Re: 5.1.5 beta v6
Posted: 22 Aug 2018, 16:21
Been testing this update and everything seems pretty fine regarding the new unit, damage is ok now, the new skins look amazing, just let it go live please.
MarKr wrote:This last beta was meant to get the new squad to a more playable state which, I guess, it is now.
Kwok also said that he hadn't played enough to tell for fure which units have this problem and since he is the only one to report that then either he's wrong OR not enough people play the beta which means that waiting for him to collect the data will take few more weeks. By my experience during these few weeks of waiting people will come up with bunch of new ideas to implement and it will lead to the fact that we'll be postponing the release for months.
So I would say we can release 5.1.5 and do the other things in the next beta (I can start working on the 5.1.6 beta pretty much right after the 5.1.5 is released so it will not be any huge delay). For the 5.1.6 we would like to focus on:
- flamethrowers rework
- .50cal revision
- adding Hold Fire to heavy tanks with longer reload times
- flank speeds on Tigers + ALRS adjustments
- tuning the arty damage
- possibility for BOYS to deal less damage to early vehicles but causing criticals (weapon destroyed, engine damaged etc.) on them more often
and some other ideas that were mentioned in the topics lately. Don't freak out about those points, most of it is in the stage of theoretical planing.
Warhawks97 wrote:What is mean with "longer reload times". Speaking of those longer than 7 sec?
I think thats a nice thing for all tanks but i guess that would be a huge ammount of work. But gameplay wise and for tactics and strategy it would be a great thing for pretty much all tanks or non-autocanons.
Pretty much this:Warhawks97 wrote:What is mean with "longer reload times". Speaking of those longer than 7 sec?
Really don't know yet. It wasn't planned at all, out of sudden someone says that "tanks should get it now, when they have longer reload times". But I don't think all tanks will get that simply because some don't have any UI slots free anymore (especially in RE doc), not to mention that people often complain about the game being often micro-heavy and this will only add to it more. Wouldn't it be more convenient (even though it would require more work) to disable auto-targetting of infantry and light vehicles for tank guns? You could still attack them by clicking on desired target and tanks would still be auto-targeted because in most occasions you want to take a shot at tank anyway.MarKr wrote:Don't freak out about those points, most of it is in the stage of theoretical planing.
MarKr wrote:Really don't know yet. It wasn't planned at all, out of sudden someone says that "tanks should get it now, when they have longer reload times". But I don't think all tanks will get that simply because some don't have any UI slots free anymore (especially in RE doc), not to mention that people often complain about the game being often micro-heavy and this will only add to it more. Wouldn't it be more convenient (even though it would require more work) to disable auto-targetting of infantry and light vehicles for tank guns? You could still attack them by clicking on desired target and tanks would still be auto-targeted because in most occasions you want to take a shot at tank anyway.
Tiger1996 wrote:Henny wrote:In my opinion if you remove the flank speed from Hetzer you must remove the flank speed from the cromwell aswell
Actually another good point there. I have always wondered why the 3rd CW truck doesn't require Captain first...
This allows British players to bring Cromwells too early into the game, almost sometimes as soon as Puma specifically in high resources games.
Hetzers were the only true Axis counterpart to racing Cromwells, because flank speed for Hetzers allowed them to chase Cromwells.
Now I have no idea how Cromwells are going to be hunted at all.. just too fast to be caught! The only chance would be if the British player pays no attention to his Cromwell.. or drives it into ambush unwillingly, the Axis player can only be relying on his opponent mistakes at this point.
Tiger1996 wrote:MarKr wrote:Really don't know yet. It wasn't planned at all, out of sudden someone says that "tanks should get it now, when they have longer reload times". But I don't think all tanks will get that simply because some don't have any UI slots free anymore (especially in RE doc), not to mention that people often complain about the game being often micro-heavy and this will only add to it more. Wouldn't it be more convenient (even though it would require more work) to disable auto-targetting of infantry and light vehicles for tank guns? You could still attack them by clicking on desired target and tanks would still be auto-targeted because in most occasions you want to take a shot at tank anyway.
There is no need to add it for all tanks in the game as Hawks requested.. because it will be too much work on your shoulders I guess, and that's unfair.
So only add it to ALL heavy tanks with long reload time above 7 sec.. but maybe also including Panthers, Comets and Firefly.. in addition to assault howitzer tanks (Stupa, Stuh, and Scott) and that's it... Would be pretty appreciated then.
Oh, and stop pretending that you ignore me by replacing my nickname with the word "someone" Cuz it's ******* hilarious...
MarKr wrote:Wouldn't it be more convenient (even though it would require more work) to disable auto-targetting of infantry and light vehicles for tank guns? You could still attack them by clicking on desired target and tanks would still be auto-targeted because in most occasions you want to take a shot at tank anyway.
Shanks wrote:I have been saying for a while now, they must also remove the FS of cromwell, M10 and Achilles ... not just the hetzer!
Warhawks97 wrote:Shanks wrote:i do clarify as 120000000 times, that the daimler was an example !, i dont told you what strategy I use to destroy units with the "daimler", perhaps it is the only AT tool ???? ... then you speak that I compare 1v1 units, Is not it the same as you do ??? .. "The hetzer has this and this, the M10 this and this, the Achilles this and this", at least you have to read what I write, before giving an answer
I speak of the hetzer more than anything, and you deviate the subject
Well, i compare strenght and weakness units in the same role have. Comparing a TD with another. And here Hetzer holds the HP, armor, received accuracy and amount of ambush shots advantage (+ being clearly more powerfull as the US M10 when it comes to destroying common targets due to the ambush pen boost changes that hurt US most). The M10´s do only have speed and the CW one an HE shot. But the CW faction is far less multirole options and its inf isnt such a good support for tanks like PE inf is (simply bc of advanced rep everywhere and much better durability and versatility)
You come up with 1 vs 1 engagments. You had issues with daimler flanking your hetzer and infantry, i told you what could possibly help. But you turned it again into a 1 vs 1 scenario daimler vs 20 mm and i just told you the cons and pros of each unit and for what they can be used. For me it seems that the game stands still and that each side sends one monster into the field against another one in 1 vs 1 like in a pokemon game.
I just told you how i protect slow units against small mobile units and infantry.
And btw. What do you think about the Jagdpanzer IV/48 which gets replaced by hetzer in the reward menu? It uses the same TT as hetzer just with slightly better armor. Instead of 46% chance to bounce 76 guns it has a 52% chance to do so and M6A3C zooks have instead a 100% pen chance only a 90% chance to pen. It costs more and has no top mounted MG. It has 650 HP instead of 600 as hetzer has but in general it has the same weakness. Three zooks that pen would likely kill both while two zooks would perhaps kill a Hetzer only with luck triggering both times max damage.
The IV/48 costs more but holds apparently no real advantage or has at least the same problems. Why dont you propose anything for that tank which costs even more than a Hetzer? Not important right? You didnt have that unit on your screen at all. The Hetzer was simply better which isnt what "reward" units are supposed to be. You trade certain cons on pros. In this case the JP IV/48 was supposed to have actually better survivability due to slightly better armor and HP for slightly higher cost. But the flank speed totally neglected this aspect because the mobility with flank speed made the Hetzer surviving much longer on the field than the armor and HP on the IV/48, plus it gave the Hetzer even much better offensive capabilties and a better versatility in general ....for cheaper cost.
I´d like to hear your unfailable minds to this matter. I think that the IV/48 gets back its reason of existence as reward unit (basically the hetzer is the reward unit, i know). Trading better survivability with cost instead of trading a piece of shit with a super effective and versatile unit.mofetagalactica wrote:¿Hey war where can i get your mod? I wanna try it.
I am actually not allowed to share it and only a very few of my closest mates have access to it. Unfortunately i hadnt any time recently (since February i hadnt much time) to work on it so it runs on 5.14 version. However arty changes (at least ranges and reduced scatter removal from rocket arty vet) got implemented as well as the current gun changes (ranges, reload times) and some other stuff. It is quite different in many aspects (eg cost ratio between infantry/wepon crews and Tanks/arty) and PE is more or less completely different. But i would have to update it first to be compatibel with latest versions. I can let you know when i got the time for it but you wouldnt be allowed to share it with anyone.
You can pm me for more infos in steam.Tiger1996 wrote:Henny wrote:In my opinion if you remove the flank speed from Hetzer you must remove the flank speed from the cromwell aswell
Hetzers were the only true Axis counterpart to racing Cromwells, because flank speed for Hetzers allowed them to chase Cromwells.
Now I have no idea how Cromwells are going to be hunted at all.. just too fast to be caught! The only chance would be if the British player pays no attention to his Cromwell.. or drives it into ambush unwillingly, the Axis player can only be relying on his opponent mistakes at this point.
perhaps you cant chase it accross the map but cruisers are meant to be fast. But just bc you cant hunt something it doesnt mean there is no protection. Its not like the old OP comet combining Pershing armor with cromwell speed and Panther gun.
Pretty much anything can pen it, even the 28 mm guns. So there is a protection against it and the cromwell cant stop your units in case you want to attack. Running only away doesnt make you win a game.
But in this case it follows the same logic. The cromwell would never be able to face a Hetzer unless it has the chance to circle arround or to be simply faster in movment. And whenever a cromwell makes a dance with your mortar HT it becomes automatically vulnerable to possibly hidden Hetzers and 50 mm guns. So using cromwells is always a risk to run into an ambush. The other option is not to attack and to just run away all the time.Tiger1996 wrote:I have always wondered why the 3rd CW truck doesn't require Captain first...
This allows British players to bring Cromwells too early into the game, almost sometimes as soon as Puma specifically in high resources games.
I think thats in order to bring come versatility. I do like that system and would like to see it more often. The tec lines are often very straight. Only US has one option to either make tank depot first but then having still no access to anything better than regular shermans unltill the supply yard is up.
On axis side there could be something similar. Like you could get your medium tank factory after first HQ upgrade and having only stugs and stubby tank IV availbale but while the second HQ upgrade unlocks long barreld tank IV´s. Just as an example.
I like versatile tec lines like that one.
I meant the amount of clicks you need to make.seha wrote:i think hold fire will be more convenient, because heavy tanks with long reload should not target light tanks too....and not just infantry.
unless the player wants them to do so.
seha wrote:Shanks wrote:I have been saying for a while now, they must also remove the FS of cromwell, M10 and Achilles ... not just the hetzer!
from m10, cromwell and achilles? that's too much. i think no need for that.
MarKr wrote:I observed that even if you set targetting priority for different types of target, the game sometimes tells units to shoot at lower priority target even when higher priority target is in range. This means even if Hold Fire is added, you need to first click on the "hold fire" button to allow the unit to shoot and then (if there are more enemy units in range) you need to click on the target anyway. So it seems like adding one extra step which will not be hugely beneficial. But I really don't care if it is done this or the other way and I think the rest of the team will see it the same way so in the end will be up to what you guys agree on.
MarKr wrote:So I would say we can release 5.1.5 and do the other things in the next beta (I can start working on the 5.1.6 beta
MenciusMoldbug wrote:Even if this new squad coming didn't exist, I don't think it would impact the importance of US light tanks all that much.
Problem with US light tanks like the Stuart is that the cost to performance ratio is messed up. Why does it cost 45 munitions to load HE on this tank? Who saves up 45 munitions(not to mention the manpower and fuel) in the first 5-10 minutes of the game to bank it all on the Stuart? Isn't that the same problem with Rifle Grenades as a counter to scout cars? That they cost too much early on in the game to be useful as a supposed counter? At least the greyhounds skirts are not mandatory to give it a fighting edge over infantry, despite costing a bit more than these HE shells.
In conjunction to the cost, look at its performance in HE mode. Stuarts HE shells do 40-40 damage with 75% accuracy at distant and long ranges; compare it to the sherman which has 50-90 for its HE with 100% accuracy at all ranges. It's why I skip the light tanks and rush the sherman, its anti-infantry capabilities are way, way better for a longer delay on when you get your armor. Some games can be over in the first few minutes depending on how fast you get your first HE sherman.
I like how Blitzkrieg Doctrine has this Pak 37mm Halftrack. It costs almost the same as the Stuart but loading HE shells on it only costs you 15 munitions. If it was like the Stuart, and it costs 45 munitions to load HE shells on it, less people would use it and more often than not go for the Puma instead. I think tanks like the Stuart deserve the Pak 37mm Halftrack treatment. 15 to switch to HE; then switching back to AP and then back again to HE should cost 15 again(like cromwells).
MarKr wrote:This last beta was meant to get the new squad to a more playable state which, I guess, it is now.
Kwok also said that he hadn't played enough to tell for fure which units have this problem and since he is the only one to report that then either he's wrong OR not enough people play the beta which means that waiting for him to collect the data will take few more weeks. By my experience during these few weeks of waiting people will come up with bunch of new ideas to implement and it will lead to the fact that we'll be postponing the release for months.
So I would say we can release 5.1.5 and do the other things in the next beta (I can start working on the 5.1.6 beta pretty much right after the 5.1.5 is released so it will not be any huge delay). For the 5.1.6 we would like to focus on:
- flamethrowers rework
- .50cal revision
- adding Hold Fire to heavy tanks with longer reload times
- flank speeds on Tigers + ALRS adjustments
- tuning the arty damage
- possibility for BOYS to deal less damage to early vehicles but causing criticals (weapon destroyed, engine damaged etc.) on them more often
and some other ideas that were mentioned in the topics lately. Don't freak out about those points, most of it is in the stage of theoretical planing.
Walderschmidt wrote:P.S. Second suggestion, what if enemy players can't see how much vet your units have? (or only if they click on the unit?)
They can kill Recce with their basic ammunition (but it should take 3-4 hits). The ability shot is there to keep them viable agaist medium tanks lalter in game. I think it would be good to keep it but if it is available too soon it could get unlocked later e.g. with later Phase upgrade or Light tanks factory.MEFISTO wrote:for the new at squad, we should remove the 30mm AT grenade because they make the early game and mid game vehicles useless.(...)I think they should still be able to kill units like recces, but they do not need that grenade specifically.
It is as poor as it has been for ages, that is why there is a rework planned for flamethrowers for the next update.Mr. FeministDonut wrote:Actually, just played a game where flamethrower had a very awful expirience, trying to burn out garrisoned building. What's the modifiers against green/building cover?
This could work, I guess.MenciusMoldbug wrote:I think tanks like the Stuart deserve the Pak 37mm Halftrack treatment. 15 to switch to HE; then switching back to AP and then back again to HE should cost 15 again(like cromwells)
There are certain things that the engine allows to see only to you and your team mates (e.g. the "Kicker texts" - showing up when you activate for example HE shot, saying "HE shot loaded") and then are things are always visible to everyone - this was the case for the "allied warmachine" the "arrow icon" above tanks when the ability was active. The only way to make it invisible to opponents was to remove it completely.Walderschmidt wrote:P.S. Second suggestion, what if enemy players can't see how much vet your units have? (or only if they click on the unit?)
Walderschmidt wrote:
As for Mefisto's suggestion - what about locking the AT grenade behind Assault Phase for Germans? That way it's still a tool in the German arsenal, but not immediately available? Or making it like the panzerfaust? Muni to equip and muni to use?