New Pzb39 Panzerjäger squad

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Panzerblitz1
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New Pzb39 Panzerjäger squad

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 06 Jun 2018, 17:38

Hi guys, today i will present you a new Panzerjäger infantry squad who will be available for all Axis doctrine in the next update, this 4 mens squad will replace all Pak's 36 anti tank gun from the 3 WH doctrines.
The Pzb39 Panzerjäger squad is equipped with one Panzerbüsche 39 anti tank rifle able to pierce 33mm of steel at 100 meters, and 22mm at 300 meters, one MP40 submachine gun and 2 Kar's 98 rifles, they will also have some unique abilities.
We will give you more infos regarding this Pzb39 Panzerjäger infantry squad soon.
Credits:
Infantry models & skins by me.
Panzerbüsche 1939 anti tank rifle: model by BurroDiablo, animated by DMZ, skin by jff1.
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RelicCOH 2018-06-12 05-29-24-64.png
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Jalis
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Re: New Pzb39 Panzerjäger squad

Postby Jalis » 06 Jun 2018, 17:54

Damage. Have you decided an acceptable historical distortion (for balance) ; pzb39 - boys, same damage same cost, or will the pzb39 be less efficient due to very small projectile ?

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Panzerblitz1
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Re: New Pzb39 Panzerjäger squad

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 06 Jun 2018, 17:55

Jalis wrote:Damage. Have you decided an acceptable historical distortion (for balance) ; pzb39 - boys, same damage same cost, or will the pzb39 be less efficient due to very small projectile ?


Jalis its the contrary, the Pzb39 historically had more penetration power than the Boys anti-tank rifle, but the model will be set to match the mod meta and the mod balance, the Pzb39 in Bk will not be superior to the Boys AT rifle for sure.
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kwok
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Re: New Pzb39 Panzerjäger squad

Postby kwok » 06 Jun 2018, 18:13

Any news on its cost?
Any chance that this could be a reward unit instead of a flat replace?

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Panzerblitz1
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Re: New Pzb39 Panzerjäger squad

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 06 Jun 2018, 18:19

kwok wrote:Any news on its cost?
Any chance that this could be a reward unit instead of a flat replace?


More infos soon, but this new squad in tests will not be a reward unit for now, having such squad instead of the Pak36 anti-tank gun means more mobility, more chance to survive by retreating and be refitted if things getting too hot, they also will be able to defend themselves a "bit" more compare to the Pak 36 crew if needed, all that very early in games of course.
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kwok
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Re: New Pzb39 Panzerjäger squad

Postby kwok » 06 Jun 2018, 19:20

Interesting. It will be fun to try out and find a new meta. The reason I ask for a reward unit is because the current pak with its HE sounds can act as a replacement for the reward Leig field gun which has been somewhat unusuable as the 50mm pak is needed to counter the recce transitioning to the mid game. While this unit has more durability with maybe even better AT capability, it loses anti inf capability from a faction as a whole. True, axis has plenty of other options like the mg42, but those units are expensive and separate. Some potential openings prior to this update was mg42 (more anti inf focused, trade off AT) OR pak gun (more AT and anti gun, tradeoff mobility) OR basic inf (more mobility, tradeoff micro intense) OR shwim (more mobility and power, tradeoff durability gambit). By making this a replacement at too a high price (not low enough to get say a Volks squad as a part of the opening) will remove a “conservative” style opening from the playbook

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Panzerblitz1
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Re: New Pzb39 Panzerjäger squad

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 06 Jun 2018, 19:23

Thats why this squad needs to be set perfectly in order to not brake other axis options.
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kwok
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Re: New Pzb39 Panzerjäger squad

Postby kwok » 06 Jun 2018, 19:47

Coolio. Well can’t wait to try it. Thanks for the work to even make this an option. I’m excited for all the times I’m going to get to say “fuckyourjeep” in game.

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Jalis
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Re: New Pzb39 Panzerjäger squad

Postby Jalis » 06 Jun 2018, 20:56

Panzerblitz1 wrote:
Jalis wrote:Damage.


Jalis its the contrary, the Pzb39 historically had more penetration power than the Boys anti-tank rifle, but the model will be set to match the mod meta and the mod balance, the Pzb39 in Bk will not be superior to the Boys AT rifle for sure.


You missed the question , I think, so I ask again reducing it the the first word which was the question subject.

Point ; 100 or 300 meters is short range at coh.

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Panzerblitz1
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Re: New Pzb39 Panzerjäger squad

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 06 Jun 2018, 21:05

Jalis wrote:
Panzerblitz1 wrote:
Jalis wrote:Damage.


Jalis its the contrary, the Pzb39 historically had more penetration power than the Boys anti-tank rifle, but the model will be set to match the mod meta and the mod balance, the Pzb39 in Bk will not be superior to the Boys AT rifle for sure.


You missed the question , I think, so I ask again reducing it the the first word which was the question subject.

Point ; 100 or 300 meters is short range at coh.


I answered your question, more velocity + more penetration = more schrapnels hurting the crew inside even with a smaller round, i also told you that we will set all that according to the meta and the balance, can't tell you more, we are testing that.
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Warhawks97
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Re: New Pzb39 Panzerjäger squad

Postby Warhawks97 » 06 Jun 2018, 22:19

Well, so WH gets it....

why not PE. I think it would be much more interesting to have WH more defensive with ranged infantry (volks+sandbags), AT and HMG and sniper.
PE meanwhile could become really interesting with such new mobility aspects next to vehicles. It could literally be the beginning of a transformation for PE to become something completely new. Much more focused on mobility, combined use of different specialized infantry squads and vehicles. And far less static "mirror" of WH.
Just saying that this philosophy (4 men squad, mobile, specialized) would fit so fucking great to PE.

With this plans coming up we will do several mistakes.
1. Who is supposed to be what? Whos the mobile faction, which the defensive on axis side.
2. We create too much of a mirror. WH has mobile AT but everything else is less mobile in the early game while PE gets vehicles. For allied CW is generally less mobile except in terms of early AT.

I could see like 2-3 different squads (Grens with k98, stormpios for close range, This new AT squad) working together with a scout vehicle or even Halftrack. Now you might think: "Gosh, thats OP". Well the downside would be that PE starts with smaller squads and relatively high reinforce cost (like 28 upwards). So a micro intense faction but with huuge potential in skilled hands. Simply something new that really "adds" something to WH just as CW "adds" something to US. If you know what i mean.

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mofetagalactica
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Re: New Pzb39 Panzerjäger squad

Postby mofetagalactica » 06 Jun 2018, 23:23

Warhawks97 wrote:Well, so WH gets it....

why not PE. I think it would be much more interesting to have WH more defensive with ranged infantry (volks+sandbags), AT and HMG and sniper.
PE meanwhile could become really interesting with such new mobility aspects next to vehicles. It could literally be the beginning of a transformation for PE to become something completely new. Much more focused on mobility, combined use of different specialized infantry squads and vehicles. And far less static "mirror" of WH.
Just saying that this philosophy (4 men squad, mobile, specialized) would fit so fucking great to PE.

With this plans coming up we will do several mistakes.
1. Who is supposed to be what? Whos the mobile faction, which the defensive on axis side.
2. We create too much of a mirror. WH has mobile AT but everything else is less mobile in the early game while PE gets vehicles. For allied CW is generally less mobile except in terms of early AT.

I could see like 2-3 different squads (Grens with k98, stormpios for close range, This new AT squad) working together with a scout vehicle or even Halftrack. Now you might think: "Gosh, thats OP". Well the downside would be that PE starts with smaller squads and relatively high reinforce cost (like 28 upwards). So a micro intense faction but with huuge potential in skilled hands. Simply something new that really "adds" something to WH just as CW "adds" something to US. If you know what i mean.


Im pretty sure that this will deppend on how everything looks after the axis doctrines and unit placement rework.

kwok
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Re: New Pzb39 Panzerjäger squad

Postby kwok » 06 Jun 2018, 23:29

Warhawks has a point and I think it all comes down to again... is the mod trying to design factions/doctrines more specialized or well rounded? Making this change encourages more coordination which was the intent of faction design. Your composition of grens, storms, AT squad, and sct car COULD work warhawks... you just have to do it across teams. And honestly, I think you're falling into the same trap you always do when you analyze a game. You're assuming a player has almost a near abundance of resources and that they should be spending everythign they have. By the time you field your proposed composition the allied player would've moved into the mid game already making the composition pretty much useless.

I say it DOES make more sense for it to go to WH rather than PE because you put a scenario where an axis team needs to coordinate their early game build orders to form a coherent strategy or they'll get stomped by allies (a faction with a player base MUCH more experienced in working together than solo'ing). Does the axis team want to do an early mobile strategy? WH can get the new AT squad and volks with K98, meanwhile PE can get the sct car and pios. OR will axis try a more defensive strategy? PE gets the PAK and assault grens with mp44s, WH gets MG42 and spotter. Allied players are forced to do this ALL THE TIME while axis get a free ride to make a well rounded. Devs have made it really clear that they are trying to design a team oriented game, this is solidifying that message.

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Jalis
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Re: New Pzb39 Panzerjäger squad

Postby Jalis » 07 Jun 2018, 04:10

kwok wrote:trying to design factions/doctrines more specialized or well rounded?



Cracked disk spotted :lol:


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