4.9.6. Beta II

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Jalis
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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby Jalis » 06 Jan 2017, 20:26

Panzerblitz1 wrote:
Jalis wrote: If I can understand Panzerbiltz make the promotion, this is its job, there is lot of optimisn in the advertising.


No, its not my job ;) but thank you anyway.



It was a reference to your public relation role in the bk team, nothing else.

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Panzerblitz1
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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 06 Jan 2017, 20:36

ah i didn't understood :)
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Kasbah
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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby Kasbah » 06 Jan 2017, 21:18

If you want to lower capabilities you could as well replace tanks by soldiers on bicycles armed with panzerfausts

Doing all this work, modelling, coding just to replace a unit with another that does not add almost anything (a mobile arty with 6 min cooling time that is not able to do anything else, costs 700 mp and 150 ammo per shot) seems to me a waste of time and energy, both for you and for the gameplay, but you know what you are doing.

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Panzerblitz1
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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 06 Jan 2017, 21:29

Kasbah wrote:If you want to lower capabilities you could as well replace tanks by soldiers on bicycles armed with panzerfausts

Doing all this work, modelling, coding just to replace a unit with another that does not add almost anything (a mobile arty with 6 min cooling time that is not able to do anything else, costs 700 mp and 150 ammo per shot) seems to me a waste of time and energy, both for you and for the gameplay, but you know what you are doing.



Yes we know what we are doing.
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Tiger1996
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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby Tiger1996 » 06 Jan 2017, 21:30

Kasbah wrote:and useless. I don't see the point of having it. Could have been some way worth. I wouldn't mind to pay more and have a lower cooldown but like that I would clearly keep the V1

SturmTiger doesn't seem to be any useless... I'd prefer it over the V1 any day.
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However, I am wondering how PE is going to counter Quad AA emplacements now.. after delaying the mortar half-track; this is only getting worse actually!
Now it just makes more sense to restrict the Quad AA emplacements to be accessible only via AB Engineers. This would make AB Engineers more useful too, and 320 MP for the AB engineers is probably too much as well.. as it could be also lowered to 220 or something.

This won't be a disadvantage to AB doc at all. Because no one else has such an early access to the equivalent 20mm flaks or Bofors anyway, while AB would keep having an advantage actually.. as they would be still able to construct naked versions of the Quads, yet using normal Engineers as much early as they ever want... Which is something others can't do.

Kasbah
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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby Kasbah » 06 Jan 2017, 21:42

Panzerblitz1 wrote:
Kasbah wrote:If you want to lower capabilities you could as well replace tanks by soldiers on bicycles armed with panzerfausts

Doing all this work, modelling, coding just to replace a unit with another that does not add almost anything (a mobile arty with 6 min cooling time that is not able to do anything else, costs 700 mp and 150 ammo per shot) seems to me a waste of time and energy, both for you and for the gameplay, but you know what you are doing.


Yes we know what we are doing.


Have fun with it then

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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby JimQwilleran » 06 Jan 2017, 22:00

I have a ridiculous problem with the new installer. It's pretty weird. I run it, installation goes well, but then something strange happens to my internet connection. I am still connected to my network, but it loses internet access :/... - I am connected to my wi-fi - wi-fi is not reaching the web.

At the first moment I didn't realise it was installer's fault. After updating the game to 4.9.6 beta I noticed I lost the connection. So I played a bit with AI. Then I turned on and off the "airplane mode". The connection restarted. Then I ran 4.9.5 patch to play online a bit (not many people has the beta II patch) and my connection broke again. This time I had to restart everything. The same thing happened again when I tried to switch versions.

Any ideas, lol?

Paso95
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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby Paso95 » 06 Jan 2017, 22:41

I'm also interested about the removal of v1. Why did you decide to remove it completely? You can leave it as a reward unit cause it has some pros and cons compared to sturmtiger, exactly as many other reward units (grille-stupa, stugs or leig-pak 38).

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Panzerblitz1
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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 07 Jan 2017, 01:14

The v1 is not a game changer regarding the gameplay, and mostly used to finish an already won game, this unit couldn't stay in bk, too unreal, the Sturmtiger is a great replacement who offer more realism and add a little spice to the very good terror doctrine, we care about bk, and about the balance, it was always our goal from day one, must be surprising for some, but it is the truth, some changes are necessary and can be discussed, the v1 removal will not be discussed and is definitive, thank you for your understanding.
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Jalis
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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby Jalis » 07 Jan 2017, 07:19

It is hard to think dev could lack of imagination or ambition, when their players are so conservative.

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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby kwok » 07 Jan 2017, 11:41

Players are conservative or players are stubborn? I'm hella drunk and prob shouldn't be online but come on... we have a fuckin whole forum about solutions and even proposed solutions players can take on themselves to solve "balance" that a near collective whole the community agrees on. But when it comes to players putting the money where their mouth is they are cowards. Like when axis only players refuse to play allies but complain that allies are OP. Or when players in general complain a shit ton in game but refuse to come to forum because of "politics". Or when allied players speak so much shit about OP axis but don't bother trying alternate solutions except to exploit and spam the latest exploit (omg gardening 105mm mortars and cqc. I swear to god, it's like linden and other urban maps are the only damn map allies players are willing to play on with their assault engineer opening).

It's not the devs fault when the community fucking asks to raise axis cost, lower axis cost, raise axis costs, lower axis costs every goddamn patch. The only thing the devs are guilty of are pandering to the loudest whiners and trying too hard to please everyone instead of sticking to their own core values. Grow a damn spine.

If it wasn't for the fact that I care too much about the friends I made in this mod and sega gets their damn modding tools straight for coh2, I'd be done with all of this community. Thanks god for players like sgt Toni and playbetter and all the other fresh minds that come into the game with an open mind and don't just complain every time they lose.

I'm both sorry and not sorry, I will come back tomorrow and edit. For now I'm gonna sleep off the alcohol and hope tomorrow is better. Sorry again. I got a lotta shit going on and you all are friends to me to an extent and I hate to see you all fall apart to stupid reasons. Long live bk and fuck all who play victim over improvement.

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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 07 Jan 2017, 13:07

I like drunken Kwok more....

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Tiger1996
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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby Tiger1996 » 07 Jan 2017, 14:55

I am not into discussing whether if the devs are ambition enough or not... Will completely avoid arguing on this matter.. but Kwok, I think you should really stop drinking alcohol (like u say) and start to think more progressively.
Even though I agree with most of what u said.. yet, I guess I have to comment on these following 2 lines:-
But when it comes to players putting the money where their mouth is they are cowards.

I could probably guess what u mean here.. and I have to disagree with u... As I believe that those who spend their money out of their own will (in any way) for the sake of this mod, although it's free.. as they don't really have to do that; Are in fact true conservative players. As they gain nothing really in return! Keeping in mind that those who receive the money on the other hand, can always choose not to receive it.
I wouldn't say those people are any "cowards" to be honest...
The only thing the devs are guilty of are pandering to the loudest whiners and trying too hard to please everyone instead of sticking to their own core values.

Don't get me wrong though, but devs efforts are indeed always appreciated. No doubt! They are doing too much work for sure... As I believe they are also doing their best to please everyone, which is not a bad thing after all. But who exactly are those you labeling as "loudest whiners" ? Would u consider yourself being one of them if u ever propose an idea and then the devs would implement it?! The new FoW system was one of your ideas, or am I mistaking?
They are not "pandering" to anyone.. and there is absolutely nothing that would force them to do so at all. As they are just trying to please everybody, which is "again" a very good thing!
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Regardless though...
I have to say that removing the V1 was a very good decision btw.

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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby MarKr » 07 Jan 2017, 17:37

Kasbah wrote:compared to the V1 I still don't see any benefit, but well, no problem to keep playing old versions
Nobody else seems to have such a huge problem with V1 removal...Is your strategy really so much dependent on this ability? And even if it is, what can V1 do and Sturmtiger cannot? It has same destructive effect, ST has cheaper shot, needs to get in range but has range of 200 which is more than enough on most maps to fire over half a map and even if it had less range it has an armor of Kingtiger so it can go head to head with 17 pounders and bounce them off. So is it really so much trouble for you to drive this unit somewhere and fire? Or where is the problem?
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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby Wh1tetiger » 07 Jan 2017, 18:28

Gave myself a vow not to engage in more discussions with the developers, but I couldn't resist. I think it's not that the V1 was removed from the game, and how it was done. Before, did the vote and the results make the final decision. Now, two or three people decide what's best for the entire community, I want to ask a question: "on what basis do you construct your opinion in the absolute and think that it is true ?" Maybe still for these issues when something changes to something after all, at least have the decency to hold a vote,in the end you make this mod not for himself but for the players, and just a little to respect them and listen everything we have... Or we have a democracy only in words?

You must agree, so just make the vote (even for the species), falsificarea results, but toxicity will fall, players will see that their opinion of interested, although the vector which was taken largely as I think it is not correct. Yes, and a lot of players feel the same way, however, because of inertia, many do not want to spoil their nerves, to register at the forum to write something that would likely be rejected, as the developers always know better than everyone else. But still I would like to remind the developers that the mod they do for the players, not for yourself...

p.s: AT squads in ambush should auto-fire - This paragraph does not want to accept, ambush it out and wait to attack tanks in the back. Now what ? Forced to ban open fire (do not remember they have this option or not). Very strange and controversial decision. Imagine with SP or Croco which are very difficult to break from the Shrek "head" ambush also allows you to watch for the tank and attack him when he goes lurking about the Garbage you some idea. Or explain on what basis was this decision taken ?

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Panzerblitz1
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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 07 Jan 2017, 18:54

There are things who makes me mad when i see that kind of post, we did the changes ONLY for pvp players who were asking more sugar to their gameplay, and don't start to give me before it was a democratic movement etc...etc...when Xalibur only had the last word, with or without poll.

Its not because you were away from bk for quite a long time that you need to doubt on our decisions here, we've done what it had to be done to have a balanced bk, for the first time since his creation, yes now the axis are more balanced with allies, and yes its way more fun to play, you're not the only pvp player here, and attacking the dev team will not be the best choice either, especially on quality work.

We are working for the bk community as always, i could say even more now, and saying that bk is made only for devs is silly.
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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby Wh1tetiger » 07 Jan 2017, 19:05

Panzerblitz1 wrote:There are things who makes me mad when i see that kind of post, we did the changes ONLY for pvp players who were asking more sugar to their gameplay, and don't start to give me before it was a democratic movement etc...etc...when Xalibur only had the last word, with or without poll.

Its not because you were away from bk for quite a long time that you need to doubt on our decisions here, we've done what it had to be done to have a balanced bk, for the first time since his creation, yes now the axis are more balanced with allies, and yes its way more fun to play, you're not the only pvp player here, and attacking the dev team will not be the best choice either, especially on quality work.

We are working for the bk community as always, i could say even more now, and saying that bk is made only for devs is silly.

Post about anything. We did better we are cool, everything up to this bullshit. But now this is OUR team that made the mod most balanced in its history... That's just PanzerBlitz1 post was about something else. You keep saying the same thing - what have YOU DONE BALANCE THE FUCKING IN ITS HISTORY. Now I said something about balance ? I only said about what may still need to listen to players isn't it ? That take a vote gather more opinions. Why do YOU THINK THAT YOU are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ? Only at because of what you did the fucking balance in the entire history of fashion? Well done you fucking guys. I suggest you in the caption writing, we fucking guys, we steady the fucking balance. What do I always say what are you bitching ? Yes, I'm happy for you, really already beginning to feel sick from one and the same shit. And what about Xali - Yes, the final word was for him, however, the opinion of the players it interesovalo. And this shit when he was developing was not.

Warning sent, if you don't chill out you're out.

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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby Tiger1996 » 07 Jan 2017, 19:10

Guys, let's not derail this topic to such pointless discussions any further please... WhiteTiger, you say that devs have to respect the players and start composing some polls.. which is something they have been already doing btw, but only sometimes when it felt necessary enough!
While u probably forget to mention on the other hand that also devs are to be respected for their hard work and huge efforts on the mod...
Don't u see how MarKr asked Kasbah why he thinks V1 should exactly stay? I would say that this is considered some sort of an inquiry.. as he definitely takes his opinion into account! So right now, I could probably manage to ask the same question again; where is exactly the problem? is it really important to make a poll regarding V1 removal? :? I honestly don't think so.
SturmTiger is as cool as V1, or way cooler in fact. And it was requested by us in the first place.. us = the players!
I noticed that it hits much more reliably than the V1 as well... So, all is fine.. let's just move on to the next beta release; in my opinion the balance is currently great. Just few things I might consider to be "bugs" which need to be fixed and then that's all of it...

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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby MarKr » 07 Jan 2017, 19:21

I will react to Wh1tetiger too. You say that there should be a poll on decisions and that we make decisions and don't care what people want...First of all - whenever there is a poll there are always some votes for and some against, so you can never please everybody. Yes, you can do what majority wants but that will leave the minority angry/dissatisfied anyway. And if you take a look at the comments you will see that only Kabash is mad about the change and Paso95 expressed interest in reasoning behind the V1 removal but didn't say he minds the removal. So out of all the people who commented in this thread, 2 people mind...that is still minority.
Second thing - you say we only do what we want. So tell me: Why was Hellcat added to the AB doctrine? Why was 95mm Cromwell added to the RAF doc? Why was it made impossible for Stormtroopers to pop out of emplacements? Why was introduced the new mine-laying system? Why were the 75mm L48 guns standardized? All of these were made because PLAYERS asked for it. Actually the Hellcat for AB and Cromwell for RAF was implemented ONLY because people cried that these doctrines need those units even though we never believed it to be so (and now it shows we were sort of right). So don't tell me we don't listen to what people want.
really already beginning to feel sick from one and the same shit.
To be honest you really say the same stuff again and again and we begin to feel sick of it too...just saying.

And to address your way of speaking here, I suggest to you to read this thread: viewtopic.php?f=22&p=15255#p15255 (especially the part about being rude and how you can say same things in a rude and polite way)
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Panzerblitz1
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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 07 Jan 2017, 19:23

Wh1tetiger is perma ban for menace/insults via pm, we will not tolerate this kind of attitude here, case closed.
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kwok
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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby kwok » 07 Jan 2017, 23:08

Sorry everyone for the drunk message. I didn't read the responses, but it looks like some people DID respond. So I won't delete my post to keep context for whoever wants to read it. I'll tone it down. Sorry if I fanned any flames, I'll sober up.

Happy New Years everyone.

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Tiger1996
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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby Tiger1996 » 07 Jan 2017, 23:55

Alright, so I would like to bring up this topic about the AA Quads once again! If nobody minds.
viewtopic.php?f=16&p=15781#p15710
As I really liked this initiative;
kwok wrote:Eh this point to be honest... even if you put AA up a tier it really doesn't change the game based on the current "meta". I don't think there's a point to argue and if it comes down to a poll or something I'll probably say yes to some of Tiger's changes because why not buff allies with cheaper AB engineers. Almost all other suggestions don't change the current meta.

The whole thing about AA Quads is actually linked or related to another issue.. as it was also reported how AA Quads are able to destroy the Pz4.D so easily as well.

Keeping in mind the PE mortar HT is now delayed... Then my suggestions would be to restrict the emplacement versions to be accessible only via AB engineers, in return AB engineers would be 100 MP cheaper too. Normal engineers should be still able to construct naked Quad AA versions though...

Probably we can start a poll for it, if necessary! But I think there is no need actually.. as I don't request such a thing either.

it's your call guys! ;) Let me know what u think...

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jonnyyankee
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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby jonnyyankee » 08 Jan 2017, 11:17

Have more lag with this update :(

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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby Jagdpanther » 08 Jan 2017, 11:26

jonnyyankee wrote:Have more lag with this update :(


Me too and other people experienced it too. I think its the new AI from the Beta I. Devs please fix this, lag is the biggest problem of BK and now there is more.

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MarKr
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Re: 4.9.6. Beta II

Postby MarKr » 08 Jan 2017, 11:45

On things such as these (AI - lag) it would be welcomed if you could provide more info...e.g. Wolf had observed (though he's not sure) that the game tends lag more with CW AI in it and that it seems that it runs smoothly and then there is a moment (as if someone used a switch) when it starts lagging more (that would mean there is some trigger to the lagging). Have you observed something similar? Or do you have some observations of your own?

Note: In this case stubbornly claiming "It happens all the time no matter the faction" without really giving it thought will not help; rather the opposite because it might get us off the track in finding the cause so please, if you make a statement in this case, try to be as objective as possible.
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