



They are closely togther actually. Priest reload is 6,5 to 7,5 sec, static US howitzer is 7 sec like 25 pdr, wespe is 7-8 sec.



@markr:

The mobile howitzers have all got a range cut down to 180. What bugs me a bit is that even with long range ability that costs ammo additional ammo (axis) or CP (CW) they dont get the range static howitzers have. Would it be possible to give them their old boost back so they can get the same range as static arty when they already have to pay additional ammo?

Generally i would have gone the other way arround, having static 105/25 pdr with their 250 range instead of 225 and leaving the mobile the way they were (200 range).... anyway


quesion: What does distance_scatter_offset mean or what does it?
Guns like allis 105 have a value of -0.1, 25 pdr and axis 105 has value of 0

In old version the us 105 for example had a value of 0.3


so what it actually does?

Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 13 Nov 2018, 15:56
by kwok
Scatter offset changes where the “center point” of the barrage is relative to the target you’ve selected.

An offset of -.1 means that it’ll generally fall short by 0.1 units I think. Or it’s 0.1 x factor. The real impact value is the scatter_ratio.

Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 13 Nov 2018, 16:55
by MarKr
Warhawks97 wrote:The mobile howitzers have all got a range cut down to 180. What bugs me a bit is that even with long range ability that costs ammo additional ammo (axis) or CP (CW) they dont get the range static howitzers have. Would it be possible to give them their old boost back so they can get the same range as static arty when they already have to pay additional ammo?

That is problematic. 25 pounders have 225 range by default and 250 with supercharged shots - WM 105 arty has also basic 225 and 250 with special ammo. So what range would you give to those mobile howitzers with extra range? 225? Then the statics will still outrange them with special ammo (and CW doesn't even need to pay extra for it). So would the range be 250? Then there is again no advantage on the side of static howitzers. I think that the static howitzers should simply have the longest range because the range is the only thing that can play in their advantage. If they have less or same range as moveable units, then these units will be able to counter-arty them in every situation. Even the extra range of static howitzers isn't all that great because once they hit something, enemy knows where they are and then they can arty them with mobile artillery from different positions. Maybe only CW could be a bit safer here if the dummy howitzers are used but even that exposes your guns and can be attacked.

Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 13 Nov 2018, 21:09
by Mr. FeministDonut
Can be Slugger bit be cheaper? It's too expensive in comparing to Hornisse

Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 13 Nov 2018, 21:54
by The New BK Champion
Only if panzer 1 get's cheaper than m22 locust, mate.

Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 14 Nov 2018, 05:38
by Mr. FeministDonut
The New BK Champion wrote:Only if panzer 1 get's cheaper than m22 locust, mate.

I don't agree with your quote, even more, I find it too offensive for my over-constructive suggestion

Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 16 Nov 2018, 18:40
by Mr. FeministDonut
Also, I have another suggestion: Let mortar teams pay for normal reload time (or even a bit faster than in normal version) like around 40 ammo for defense

Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 16 Nov 2018, 22:14
by Warhawks97
What do you mean?

Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 17 Nov 2018, 10:43
by Mr. FeministDonut
Warhawks97 wrote:What do you mean?

I mean let mortars shoot as they always did in non-ability mode every infantry in their range, for additional muni cost, with maybe little buffs in reload speed. Like the same barrage ability, but with no selectable area

Re: 5.1.6 beta3

Posted: 17 Nov 2018, 14:35
by Warhawks97
Mr. FeministDonut wrote:
Warhawks97 wrote:What do you mean?

I mean let mortars shoot as they always did in non-ability mode every infantry in their range, for additional muni cost, with maybe little buffs in reload speed. Like the same barrage ability, but with no selectable area


ehm?

How shall it work? Like "activate mortar button"?.... sorry, thats too much nerf... paying 40 ammo just for normal shooting. I dont get the point behind this idea.