Panzer III Ausf. N

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Panzerblitz1
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Panzer III Ausf. N

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 05 Nov 2016, 19:49

Panzer III Ausf. N incoming.

Sd.Kfz. 141 Panzer III Ausf. N


Main armament:

75-millimetre (2.95 in) KwK 37 L/24 cannon + 2 to 3x 7.92 mm Maschinengewehr 34.

(short-barreled howitzer-like gun used for the initial models of the Panzer IV, a low-velocity gun designed for anti-infantry and close-support work.
For defensive purposes, the Ausf. N was equipped with rounds of HEAT ammunition that could penetrate 70 to 100 millimetres (2.76 to 3.94 in) of armour
depending on the round's variant, but these were strictly used for self-defence)


Armour: 70/50/50mm

Ausf. N model had a solid 50 mm (1.97 in) plate on the front and rear, with additional layer of offset 20 mm (0.79 in) homogeneous steel plate on the front hull and turret,
with the N model having an additional 5 mm (0.20 in) Schürzen spaced armour on the hull sides, and 8 mm (0.31 in) on the turret sides and rear.
This additional frontal armor gave the Panzer III frontal protection from most British and Soviet anti-tank guns at all but close ranges.
However, the sides were still vulnerable to many enemy weapons, including anti-tank rifles at close ranges.


Speed:

Road: 40 km/h (25 mph)
Off-road: 20 km/h (12 mph)


Year Produced:

1942/43, 614 units in total.
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Re: Something is hiding...something new...

Postby Tiger1996 » 05 Nov 2016, 19:52

Pz3 L with skirts??!! Also known as Pz3 Ausf.M ?! :o
Really?? :shock:

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Re: Something is hiding...something new...

Postby JimQwilleran » 05 Nov 2016, 19:58

I guess that binoculars give us the view :D. It's quite exciting you actually add a unit xD.

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Re: Something is hiding...something new...

Postby XAHTEP39 » 05 Nov 2016, 20:41

Or Pz.III ausf. M (50-mm L/60) or Pz. III ausf. N (75-mm L/24) - cannon is in bushes, but i think that it is ausf. N ;) with skirts, of course - the lastest modification 8-)


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Re: Something is hiding...something new...

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 05 Nov 2016, 21:17

Good to see a fresh unit!

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Re: Something is hiding...something new...

Postby Commissar » 06 Nov 2016, 11:05

would be easily penetrated by each 57mm allies shit... another useless stuff. ami. People will continue to use the simple already familiar Panzer 4 with a shortened gun.

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Re: Something is hiding...something new...

Postby JimQwilleran » 06 Nov 2016, 13:30

Commissar wrote:would be easily penetrated by each 57mm allies shit... another useless stuff. ami. People will continue to use the simple already familiar Panzer 4 with a shortened gun.


Ekhm, Panzer III versions J and up had around 70mm of armour... It's almost the same as Panzer IV H. So no, it will not be penetrated by each 57mm. While best short gun version of Panzer IV (currently F1) had 50 mm of armour. Check your facts.

Actually, depending on doc and faction placement, and also performance, I think we will witness spam of this new Panzer III xD. Exciting :D!

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Re: Something is hiding...something new...

Postby Tiger1996 » 06 Nov 2016, 14:00

Regardless whether if it would be a Pz3 N with skirts or a Pz3 L with skirts (Ausf M) i think both their armor is same, as it's never less than the Pz4 F1 armor like Nami has already stated.. which is quite decent enough for such an early available unit, not to mention it's not any expensive!
The N has a short barreled stubby 75mm howitzer HE gun.. while the M actually has a long barreled fast firing 50mm AT gun... Should be lethal to Shermans specifically in mid range.. it would be able to kill the Sherman in most likely just 3 or 4 rapid shots.. however, it should struggle penetrating at max range.

57mm AT guns should penetrate PanzerIII not always, but every now and then.. even though at the same time, the 57mm AT guns still shouldn't also have any kind of a serious struggle against those PzIII. Yet, not always penetrating them specifically when at max range... But their HP would be quite too low inf fact; 1 penetration and you are pretty much dead.

Zookas and captured Schrecks should never bounce off the Panzer 3, but RLs and PIATs should struggle penetrating the Pz3 just a little bit...
75mm Sherman should be almost as good as the 57mm AT guns against Pz3s, but the 75mm should be more likely able to one-shot any Panzer 3 most of the time whenever penetrated, since it deals higher damage... But slightly less penetration power than the 57mm AT guns.

I would say Panzer IIIs won't ever fit anywhere except in both Terror and Blitz docs.. they should be very cheap, available early by default without any doctrinal unlocks... And also produced so quickly :)

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Re: Something is hiding...something new...

Postby JimQwilleran » 06 Nov 2016, 14:11

Tiger1996 wrote:Regardless whether if it would be a Pz3 N with skirts or a Pz3 L with skirts (Ausf M) i think both their armor is same, as it's never less than the Pz4 F1 armor like Nami has already stated.. which is quite decent enough for such an early available unit, not to mention it's not any expensive!
The N has a short barreled stubby 75mm howitzer HE gun.. while the M actually has a long barreled fast firing 50mm AT gun... Should be lethal to Shermans specifically in mid range.. it would be able to kill the Sherman in most likely just 3 or 4 rapid shots.. however, it should struggle penetrating at max range.

57mm AT guns should penetrate PanzerIII not always, but every now and then.. even though at the same time, the 57mm AT guns still shouldn't also have any kind of a serious struggle against those PzIII. Yet, not always penetrating them specifically when at max range... But their HP would be quite too low inf fact; 1 penetration and you are pretty much dead.

Zookas and captured Schrecks should never bounce off the Panzer 3, but RLs and PIATs should struggle penetrating the Pz3 just a little bit...
75mm Sherman should be almost as good as the 57mm AT guns against Pz3s, but the 75mm should be more likely able to one-shot any Panzer 3 most of the time whenever penetrated, since it deals higher damage... But slightly less penetration power than the 57mm AT guns.

I would say Panzer IIIs won't ever fit anywhere except in both Terror and Blitz docs.. they should be very cheap, available early by default without any doctrinal unlocks... And also produced so quickly :)


Yea, that's more or less right. The 75mm gun actually is not a howitzer :P. Maybe Piat should not struggle, as it has around 90mm of penetration. And we all know how inaccurate it is... Not penetrating Panzer III, which would come very early, could be balance breaking in middle axis vs brits gameplay.

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Re: Something is hiding...something new...

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 06 Nov 2016, 15:11

Id rather see them in PE docs, they really lack some cost effective and deadly stuff ( like WH pumas, usa's quad cal and M4)

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Re: Something is hiding...something new...

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 06 Nov 2016, 15:59

Sukin-kot (SVT) wrote:Id rather see them in PE docs, they really lack some cost effective and deadly stuff ( like WH pumas, usa's quad cal and M4)


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Re: Something is hiding...something new...

Postby Commissar » 06 Nov 2016, 18:52

JimQwilleran wrote:
Commissar wrote:would be easily penetrated by each 57mm allies shit... another useless stuff. ami. People will continue to use the simple already familiar Panzer 4 with a shortened gun.


Ekhm, Panzer III versions J and up had around 70mm of armour... It's almost the same as Panzer IV H. So no, it will not be penetrated by each 57mm. While best short gun version of Panzer IV (currently F1) had 50 mm of armour. Check your facts.

Actually, depending on doc and faction placement, and also performance, I think we will witness spam of this new Panzer III xD. Exciting :D!


Pz.Kpfw.III Ausf.J never had around 70mm of armour, my man,you take it wrong. and i can say for sure - almost each 57mm AT guns can smash up this useless rotten box, aka Pz.Kpfw.III Ausf. H, J, J1, L, M, N.

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Re: Something is hiding...something new...

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 06 Nov 2016, 19:01

Commissar wrote:Pz.Kpfw.III Ausf.J never had around 70mm of armour, my man,you take it wrong. and i can say for sure - almost each 57mm AT guns can smash up this useless rotten box, aka Pz.Kpfw.III Ausf. H, J, J1, L, M, N.


Man, its your Third post here and you already being agressive regarding those "rotten box" chill out! you should be happy to get new models instead of whining like a child, be cool or you're out from here, respect the people who are working their ass off for free here, do you understand me?
You have been warned!
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Re: Something is hiding...something new...

Postby Commissar » 06 Nov 2016, 19:21

Panzerblitz1 wrote:
Commissar wrote:Pz.Kpfw.III Ausf.J never had around 70mm of armour, my man,you take it wrong. and i can say for sure - almost each 57mm AT guns can smash up this useless rotten box, aka Pz.Kpfw.III Ausf. H, J, J1, L, M, N.


Man, its your Third post here and you already being agressive regarding those "rotten box" chill out! you should be happy to get new models instead of whining like a child, be cool or you're out from here, respect the people who are working their ass off for free here, do you understand me?
You have been warned!


Dude, be cool if you do not get involved in someone else's dialogue, you understand me?) and I deeply respect devs for this outstanding mod. And the fact that I called this tank rotten box, not the basis of my contempt. This is my position on this tank not more. If you are personally developed this tank, so to be, forgive me, if not, then, please, I don't need of ur lecture about how I should be behave. My words are just my modest opinion.

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Re: Something is hiding...something new...

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 06 Nov 2016, 19:33

Commissar wrote:Dude, be cool if you do not get involved in someone else's dialogue, you understand me?) and I deeply respect devs for this outstanding mod. And the fact that I called this tank rotten box, not the basis of my contempt. This is my position on this tank not more. If you are personally developed this tank, so to be, forgive me, if not, then, please, I don't need of ur lecture about how I should be behave. My words are just my modest opinion.


No i don't understand you, If you deeply respect the Devs. just stop being agressive, if its "useless", or a "rotten boxes" or whatever you call this new unit, don't play it! the way you express yourself "in all modesty" isn't constructive, and extremely rude, you have the right to have your opinion in the respect of others people HARD work, and yes, you need to be lectured, and watch your behaviour here, because i WILL get involved.
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Re: Something is hiding...something new...

Postby Commissar » 06 Nov 2016, 20:00

Panzerblitz1 wrote:
Commissar wrote:Dude, be cool if you do not get involved in someone else's dialogue, you understand me?) and I deeply respect devs for this outstanding mod. And the fact that I called this tank rotten box, not the basis of my contempt. This is my position on this tank not more. If you are personally developed this tank, so to be, forgive me, if not, then, please, I don't need of ur lecture about how I should be behave. My words are just my modest opinion.


No i don't understand you, If you deeply respect the Devs. just stop being agressive, if its "useless", or a "rotten boxes" or whatever you call this new unit, don't play it! the way you express yourself "in all modesty" isn't constructive, and extremely rude, you have the right to have your opinion in the respect of others people HARD work, and yes, you need to be lectured, and watch your behaviour here, because i WILL get involved.


okay, dude. im alrdy almost realized, who do you imagine yourself. U want all have to praise and worship your MAJESTY because you work tearing ass for free even if ur work is bad or?) No dude it doesnt work like you imagine. if the work is lousy, then and the review would be lousy. And ,amo, - this tank is shit. And im gonna rly emphasize, if I think its crap tank - it doesnt mean that im agressive or i not restect the devs., it is just a OPINION and i don't find connection between opinion and respecting devs. Hope now u can understand me.
P. S. this is very bad, when a person can't withstand an opinion from other people.

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Re: Something is hiding...something new...

Postby Tiger1996 » 06 Nov 2016, 20:23

Andrusha, I need you here.. so just calm down please! It's all fine hopefully ^^
I already miss Mr.Nobody, even though he never participated on the forum even when he used to play BK in the past, obviously due to his bad English. However, I always relate you to him.. since you both used to play together almost all the time! :)

Anyway, I must say that what u said is definitely true for sure; there is not a single Panzer 3 version which ever had above 50mm armor actually or anywhere close to 70mm... Only later PanzerIII versions had maximum 50mm armor. Without the frontal armor plates, earlier versions had only 15mm armor.. or up to 30mm max armor thickness.
Exactly that's why I just partly agreed with what Nami said regarding this, as I completely neglected the part when he mentioned that Pz3s have around 70mm armor thickness, since it's not true.. while i still confirmed the other part of his text about the F1 armor, which apparently has 50mm armor, just like the upcoming PzIII versions, as they should act the same in terms of armor.. yet; Panzer3 should have less HP than the F1 of course.

Nonetheless, keeping in mind balance.. I think i already described perfectly enough in details how the Panzer3 should perform vs some different weapons... SO, regardless.. let's just not speak further about any realism facts up here!

At the end, I think that adding Panzer III would definitely compile new tactical aspects to the game... Which is quite interesting! And hey, never forget that they would be early available and very cheap too ;)

@Panzerblitz1;
I guess I could somewhat appreciate and also understand why Andrusha has went a little bit aggressive... As I believe he couldn't resist that one statement in the first place:-
JimQwilleran wrote:Check your facts.

Which was in my opinion.. well, not exactly rude... But at least irritating perhaps.

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Re: Something is hiding...something new...

Postby MarKr » 06 Nov 2016, 20:27

Commisar, there is this thing called "politeness". You can say "This tank is colosal shit because (reason 1,2,3)" but you can also say "I don't think this unit will be very useful because (reason 1,2,3)". Both express your oppinion and by both you say the same thing but the first sentence is rude and disrespectful while the second is polite. I would ask you to express yourself in a polite way. Nobody will give you warnings for any oppinion of yours as long as you express it politely.
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Re: Something is hiding...something new...

Postby Commissar » 06 Nov 2016, 20:33

MarKr wrote:Commisar, there is this thing called "politeness". You can say "This tank is colosal shit because (reason 1,2,3)" but you can also say "I don't think this unit will be very useful because (reason 1,2,3)". Both express your oppinion and by both you say the same thing but the first sentence is rude and disrespectful while the second is polite. I would ask you to express yourself in a polite way. Nobody will give you warnings for any oppinion of yours as long as you express it politely.

Ok. I got u

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Re: Something is hiding...something new...

Postby XAHTEP39 » 06 Nov 2016, 20:34

Tiger1996 wrote:...
Anyway, I must say that what u said is definitely true for sure; there is not a single Panzer 3 version which ever had above 50mm armor actually or anywhere close to 70mm... Only later PanzerIII versions had maximum 50mm armor. Without the frontal armor plates, earlier versions had only 15mm armor.. or up to 30mm max armor thickness.
...

All late produced Pz. IIIs (ausf. L, M, N) had 70-mm (50+20) front armor "from the factory";
In the main, early produced/converted Pz. IIIs (ausf. L, M, N) had 50-mm front armor but "at the front-line" it magnifies by 20-mm plates.
So, the most of late Pz.III had 70-mm (50+20) front armor, few are 50-mm.

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Re: Something is hiding...something new...

Postby Commissar » 06 Nov 2016, 20:39

XAHTEP39 wrote:
Tiger1996 wrote:...
Anyway, I must say that what u said is definitely true for sure; there is not a single Panzer 3 version which ever had above 50mm armor actually or anywhere close to 70mm... Only later PanzerIII versions had maximum 50mm armor. Without the frontal armor plates, earlier versions had only 15mm armor.. or up to 30mm max armor thickness.
...

All late produced Pz. IIIs (ausf. L, M, N) had 70-mm (50+20) front armor "from the factory";
In the main, early produced/converted Pz. IIIs (ausf. L, M, N) had 50-mm front armor but "at the front-line" it magnifies by 20-mm plates.
So, the most of late Pz.III had 70-mm (50+20) front armor, few are 50-mm.


Even if so, why such a powerful tank with such a cool armor will cost much less than PZ4?

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Re: Something is hiding...something new...

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 06 Nov 2016, 20:43

who said it will cost less than a Panzer IV?
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Re: Something is hiding...something new...

Postby JimQwilleran » 06 Nov 2016, 20:45

Of course that all late variants had 70mm of armour. What are you talking about?

https://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=Pz.Kpfw._III_Ausf._M#Armour

I also don't understand that attitude from Commisar at all. Isn't grehound shit car? Isn't Panzer IV D shit tank? They all are there, so what is the problem??

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Re: Something is hiding...something new...

Postby MarKr » 06 Nov 2016, 20:49

OK guys, this was supoese to be a secret for you till the release of beta but to calm the situation down I will tell you now.
It is PIII N - with stubby 75mm gun. It will be available only to SE doctrine and it replaces the current PIV E.
In fact it is only a new model but the unit behaves the same as PIV - same armor, same HP same gun stats, same abilities and thus also same price.
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