4.9.9 Patch Preview

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kwok
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby kwok » 29 Jul 2017, 12:05

@liferacer
I hate to say this because I'll prob come off as condescending but... I 1v2 hard and expert so (depending on map) when I'm extremely bored. Even that got boring for me because of how easy it is. Vs AI wise... learn to adapt... I can post replays to help if you want to learn how to beat AI really easily... I've done it with all docs so far, yet to win vs experts as allies (and tankhunter PE) but fine with axis (except as tankhunter PE)...

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MarKr
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby MarKr » 29 Jul 2017, 12:20

Liferacer wrote:Yeah sure, but it is not so effective against am mass of enemies. We are playing 2vs4
Then you are playing in a setup that mod would not be balanced in nor in PvP nor in PvE. AI just keeps spamming units and gets percentually more resources from every resource point it takes which in turn allows for it to spam the units. Mod is balanced for 2v2 or 3v3 scenarios which means that it is presumed that each side is capable of fielding certain ammount of units and the opposite side should be at the same time be able able to field number of units of such strength to have a chance to deal with the opponent. Or at least approximately because it depends on many factors but in general it is like that. When you play against AI even in scenarios where there is same number of AI players as real players, then the balance factor is sort of broken because AI always (except for "easy AI" difficulty) gets more resources from points than player, however when number of AI players is same as number of real players, the resource advantage is sort of compensated by the fact that players can think and are usually smart while AI is (despite the letter "I") stupid and predictable. But when you go 2v4 then AI gets so many units that it can win by cheer numbers because several units of lower tier can outnumber and kill a unit of higher tier - and since AI, as already said, spamms units like there is no tommorow, you simply need to count on the fact that you are in a disadvantage. We cannot make balance decision for this mod based on game setups for which it was not made in the first place.

Liferacer wrote:Okay, so the patch is useless for all people, who are playing against the AI - correct?
I wouldn't say ALL of them because you are the only one who said anything so far. But for people who think that Nebel is absolutely needed to win as Luft, then they probably won't play Luft much in the next patch. But hey...there are still 5 more docs in Axis side to play ;)
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Shanks
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Shanks » 29 Jul 2017, 22:00

Liferacer wrote:
speeddemon02 wrote:Have you tried to use the infantry field gun that giebers drop?


Yeah sure, but it is not so effective against am mass of enemies. We are playing 2vs4

Kr0noZ wrote:That's due to the AI always knowing where an offmap ability is used and dodging it. People can't do that but the AI still "sees" the target marker and moves away from it.
However, we balance the mod for PVP and in PVP the nebelwerfer isn't needed (some people might find stronger words for it xD ), therefore it gets removed.


Okay, so the patch is useless for all people, who are playing against the AI - correct?


I can earn 2vs 4 AI expert, using luft, with my younger brother, i not need nebelwerfer, the first phase would be something like, light vehicles with mg 42 + mg42 + AT + mortar .... then AA emplacement + mortars(2) +88 mm ---- then gebirs + planes and panther, intentalo, maybe up to a repetition (I combine with my brother who is TH, good tanks to advance + support of hotchkiss, slow but sure progress),works for me

Although I really do not like playing against the machine, I just play with my brother to have fun together. I invite you to play pvp with us also, if you want, it is clear, or in any case against your friends, or with your team buddies, to understand a little more about these changes ;)
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Panzer-Lehr-Division
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Panzer-Lehr-Division » 30 Jul 2017, 19:33

Got also an idea, how about the panzer 4 beobachtungs panzer in se get HE/AP?so atleast it got bit usefull.
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mofetagalactica
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby mofetagalactica » 31 Jul 2017, 04:03

Hey mark when are you going to make the 37mm USA AT to be able to useHE too instead of that shitty buggy shotgun ( wich bugs when someone gets in and out of the area of that hability fast). Thanks :)

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sgtToni95
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby sgtToni95 » 31 Jul 2017, 09:00

1 question concerning RAF glider changes:

Marine commandos will be limited to one, so what if you call them in, the glider gets destroyed, and you need a new glider?

Will it come with normal sten commandos? Will it come with no squad? Will the player be unable to call in the glider as long as the Marine commando squad is on the field?

Can't really remember if this has already been explained, but i don't think a quick refreshing would be bad for anyone :)

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Tiger1996
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 31 Jul 2017, 10:45

Panzer-Lehr-Division wrote:Got also an idea, how about the panzer 4 beobachtungs panzer in se get HE/AP?so atleast it got bit usefull.

Adding both HE and AP rounds to the command Pz.IV.J in SE doc sounds like a good idea.. since it doesn't even have top MG gunner. Even though I can remember I have actually once suggested this to MarKr, but I can't really remember what was exactly his answer...


mofetagalactica wrote:Hey mark when are you going to make the 37mm USA AT to be able to useHE too instead of that shitty buggy shotgun ( wich bugs when someone gets in and out of the area of that hability fast). Thanks :)

I really like the canister shot... How is it bugged? It just doesn't shoot outside the cone of fire range, which is not a bug! As it doesn't shoot infantry behind the AT gun for example.

@sgtToni95
From what I understand; you will call-in 1 Glider, then it spawns 1 Marine Commando.. if you lose the Glider, then it's possible to call-in another Glider for sure. Regardless if the first Marine Commando is still alive or not, so technically... You can have more than 1 Marine Commando squad at a time. But you will have to pay 525 MP for each! Though I still might be wrong.
=========================================================

I don't want to sound too insistent, but I would honestly like to repeat myself again.. the current speed changes on the change-log are actually game-breaking to some extent. Let's not change the speed for any vehicles please... Speeds are all balanced currently.
However, if any changes would manage to happen.. then it should be very slight overall, and also with extreme carefulness.

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MarKr
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby MarKr » 31 Jul 2017, 10:54

@Panzer-Lehr: The idea of Beobachtungspanzer was (iirc) that it has not special ammo but more radios inside to be able to coordinate fire support from howitzers (VT ability). I'd say it is fine as it is.

@mofetagalactica: How exactly does it bug?

@sgtToni: You cannot build another Marine commandos but they will always spawn with Glider. If it gets destroyed and you call in a new one, you will have another squad of Marine commandos. Technically speaking you can just "delete" the glider yourself to get your hands on more Marine commandos but the glider costs 525MP which is a high cost to pay repeatedly just to get more Marine commandos. We hope that the cost will discourage people from doing it...or at least doing it too often.
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Tiger1996
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 31 Jul 2017, 11:25

I'd say it is fine as it is.

It's very poor against inf though.

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Warhawks97
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 31 Jul 2017, 15:16

Its not intended to kill everything + call in VT with 100 activation range.

And it kills any vehicle or sherman good enough. You shouldnt also kill jumbos with it.


I once had a bug where the 37 mm canister shot inf next or even behind it. The enemie inf came in, the canister shot took too long to fire, inf passed and then came the shot out of the side from the gun.

I think he talks about when inf gets in range, ability activated and before shooting the inf leaves the area. Maybe he has issues there. But thats how i understood it.

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Tiger1996
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 31 Jul 2017, 15:40

Its not intended to kill everything + call in VT with 100 activation range.

I think it should have HE rounds at least, no need for AP shells tho.

I once had a bug where the 37 mm canister shot inf next or even behind it. The enemie inf came in, the canister shot took too long to fire, inf passed and then came the shot out of the side from the gun.

Yes, but this bug was fixed on v4.9.5 btw. You can see it on the change-log too... Though it would be surprising if it happened again.. but I never saw it happening since then.

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sgtToni95
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby sgtToni95 » 31 Jul 2017, 16:06

MarKr wrote:Technically speaking you can just "delete" the glider yourself to get your hands on more Marine commandos but the glider costs 525MP which is a high cost to pay repeatedly just to get more Marine commandos. We hope that the cost will discourage people from doing it...or at least doing it too often.


Well... many people around here seem to love abuses.. that's why you modified how command trucks takes damage from AT weapons (which is really bad if you're just trying to just move it back to a safer location for real gameplay reasons).

I think making a small forum section/locked post where players who are known (and proved with replays) to use certain abuses are publically reported for doing so (with updating if the thing continues to happen), so that people will know what they can expect from theese players and maybe avoid them, or won't let them join a game unless they're not using the "abusable" faction. I saw ignoring people is in many cases the best solution.

We had the example of what "community ostracism" can do with certain repeatedly-non-nice players having to leave the game due to the impossibility to find a game, i hope people avoided for abuses are clever enough not to bring on this thing untill the point they'll have to leave, and to just stop.

Not sure about marine commandos: if it was possible to find any alternative solution maybe it would not be bad. Maybe even just removing the "destroy" command from it could be something, at least a player willing to abuse it could have to waste some ammo to take it down, or to keep some gun busy at shooting it for some time.

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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby JimQwilleran » 31 Jul 2017, 16:16

sgtToni95 wrote:
MarKr wrote:Technically speaking you can just "delete" the glider yourself to get your hands on more Marine commandos but the glider costs 525MP which is a high cost to pay repeatedly just to get more Marine commandos. We hope that the cost will discourage people from doing it...or at least doing it too often.


Well... many people around here seem to love abuses.. that's why you modified how command trucks takes damage from AT weapons (which is really bad if you're just trying to just move it back to a safer location for real gameplay reasons).

I think making a small forum section/locked post where players who are known (and proved with replays) to use certain abuses are publically reported for doing so (with updating if the thing continues to happen), so that people will know what they can expect from theese players and maybe avoid them, or won't let them join a game unless they're not using the "abusable" faction. I saw ignoring people is in many cases the best solution.

We had the example of what "community ostracism" can do with certain repeatedly-non-nice players having to leave the game due to the impossibility to find a game, i hope people avoided for abuses are clever enough not to bring on this thing untill the point they'll have to leave, and to just stop.

Not sure about marine commandos: if it was possible to find any alternative solution maybe it would not be bad. Maybe even just removing the "destroy" command from it could be something, at least a player willing to abuse it could have to waste some ammo to take it down, or to keep some gun busy at shooting it for some time.


I am pretty sure people will abuse that as you say. 525 mp is actually very small price imo. Unlimited crawl unit is actually one of the most op things I can imagine. This way you can counter any infantry assault with numerous hidden units everywhere.

omfgitsrhod
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby omfgitsrhod » 31 Jul 2017, 17:24

I almost forgot. Flakpanzer gepard skin in WM defense doctrine still has that purple discrepancy.
And lastly, i forgot the name but a specific engineer squad in CW, when static (standing still) drops their rifles and raises their arms sideways (can be seen when zoomed in)
Please follow up. Hope this helps. Thanks!

mofetagalactica
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby mofetagalactica » 31 Jul 2017, 19:09

MarKr wrote:
@mofetagalactica: How exactly does it bug?


Somethimes it makes the gun get bugged and dosnt shoot or move ever again.

Grey25
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Grey25 » 02 Aug 2017, 18:17

What about german tank in "Infantry only"? I dont know what tank, Pz III N or something like that.

speeddemon02
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby speeddemon02 » 03 Aug 2017, 01:34

that was asked near the top on page 1 and answered with that they should be disabled.

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Tiger1996
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 03 Aug 2017, 21:15

Hopefully no slow ass Panthers, or turbo Shermans becoming some sort of race cars on the next patch.

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Kr0noZ
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Kr0noZ » 03 Aug 2017, 23:11

On that subject, I had a 4 hour long talk with Markr in which we also discussed that; let's say we found a reasonable middle ground, but I don't know what Wolf might have to say and there has been no mention of any numbers in the changelog as of yet (I think), so I can't actually say what's gonna happen.

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MarKr
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby MarKr » 03 Aug 2017, 23:12

Tiger1996 wrote:I completely oppose any changes to the Sherman speeds. These speed changes are totally bullshit.

Tiger1996 wrote:Both gameplay and balance wise as well as realism and historical accuracy.. changing the Sherman speeds as in the change-log preview is completely bullshit.

Tiger1996 wrote:The reason why I am so concerned and so touchy when it comes to be about changing vehicle speeds, is because I consider it a big deal.. the speed of a particular tank is vital for its overall combat effectiveness..

Tiger1996 wrote:I really don't understand how suddenly Allied tanks became too slow to the point that they need urgent speed buff somehow!! Seriously, WTF.
....
I have said more than enough... Don't think I have to explain my opinion any further.

Tiger1996 wrote:I am honestly still very concerned regarding the Sherman speed changes.. for me, I consider the current speed changes represented on the change-log to be somewhat game breaking. .....

Tiger1996 wrote:I don't want to sound too insistent, but I would honestly like to repeat myself again.. the current speed changes on the change-log are actually game-breaking to some extent. Let's not change the speed for any vehicles please... Speeds are all balanced currently.

Tiger1996 wrote:Hopefully no slow ass Panthers, or turbo Shermans becoming some sort of race cars on the next patch.
Jeeez man, we are not blind, we can read. You don't like the changes, WE GET IT. Repeating it over and over again will not make us understand it "more" than we already do, because we already fully understand your point of view. If we felt convinced by what ALL people (not just you) said here concerning this matter, we would revise our decision but it is enough to say it ONCE repeating it tons of times will not give to your point of view more weight and thus it will not make us more likely to reconsider. So PLEASE stop this crap.
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Tiger1996
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 03 Aug 2017, 23:33

Oops, MarKr's head is gonna explode.. so watch out everyone! :mrgreen:


Ok, sorry for being too repetitive :D

mofetagalactica
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby mofetagalactica » 04 Aug 2017, 01:45

I love the changes to the shermans speed, cant wait to try it out in-game ♥ thanks

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seha
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby seha » 04 Aug 2017, 09:00

@tiger
you should form a band and sing it. lyrics could be *speed changes are bad. and this is very sad* haha



but i saw all the discussions. and i still agree with everyone who say the changes for shermans speed are inconsistent. i know that many people who agree together that the speed changes are bad...still disagree with each other in other subjects. but at start we see the reasons for speed changes were "hoping for better historical accuracy" but later it turns out to be less historically accurate and maybe not better for gameplay too.

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Tiger1996
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 04 Aug 2017, 10:20

@tiger
you should form a band and sing it. lyrics could be *speed changes are bad. and this is very sad* haha

I really would :lol:

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Panzerblitz1
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 04 Aug 2017, 18:58

The funny thing regarding the speed change is that you will even barely noticed it if we didn't told you that, its not that a big deal, really.
We will see after some tests and tweak it if it needs to be tweaked.
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