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Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 06 Dec 2016, 13:41
by jonnyyankee
Hi all well i didn't see any changes at AI i'm working in this new beta to improve AI because for me always was so important had good cpu , But really nice Panzer III N i love it thanks .. for all this good changes
Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 06 Dec 2016, 15:21
by Jalis
Jagdpanther wrote:
Is really that hard to make the difference between what is acceptable and not? Do you think the people who are talking about historic accuracy/realism are talking about the things you mentioned?
My answer was loaded with second degree humour and irony. It can even be interpreted as a rejecting reaction against constant bk poster complains for something they have for free. It is forgetting some people work on their free time, while others have just to play ... and whine.
Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 06 Dec 2016, 16:45
by Jagdpanther
Jalis wrote:Jagdpanther wrote:
Is really that hard to make the difference between what is acceptable and not? Do you think the people who are talking about historic accuracy/realism are talking about the things you mentioned?
My answer was loaded with second degree humour and irony. It can even be interpreted as a rejecting reaction against constant bk poster complains for something they have for free. It is forgetting some people work on their free time, while others have just to play ... and whine.
So i cant express my opinion because they work for free? And expressing your opinion is complaining these days?
Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 06 Dec 2016, 17:28
by Jalis
Jagdpanther wrote:And expressing your opinion is complaining these days?
These days and here ... let me a moment to think ... YES
It is no more a forum, it is the Wailing wall.
Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 06 Dec 2016, 17:45
by Viper
nothing is entirely for free. but all efforts are appreciated. and no one forces anybody to keep working here. at the end everyone does what he likes to.
Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 06 Dec 2016, 17:45
by Jalis
jonnyyankee wrote:Hi all well i didn't see any changes at AI i'm working in this new beta to improve AI because for me always was so important had good cpu , But really nice Panzer III N i love it thanks .. for all this good changes
Jonnyyankee, BK is a pvp mod, AI is not a priority, even not something to considere. I think the only think related to AI, updated at BK, is the luaconstr, and only to take alive the inf only. A long time ago perhaps BK had a descent AI, but nobody care this part of the game anymore. It is simple the Vcoh AI is better, with one exception. Brits HQ trucks call-in, Wolf fixed. In the last 5 fives years it s the only noticable efforts I remember.
Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 06 Dec 2016, 19:07
by Panzerblitz1
Lets come back to the subject here, thx.
Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 06 Dec 2016, 23:31
by Armynator
Played a round today. I think the PZ III is bugged or just OP - almost anything bounces frontal and on sides.
M5A1 and normal Sherman are not able to penetrate it frontal, and even the 76w sherman needs serval hits. (Same with 76mm AT gun, often needs serval hits to kill it)
Besides that, it small gun easily kills shermans frontal. Probably it was able to do that in reality, but 2-hitting shermans and 1-hitting inf with its OP-HE of doom at the fire rate of a minigun seems a bit unintended to me. Especially with that new bazooka aim time it is really hard to kill.
I don't like that fog of war change too. Arty is really hard to locate, wich is perfect for arty wars. Same with snipers and SE mortars.
Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 06 Dec 2016, 23:53
by JimQwilleran
Panzer III should not be able to pen shermans frontally. It should have problems even with Stuarts due to low velocity of the shell.
Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 07 Dec 2016, 00:15
by Warhawks97
Tank IV´s are tricky.... and Tank III uses same armor type as i heared. Actually we would need 4 armor types alone for tank IV. The D, the normal, the H/J and skirts.
As long as this is not the case the US guns will always behave strange against these targets. And now with tank III a new one would be required actually. But i know its a hell of work and wouldnt do that even by my own (or only when i would get paid lol). So the tank III will always behave strange no matter how you adjust the guns.
Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 07 Dec 2016, 00:48
by jonnyyankee
Jalis wrote:jonnyyankee wrote:Hi all well i didn't see any changes at AI i'm working in this new beta to improve AI because for me always was so important had good cpu , But really nice Panzer III N i love it thanks .. for all this good changes
Jonnyyankee, BK is a pvp mod, AI is not a priority, even not something to considere. I think the only think related to AI, updated at BK, is the luaconstr, and only to take alive the inf only. A long time ago perhaps BK had a descent AI, but nobody care this part of the game anymore. It is simple the Vcoh AI is better, with one exception. Brits HQ trucks call-in, Wolf fixed. In the last 5 fives years it s the only noticable efforts I remember.
I know BK its a pvp Mod but . I post few years ago a good work and changes to AI because not all play pvp . Some people like to play with AI like me well later .. I'll go to post my work in progress about my AI improve have a nice day.
Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 07 Dec 2016, 01:49
by Jalis
Pz III op
Looking at value is table PZ III seems not different from PZ IV stubby. I didnt detected modifier that make a difference between them for penetration value. So no reason for the Pz III N resist more or can pen more easilly than stubby does.
Could or would a KWK 37 75 mm L24 pen a Sherman is an other matter. However looking at value at BK 4.64 (a version I m sure it s a pre WOLF and MARKR one) I just see target table for this weapon were the same. So this question is not related to the 4.9.6 but could have been debated years ago.
AI. Good luck Jonny and have fun. At least your results will have interest for me. It is more than some people who play bk compstomp or multi coop vs AI. Last pool on bk forum showed almost 55 per cent voters were pve players. But these players were not very active posters and with time became completly silent. I can suppose they understood no hope situation change / become better for them. And really my opinion is simply a suitable mod for solo or multi coop can only be a different version. A kind of bk solo v1.0 ... something unlikely to happen.
Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 07 Dec 2016, 09:14
by heinrich_fritz13
the maus did see combat!
the russian says that it participated in the defense of a certain factory..
there is also an american accounts where a US tractor sneak up behind a hulldown maus tank and buried it while it's crew is still inside..
maybe we can include the maus tank as a reward unit for the jagdtiger. since both has the same gun, and the jagdtiger has thicker armor frontally than maus. so only once can be called in?. i mean. we all know the maus is very very slow and can be crippled by a simple sticky bomb or gammon bombs.
Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 07 Dec 2016, 09:35
by Panzerblitz1
Armynator wrote:Played a round today. I think the PZ III is bugged or just OP - almost anything bounces frontal and on sides.
M5A1 and normal Sherman are not able to penetrate it frontal, and even the 76w sherman needs serval hits. (Same with 76mm AT gun, often needs serval hits to kill it
A round isn't enough to test units and its PvP or AI?, the Pz 3 armor value is the same as the Panzer IV, normal with a 70mm armor thickness frontally, and YES, the 75mm (even low velocity) can take out EASELY shermans at mid/close distance) even more with HEAT shells.
I personally tested the unit versus all shermans among others tanks, and its just absolutely fine, 75/76mm eat alive this unit.
Jimquivellan wrote:Panzer III should not be able to pen shermans frontally. It should have problems even with Stuarts due to low velocity of the shell.
Of course he can!, the 75mm short makes stuarts pancakes and can frontally penetrate sherman's, like all panzer IV stubbies. (its not new guys)
Jalis wrote:Looking at value is table PZ III seems not different from PZ IV stubby. I didnt detected modifier that make a difference between them for penetration value. So no reason for the Pz III N resist more or can pen more easilly than stubby does.
Of course! nothing is changed regarding the armor, its the same as the Panzer IV.
heinrich_fritz13 wrote:the maus did see combat!
the russian says that it participated in the defense of a certain factory..
there is also an american accounts where a US tractor sneak up behind a hulldown maus tank and buried it while it's crew is still inside..
maybe we can include the maus tank as a reward unit for the jagdtiger. since both has the same gun, and the jagdtiger has thicker armor frontally than maus. so only once can be called in?. i mean. we all know the maus is very very slow and can be crippled by a simple sticky bomb or gammon bombs.
NO, and please Stop asking for more models here, The Maus never saw combat, and you just can't compare the Maus armor with anything in game, so please, again STOP asking for models, First: its not the subject here on the V 4.9.6 beta, and should be in "suggestion" , second: we can't use it! thank you for your understanding.
Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 07 Dec 2016, 09:52
by Paso95
I think you should add also the kugelpanzer!! It was used by germans in 1945! So it fits perfectly in bk mod!
Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 07 Dec 2016, 10:35
by Viper
agreed with panzerblitz here. panzer 3 is not op. i played with it a couple of times. and it's not more op than shermans with high explosive.
but how about you add the m1a2 abrams?
it saw combat in 2003 during invasion of iraq
we are very accurate with history here
Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 07 Dec 2016, 11:41
by Jagdpanther
heinrich_fritz13 wrote:the maus did see combat!
the russian says that it participated in the defense of a certain factory..
there is also an american accounts where a US tractor sneak up behind a hulldown maus tank and buried it while it's crew is still inside..
maybe we can include the maus tank as a reward unit for the jagdtiger. since both has the same gun, and the jagdtiger has thicker armor frontally than maus. so only once can be called in?. i mean. we all know the maus is very very slow and can be crippled by a simple sticky bomb or gammon bombs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrlPcTxuaLM
Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 08 Dec 2016, 10:15
by Panzerblitz1
Jimquivellan point out that the Panzer IV's KwK37 short 75mm normal AP ammo is doing a great deal of damage on shermans frontally, we will fix that, now all stubbies will not penetrate easely shermans frontally except with their HEAT rounds, HEAT shells price will be reduced.
Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 08 Dec 2016, 22:39
by XAHTEP39
Panzerblitz1 wrote:Jimquivellan point out that the Panzer IV's KwK37 short 75mm normal AP ammo is doing a great deal of damage on shermans frontally, we will fix that, now all stubbies will not penetrate easely shermans frontally except with their HEAT rounds, HEAT shells price will be reduced.
And I note "stubby" german HTs/APC (250,251,234) - they have... timed
APCR-shoots on 75-mm KwK37 L/24, it is "magic". It is must be as "stubby" tanks - HEAT shoots.
Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 09 Dec 2016, 00:27
by Jalis
Are you aware, like I said above it is like that since bk exist ? This situation is know for years now. kwk 37 L 37 is not alone. Under rated or over rated, it is large part of the whole target table which is blattantly inexact.
There is several possible reasons for it was never corrected.
It is a long, consuming time work.
So many changes will occurs that game balance will be affected.
Actuals dev could not have source and calculation method former devs used to makes the TT.
kwk 37 is a kind of exception. Most problem are allies side.
Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 09 Dec 2016, 12:47
by Panzerblitz1
The panzer III/IV's stubby (kwk37 l24) like i said has been nerfed in front of Shermans tank simply because the main use of this unit is infantry support, yes the short 75mm can deal with light armored vehicles but not pierce easely Shermans frontal armor, the HEAT "timed" round was more a "self defence" round than a normal Anti tank regular AP Shell like his big brothers with the long 75mm anti tank guns.
The Panzer IV F2/H/J were made for that anti tank role.
To keep the balance we will reduce the price of stubbies units, and their self defence HEAT rounds, like that everybody will be happy.
Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 09 Dec 2016, 13:18
by Leonida [525]
Panzerblitz1 wrote:To keep the balance we will reduce the price of stubbies units, and their self defence HEAT rounds, like that everybody will be happy.
Will this price reduction include also stubby 75mm HTs and their apcr? maybe its possible to remove apcr and add a single heat shot even to them
Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 09 Dec 2016, 13:38
by Panzerblitz1
Im talking about tanks here, not sdkfz's, stubbies new values will be for all kwk37 l24 guns though.
Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 14 Dec 2016, 19:22
by XAHTEP39
What is about unspeechable units (
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=984) ?
Re: 4.9.6 Beta
Posted: 15 Dec 2016, 09:29
by Blitzkriegrekrut
Panzerblitz1 wrote:NO, and please Stop asking for more models here, The Maus never saw combat, and you just can't compare the Maus armor with anything in game, so please, again STOP asking for models, First: its not the subject here on the V 4.9.6 beta, and should be in "suggestion" , second: we can't use it! thank you for your understanding.
Ah sure, but the Superpershing that never see combat in WW 2 is in game (and its just fucked up, very op).
Seriously... please return to historical correctness.