Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

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JimQwilleran
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby JimQwilleran » 06 Mar 2016, 23:33

Tiger1996 wrote:
JimQwilleran wrote: M5 Stuart should have at least 50% of pen chance vs all Panzer IV up to F2 at longest distance.

What? :?

At max range M5's gun "37 mm Gun T16" has 56mm of armor penetration.

All versions of Panzer IV from A to F2 has at most 50 mm of armor.

Need more explanation?

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 06 Mar 2016, 23:42

Regarding Aces I agree that they are pretty much pointless and almost nobody uses them anymore. I would prefer normal Tiger over Tiger ace any day due to mounted MG42, just as well as SP is definately better choice than Persh Ace, expecially since all american tanks comes with vet. 1 this Ace is nothing but just a normal pershing in fact.

Since you denied all my previous suggestions about Aces here is another one: Make them back to vet. 2-3 with vet.3 commander, but both available only a single time, this will make them really special and cool, this will also prevent exceeding the limit of tank commanders.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 06 Mar 2016, 23:51

@Jim;
The main armament of the M5 Stuart is the 37mm M6 gun according to Wikipedia which doesn't differ a lot from the M3 version.
Using regular AP rounds, it can penetrate only 35mm of steel at 500m range... 25mm of steel at 1000m distance (long range in bk around 60) both at zero degrees impact angle! No values are provided beyond this range.

Using APCR rounds, it could actually penetrate a maximum of 55mm at a distance of 500m (mid range in Bk, maybe around 30) but that's it!

Anyway the Stuart as far as I know will be buffed more specifically in HE rounds.. and maybe better penetration chances vs Puma as well as more accuracy etc; but I doubt that they would change anything on Pz IVs here.

@Sukin;
Limit Aces to only a single one time like SP???!!! Hmm.. not sure... This can be only good if there is no SP in the game.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby JimQwilleran » 07 Mar 2016, 00:01

Tiger1996 wrote:@Jim;
The main armament of the M5 Stuart is the 37mm M6 gun according to Wikipedia which doesn't differ a lot from the M3 version.

It does differ. While it's true that M3 gun had poor armor penetration, M6 could penetrate Panzer IV E easily (50mm at distance of 1000 meters)

Source: http://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=37_mm_Gun_M5

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Tiger1996
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 07 Mar 2016, 00:08

I am really unsure about these kind of shells mentioned there and which are regular or which are to be considered as APCR rounds here... But anyway.. even if it penetrates, this will deal very low damage; it will need like 7 hits or more to hopefully kill a Pz4! :P
And currently I have already seen the 37mm M3 AT guns penetrating Pz4s in Bk sometimes btw.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Wolf » 07 Mar 2016, 00:22

Changelog updated with stuff we forgot or was in the works
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby JimQwilleran » 07 Mar 2016, 00:23

Tiger1996 wrote: it will need like 7 hits or more to hopefully kill a Pz4! :P

Suure xD.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 07 Mar 2016, 00:36

Wolf wrote:Changelog updated with stuff we forgot or was in the works

Nice!

- Stuart HE ammo upgrade cost set to 45 ammo
- 2500VP infantry only mode transformed into 200 Pop Limit mode
- 4000VP infantry only mode transformed into 1250VP + 250 Pop Limit

Just make sure the 200popcap mode is like the 250 or the 150 ones.. not depending on how much territory u have secured unlike the 225popcap mode on the other hand for example.

- Fixed bug with 37mm AT gun Cannister shot
- P47 Bomb strike has now bigger AoE and targets in the blast zone should no longer take no damage
- Stuart gun's minimal damage increased to 40 (from 30)
- Stuart gun should now be more effective against light vehicles

Don't forget the 3 snipers available in Inf doc, and the Johnson LMG animation bug.

- V1 should only seldom deal no damage to tanks and only when they are not close to the centre of the AoE
- Def Doc off-map 280mm rockets should deal damage more reliably

- Wirblewind is no longer 100% penetrable by US 37mm AT gun (chance approximately same as with Axis 37mm AT)
- Wirblewind AP ammo should be a bit more effective against light vehicles

Great...

But I have got few questions for now... The so called 'BK fun mode' provides no restrictions to any units at all or??
Shrapnel anti personal mines, were they changed as well at any aspect? I think they are just fine as they currently are.

- Removed HP bonuses from Zeal

But they should still fight more fiercely as long as getting more loses, right?



Now go ahead and give ACEs one more Vet ^^ Plz Wolf... ;)

CQB and Sabotage.. they are a cheat like this current way :P

Rangers basic price?

Just 200 MP cheaper KT.

Demo Storm squad should be able to crawl by default.

76 BeuteSherman, Canadian 76 Sherman for RE doc... Panther A and G won't hopefully receive suppression ability??

MP40s upgrade bug for Volks.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby MarKr » 07 Mar 2016, 01:07

All this stuff has already been said. What is going to be changed is written on our to-do list. There is absolutely no need what-so-ever to keep repeating it all over and over again and spam this topic with it.
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 07 Mar 2016, 01:15

U r coming just to type this? While also neglecting my questions?? :o U will never change dude... :shock:

My posts contain no spamming content at all.

I asked u about Shrapnel mines whether if they got changed or not, I also asked about the so called 'Bk fun mod' whether if it has any restrictions upon any units or not... As I hinted u as well about many things which u apparently seem to have forgotten too.

Thx for all ur efforts in advance!

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby MarKr » 07 Mar 2016, 01:40

My posts contain no spamming content at all.
Hmmm let's see...
Just make sure the 200popcap mode is like the 250 or the 150 ones.. not depending on how much territory u have secured unlike the 225popcap mode on the other hand for example.
You already mentioned before in another topic that 200pop cap should be independent on captured sectors.
Don't forget the 3 snipers available in Inf doc, and the Johnson LMG animation bug.
This has been said several times in other topics.
CQB and Sabotage.. they are a cheat like this current way :P
Just 200 MP cheaper KT.
Demo Storm squad should be able to crawl by default.
(1st page - I thought Demo Storm squad will be able to crawl by default hopefully./CQB and Sabotage squads should require view to spawn in buildings just like Storms.
/What about the KT for god's sake?!)
Demo crawl, cheaper KT and CQB and Sabotage not poping up in FoW were all mentioned before by you and someone else several times.
Still looking forward to hear ur opinion soon at some point though.. regarding my suggestion for the Grens.. as well as considering ACEs
Also said before.
Stuart, isn't it going to be buffed btw?
Stuart buff announced long time ago.
The US 37mm AT gun crew... Don't forget about it guys.
Also reported by you numerous times.
Still looking forward to see the flank speed totally removed from Tigers for earlier tank shock ability in return.
Why I even mention this...
What about tank traps?? Nothing?
Also mentioned many times before on other topics.
Now go ahead and give ACEs one more Vet ^^ Plz Wolf... ;)
Already dissmised by Wolf.
Do I have to continue?
I'm just saying we keep track of things we want to change. If it is on the list, it will be changed. If it is not there and has been mentioned (several times) before, it won't be on the list and repeating the thing all over again (yes, that is considered spamming) won't move it to the list.

I asked u about Shrapnel mines whether if they got changed or not, I also asked about the so called 'Bk fun mod' whether if it has any restrictions upon any units or not...
Yes, you asked some questions. Can't you just wait for the release as anyone else? If everyone asked as many questions as you, we wouldn't do anything else but answering.
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Tiger1996
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 07 Mar 2016, 01:45

Holy shit... Everyone here has repeated his points over and over again.. u think I am the only one doing it???

Wolf can change his opinion just like anyone else, or why do u think we are discussing in the first place??!!

Weird to see how u r simply replying the questions of others; but feeling so much obligated to only reply mine.

pppppppfffffffffff PLZ not this crap once again X_X

Chill out.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Wake » 07 Mar 2016, 02:20

Here is my obligatory post about other suggestions. I've always felt that the easiest way to balance things in BK's late stage of development is to just change the prices of units. That's partially why I made the tech tree. So here I go:

- US Airborne Engineers Image
Right now they cost 320 MP. I suggest reducing their price for the same reasons that Luft-pioneers got their price reduced - and even more so because Luft pioneers have a unique role. They are the only ones that can build 88s in the luft doc. But in the airborne doc, these engineers don't even really have a special function. They are just normal engineers that get worse guns (M1 carbine instead of Garand) but cost 1.5 times as much because they can parachute. They also have to be built from the airborne field headquarters, which itself costs 150 MP and 15 fuel. The only thing that makes these guys better than normal starting engineers is that they can throw satchel charges. But I think they have default engineer health, which makes them terrible at any sort of combat. I suggest reducing the price to 280 MP.

- PE Panzergrens Image
A lot of people think that PE isn't powerful enough. Maybe dropping the price of these guys from 360 MP to 350 MP would help. Right now they cost the same as Rangers.

- CW Infantry Section Image
A long time ago, WH grenadiers used to cost 450 MP. Back then, the Infantry Section still cost 435 MP like they do now. But these 2 units were very similar - "basic" infantry that have a lot of health which makes them half-elite. Except with the recent price reduction of grenadiers, the Infantry Section is now more expensive than them. But Grenadiers are better - they have a LOT more health, better guns, less received suppression, and can get panzershrecks which makes them ultra versatile. The Infantry Section only has 2 brens to rely on, so they're still fucked if they see a scout car. What do you guys think? I would suggest a slight price drop to 410 MP to at least set them equal in price to Grenadiers.

- CW PIAT Squad Image
On the same idea of what it was like before, so a few patches ago, US bazooka teams cost 360 MP, just like the axis panzerjager squads, except that the US one was reduced to 330 MP because the bazooka was worse than the panzershreck. The PIAT has remained at 320 MP throughout this entire time. So let's extend the same line of thinking to the PIAT guys. In terms of AT weapons, it is Panzershreck > Bazooka > PIAT. The PIAT is the worst. Let's use a Puma or something for example. If one bazooka hits a Puma, it will usually be destroyed. And it's pretty easy to hit a Puma with a bazooka. But that PIAT? It can take up to 5 hits to destroy a Puma - IF those shots hit. The PIAT is ridiculously inaccurate. In real life, the British replaced it with the bazooka because it was so inaccurate. I won't keep writing, but a price reduction would result in this unit being used more often. Right now it is rare in comparison to the bazooka/panzershreck squads.

- SAS Image
Damn, these guys are in need of help. They are the most expensive infantry unit in the game at 650 MP and 47 to reinforce. But in terms of effectiveness, they really aren't that much better than commandos, who are much cheaper. Does anyone agree?

- M36 Jackson Image
I've said it before, but basically, my argument here is that both Jackson versions cost 700 MP and 110 fuel, and require 4 CP, a supply yard, and a 35 fuel upgrade before you can build them. Meanwhile, the British have two extremely similar tanks - the Firefly and the Achilles, which can be built after just 2 CP and don't require anything else. All four of these tanks are almost the same. The Jackson is a 90mm gun on a Sherman or Wolverine chasis, and the Firefly/Achilles are 17 pounder guns on a Sherman or Wolverine chasis. The two guns have comparable stats, and other than that the units practically identical. But for some reason, the Jacksons are nearly twice as expensive! The Firefly costs 550/80 and the Achilles is 430/65.

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I think this mine may have been overlooked in the mine re-work.

Other than that, there are a bunch of Wehrmacht halftracks that should probably have minor price reductions, and a bunch of the airborne support units like the MG and mortar have really high reinforce costs like 60 MP. Also, the US Ranger Infiltration Squad costs 45 to reinforce, the same as Luftwaffe. I'm not sure if that was intended but it's not really a big problem.

However, even if you ignored my entire post and everything I just wrote, there is one thing that MUST be brought to attention!:

Image

This stupid ability. It's quite often ignored by people but I looked into it just because I was curious, and I discovered something ridiculous. Using this ability from the Churchill gives you an Infantry Section with 1 Bren. That's it - that's all you get. They don't have veterancy, they aren't cheaper to reinforce than normal, and unlike a normal Infantry Section, they CANNOT upgrade to a second Bren AND they cost 500 MP instead of 435. Without a doubt, this thing right here is the biggest waste of resources in the game. So on top of the Churchill needing vet 3 to call this squad in, it's just a bad unit. Change this to become some sort of reward. Right now it's like a punishment. If you can get a vet 3 Churchill, great for you! How about we make the price 300 MP or something? Because they can't buy another Bren or get rifle grenades, they are worse than a normal Infantry Section.
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby MarKr » 07 Mar 2016, 02:28

I just said to Tiger not to repeat things that already been said and you do the same :D :D :D I mean at least the para engineers, Panzer Grens, SAS Tommies and Jacksons were mentioned in one of your posts, so a link would be sufficient :).
Anyway...
I think this mine may have been overlooked in the mine re-work.
...care to elaborate? Why do you think it was overlooked?
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Wake » 07 Mar 2016, 02:53

MarKr wrote:
I think this mine may have been overlooked in the mine re-work.
...care to elaborate? Why do you think it was overlooked?


Sorry, the patch only referred to Teller AT mines so I thought this one was accidentally skipped. If it was covered, then good.

I'm going to release a video showing the different mines soon too.
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby MarKr » 07 Mar 2016, 03:00

Yeah, by Teller mines I meant all purely anti-vehicle mines of all factions in the game.

What is the video going to show about mines?
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby sandman332 » 07 Mar 2016, 04:45

Very nice, however I haven't found this on the change log.

1) improved squads AI behaviour when ordered to attack. (Confirmed by Panzerblitz1)
-Topic reference; viewtopic.php?f=15&t=786

Just wondering if it was missed or what.

Thanks.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 07 Mar 2016, 05:07

Yup, I am still keeping this one in mind, as I am also wondering about this one actually:
9) Axis flak 20mm Quads are under-performing against HTs including the Wirbelwind btw. (Confirmed by MarKr as well)
-Topic reference; viewtopic.php?f=15&t=870

Together with few more things, however that I haven't forgot any point so far.
But anyway, they are still working on it... So.. we need to just wait! There will be also a beta version release as usual before the patch is officially out too ;)

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Wake » 07 Mar 2016, 05:34

MarKr wrote:
What is the video going to show about mines?


Here it is (click)
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 07 Mar 2016, 05:41

Oh yes, btw... I disagree cheaper CW inf section, they are often Vet4 and 5... Brits keep relying on them even against Storms and Luft inf.. yet they succeed!

I also disagree cheaper SAS, although that I have even suggested it myself before.. but later I have found out that they are completely immune to anything specifically after both the defensive and the offensive RAF doc unlocks.

I surely I disagree cheaper Jackson or Slugger, we already got cheaper Jumbo and Pershing! As well as cheaper SP in the past.


Nice video as I already said though, but there is nothing wrong with the Tiger Ace S-mine ability so far... And generally everything was just fine, but maybe while excepting the CW Lieutenant crazy bonuses.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 07 Mar 2016, 09:19

Well, without zeal HP boosts and with slower vet. ups grens will be okay finally, hope they won't be better cost effective than storms or luft anymore.

Regarding blitz, I agree that demolition storms should be able to crawl right from the start, blitz doesn't have any good arty and sometimes you can be in a real trouble when opponent plays extremely defensively, would be nice to have this squad for smashing mg nests and paks.

Another question: Are there any chances to fix the bug when storms, 101s, 82s and infiltration Rangers do not react on any commands after throwing a satchel or Granade bundle? Thats super annoying when you loose a very high veted squad just because they dont want to retreat.

As for SAS, there are really a lot of complains on them, the issue is that they perform just like commando costing way more. I suggest to give them satchels, so they will be useful as fortification destroyers.

All in all, this is the best patch since a long time, and if you will give something what can destroy tanks to AB so people will start to play it without afraid of being steamrolled by a single Panther/Tiger + somehow make TH more appealing than I will be absolutely happy.

EDIT: Maybe, give a special stubby Panzer IV version to TH, with skirts and mounted MG 42, so they will have a decent infantry killer for tankbusters support.

EDIT 2: Mark also fixed the Tulip rockets because they had very miserable stats, but I don't see it in the patch note.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 07 Mar 2016, 12:37

+1 to Sukin's last post.. except that thing with the AB doc :P

Not every Allied doc is supposed to be able to deal perfectly with Axis heavy tanks or it would be absolutely no fun playing with those tanks anymore... This can be the AB doc weak point.. although that I already believe they do still have really enough AT capabilities atm in my opinion; Hellcats, cheaper squads with Zookas and better airplanes now!

I agree that this will be the best patch so far, specifically since that it's also going to feature new maps as well... I am keenly waiting the beta release to test it very accurately.. if this patch goes well without any mistakes.. everything will be very fine, as it could be then even the last patch I ever demand for; won't be bothering to ask for any patches after that since it's apparently going to set everything at the correct line... At this point I will be more than just grateful.

SO again, I just wish they consider ACEs, slightly cheaper KT in MP price as well as few more crucial things and remaining bugs to be hopefully passed over...


I would also like to see more expensive Rangers, that's necessary as for now.. they can't cost cheaper than 101st squads anymore... So maybe a basic price increase to 390MP or 400 from just 360!

Only then.. we could be more than just satisfied... Really thankful I mean; Cheers!!!

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby XAHTEP39 » 07 Mar 2016, 13:25

Sukin-kot (SVT) wrote:...
Maybe, give a special stubby Panzer IV version to TH, with skirts and mounted MG 42, so they will have a decent infantry killer for tankbusters support.
...

It will be pretty, if Pz. III ausf. N (not the "old friend" Pz.IV ausf D/E, but the last models of Pz. III with skirts: ausf. M with 50-mm L/60 like a Puma gun, and ausf. N with 75-mm L/24 "stubby") come in sight in BK-mod; iirc, this panzer III is available in Africa-mod.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Wolf » 07 Mar 2016, 13:38

For broader testing - you can give it a try... I also added that squad ai, but I am not confident it will be good in the end..

http://files.bkmod.net/Blitzkrieg_4.9.5_Beta_Patch.exe
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 07 Mar 2016, 13:46

XAHTEP39 wrote:
Sukin-kot (SVT) wrote:...
Maybe, give a special stubby Panzer IV version to TH, with skirts and mounted MG 42, so they will have a decent infantry killer for tankbusters support.
...

It will be pretty, if Pz. III ausf. N (not the "old friend" Pz.IV ausf D/E, but the last models of Pz. III with skirts: ausf. M with 50-mm L/60 like a Puma gun, and ausf. N with 75-mm L/24 "stubby") come in sight in BK-mod; iirc, this panzer III is available in Africa-mod.

Yup, Pz3s are actually available in the historical Afrika addon for Bk.

Wolf wrote:For broader testing - you can give it a try... I also added that squad ai, but I am not confident it will be good in the end..

http://files.bkmod.net/Blitzkrieg_4.9.5_Beta_Patch.exe

Good to see an early beta release with this thing so far... Gonna try it out as soon as possible!


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