Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

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Tor
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Tor » 08 Mar 2016, 16:04

Geschützwagen and WH pak40 Halftrack in 4.9.3 can only die vs pershing, PE good.
Stop spam tigers and enemy stop spam pershing.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby MarKr » 08 Mar 2016, 16:09

Tor wrote:Where i can read about pershing armor buff?
Pershing gun should not bounce off of PIVs H/J i found only this.

Tiger is right - by unifying the perfomance of 75mmL/48 guns Pershings have now better chance to bounce off shells from these cannons.
75mmL/48 was unified on Hetzer, Jagdpanzer IV (obviously the L/48 version), Marder III, Geschützwagen, StuG III/IV, Panzer IV H/J/Beobachtungspanzer, 75mm PaK Halftracks (both PE and WM), 75mm PaK and also the Def doc's gunnest.

The penetration against Pershing at maximal range differed a lot from as low as (approximately) 14% for Hetzer/JPZIV to as much as 40% for Geschützwagen or PE 75mm AT Halftrack. Now all these units have approximately 20% chance to penetrate Pershings at max range. So in a sense yes, Pershing got armor buff but only against these weapons, anything stronger will still deal with them as it did before.

This can not be a small buff...
I would call it more of a bug fix. The differences between performance of the 75mm guns were soooo huge while those all are the same guns. On Allied side e.g. 76mm guns perform more or less same on every vehicle. Given how low chance 76mm guns have against Panthers, should Panthers be restricted to 2? It is the same principle. Not to mention that Pershing often misses it's target and even with it's 90mm gun have trouble facing Axis heavies - at least at max range so it needs to get closer and the closer it is the more vulnerable it is. I'd say it is fine.
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 08 Mar 2016, 16:26

Given how low chance 76mm guns have against Panthers, should Panthers be restricted to 2? It is the same principle.

U miss the point here, it's not the same principle...

Fixing the 75mm L/48 guns is definitely a good thing.. but here is what I exactly meant;
The Pershing now is cheaper than the Panther G, while costing almost as much as a Panther A... I had no problems at all with unlimited numbers for Pershings when they costed 160 fuel.. but now the price is only 140!
Given the fact that even according to reality just as a side note, they can't cost less than a Panther nor become earlier available than them.

So; again...
They used to be earlier available as they currently are and unlimited while costing more than any Panthers which was fine, however that now they also cost less... Here is the issue!


Btw, the Def doc 88mm pak 43 AT gun should be as strong as the Nashorn.. currently it's very weak.

Tor wrote:Stop spam tigers and enemy stop spam pershing.

Tigers are already limited to just 2 at a time.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby JimQwilleran » 08 Mar 2016, 17:06

Tiger1996 wrote:So; again...
They used to be earlier available as they currently are and unlimited while costing more than any Panthers which was fine, however that now they also cost less... Here is the issue!
There is no issue. Devs release new patch to buff less played-docs while nerfing a bit commonly played docs. And you say "It's fine you buffed armor but I think that you should also nerf it in this place". Where is the logic? Buff is a buff, otherwise there is no sense at all in changing anything.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 08 Mar 2016, 17:08

is Armor doc considered a rarely played one?? Buffing Pershings was actually intended in terms of armor, and not also for cheaper cost...

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Wake » 08 Mar 2016, 17:45

Tiger1996 wrote:The Pershing now is cheaper than the Panther G, while costing almost as much as a Panther A... I had no problems at all with unlimited numbers for Pershings when they costed 160 fuel.. but now the price is only 140!
Given the fact that even according to reality just as a side note, they can't cost less than a Panther nor become earlier available than them.
Tigers are already limited to just 2 at a time.


Panther G - 850/150
Panther A - 770/140
Panther D - 680/110
Pershing - 830/140 (previously 160)

I think part of the reason is that the Panther G and A have the top MG42, which makes them very good vs infantry. But the Pershing shares the same problem as the Panther D - all they have is crappy coaxial and hull MGs, which makes them bad vs infantry. So the Panther D and Pershing have very similar roles - heavy tank with a good gun that can kill other heavy tanks, but vulnerable to bazookas or panzershrecks. The Panther D costs significantly less than the other Panthers, so the Pershing being somewhere in the middle seems OK. What do you think?

Personally I would be fine with a 2 Pershing limit (it's kind of a stupid idea to make more than 2 at the same time anyway). By all accounts, the Pershing is just a Jackson with more health and armor. They have the same 90mm gun, and those coaxial MGs aren't going to do anything vs infantry. A Jackson costs 700/110.

And to answer your question about the Pershing coming later than the Panther - that could actually happen. Axis need a total of 305 fuel in order to build the first Panther, and Allies need only 275 fuel to build the first Pershing (excluding the price of the tank itself). The Pershing needs 5 CP to unlock, whereas Blitz doc needs 6 CP to unlock the panther and Terror needs 7 (Luft needs 5 but they get the shitty Panther D). So if a U.S player were to not spend his fuel on anything else other than what is needed to make a Pershing, then they could build one faster than an axis player doing the same.
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Tor » 08 Mar 2016, 18:54

Tiger1996 wrote:
Given how low chance 76mm guns have against Panthers, should Panthers be restricted to 2? It is the same principle.

Tor wrote:Stop spam tigers and enemy stop spam pershing.

Tigers are already limited to just 2 at a time.

You can spam tiger and lose they and have 0 or 1 tiger.
Pershing can only kill tanks, this 35% tiger late job, try play with terror tiger, pz-4j most times better than tiger early.
Pershing cost ok, tiger terror have bad cost.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 08 Mar 2016, 19:11

I agree that pershing limit makes no sense, this unit is useless without massive anti-inf support.

Regarding TH, after patch it will remain kinda the only outsider doctrine, for real, can you give them the special stubby pz4 version with skirts and MG-42? This doc will be extremely usefull against infaтtry blobbers from AB, RAF and Inf than, providing somethig as effective as HE sherman with sandbags, not just tank busting role which can be filled by every other axis doc.

Regarding other docs which used to be outsiders Im pretty satisfied, AB finally can destroy tanks with bomb runs, I withdraw ideas about recoiless\rocket run\camo for 82s since in beta AB works pretty well, still requires a lot of skill though since you need an incredible micro managment. RE and Luft are also good.

The last thing remained is only TH, and maybe a little additional feature for Def doc in order to make it slightly more popular.
Last edited by Sukin-kot (SVT) on 08 Mar 2016, 19:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 08 Mar 2016, 19:37

Tor wrote:Pershing cost ok, tiger terror have bad cost.

I basically agree that Terror Tiger has to cost less... But keep in mind that Tigers before 486 already used to cost not more than 155 fuel, now this Tiger costs 165 fuel; comparing it with the Pershing.. I wonder then if we should make it cost 140 fuel as well??!!
Wake wrote:Personally I would be fine with a 2 Pershing limit (it's kind of a stupid idea to make more than 2 at the same time anyway)

Wake wrote:And to answer your question about the Pershing coming later than the Panther - that could actually happen. Axis need a total of 305 fuel in order to build the first Panther, and Allies need only 275 fuel to build the first Pershing (excluding the price of the tank itself). The Pershing needs 5 CP to unlock, whereas Blitz doc needs 6 CP to unlock the panther and Terror needs 7 (Luft needs 5 but they get the shitty Panther D). So if a U.S player were to not spend his fuel on anything else other than what is needed to make a Pershing, then they could build one faster than an axis player doing the same.

Exactly, that's what I am actually saying...
Wake wrote:What do you think?

Well, if we won't limit Pershings.. then both the Terror Tiger as well as the KT must get a bit cheaper as I previously mentioned before.
Not to mention btw that the KT is also a completely pointless unit now specifically against AB doc with these new planes. Moreover in fact Terror doc lacks any good AA too!
Regarding TH, after patch it will remain kinda the only outsider doctrine, for real, can you give them the special stubby pz4 version with skirts and MG-42? This doc will be extremely usefull against infatry blobbers from AB, RAF and Inf than, not just tank busting role which can be filled by every other axis doc.

+1

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Tor » 08 Mar 2016, 20:02

Fuel,fuel, fuel nothing, Manpower main resource in this game, fuel need only if you want spam.
140-160 I don't see the difference

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MarKr
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby MarKr » 08 Mar 2016, 20:05

Well, technically speaking Armor doc could field Pershing earlier than Axis their heavies but US player would need to go straight for Pershing, that means build only few or none vehicles and in the end the player would have one Pershing in the field without any support to speak of and Axis player can blow it up with one AT squad. I don't think that an argument "Pershing can be fielded sooner than Panther" is very strong because it is very theoretical and also situational. Moreover Armor doc is meant to build masses of Shermans, even with all the cheaper prices for the cost of one Pershing you cand build...how many...2-3 76mm Shermans? I'd say that from pretty much any perspective 3 Shermans are better than one Pershing. Pershings have been discussed before and people agreed, that one on one, Pershing stands little chance against Axis heavies so it works best as a complement of Sherman attack force. In such case you simply don't have resources to spamm Pershings.

I'd say it is fine.
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Wake » 08 Mar 2016, 21:16

What's going to be done about the 500 MP infantry section from vet 3 Churchills? I want to see other people's suggestions. It's the only ability of its kind in the whole game, and I guess the original intent was to be some sort of reward for getting a vet 3 tank, or giving it good infantry support. Churchills are the ultimate infantry support tank anyway, which I think gets overlooked quite often. They can heal nearby infantry and reinforce them. This probably doesn't happen too often in game though, because RE doc is usually starved of manpower due to the royal engineers costing so much, and the Churchill call ins are all manpower expensive. Usually the idea is "I can't support my Churchills with infantry, because I am saving for an AVRE or Croc".
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby XAHTEP39 » 08 Mar 2016, 21:41

- Mines in general - anti-infantry cost set to 15Munition; Multipurpose cost set to 30 (CW Hawkins 20); Teller mines cost set to 45munition

Yes, good standartization.

But also S-mine 35 (yes, very deadly AP-mine) is available by Sabotage squad (PE-SE, 350MP) and cost of S-Mine 35 by Sabotage squad is... 35 ammo?
This is "forgotten cost" or not?

About mobile mine "Goliath"; Mobile mine "Goliath" has different costs - 50MP+50Ammo by Bunkers and 100Ammo(!!!) by "PE ammunition HT", and iirc this requires 3 "popcap" in one case (don`t remember what case). Is it normal cost situation with "Goliath" ?

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 08 Mar 2016, 22:00

XAHTEP39 wrote:But also S-mine 35 (yes, very deadly AP-mine) is available by Sabotage squad (PE-SE, 350MP) and cost of S-Mine 35 by Sabotage squad is... 35 ammo?
This is "forgotten cost" or not?

If u r talking about Shrapnel mines, now they cost 15 ammo... I checked it!

Wake wrote:What's going to be done about the 500 MP infantry section from vet 3 Churchills? I want to see other people's suggestions.

I think it's just fine :P

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby XAHTEP39 » 08 Mar 2016, 22:13

Tiger1996 wrote:
XAHTEP39 wrote:But also S-mine 35 (yes, very deadly AP-mine) is available by Sabotage squad (PE-SE, 350MP) and cost of S-Mine 35 by Sabotage squad is... 35 ammo?
This is "forgotten cost" or not?

If u r talking about Shrapnel mines, now they cost 15 ammo... I checked it!

Yes, ShrapnelMine (S.Mine 35) - by WH Pioneer (only in DefDoc) and Demolition Storms (only BKDoc) is 15 ammo, but by PE Sabotage squad is 35 ammo, I cheched it in PvE 30 minutes ago :)

EDIT:
And I don`t know bug or feature, but SE Sabotage squad have vise versa range of vision in stealth-mode (crawl): if they move in crawl - much vision range, if they don`t move in crawl - less vision range :?

EDIT:
And about cost of Luftlandpioneers... New cost of paratrooped Luftlandpioneers is 360MP, ok; but Luftlandpioneers are available in "field barracks" (it is remodelled empty building in friendly sector) and cost in "field barracks" is old = 420MP...
Last edited by XAHTEP39 on 08 Mar 2016, 22:48, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby MarKr » 08 Mar 2016, 22:25

I guees I forgot those... Mine prices should be same for every unit. Thanks for report.
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby XAHTEP39 » 08 Mar 2016, 22:42

- Heavy Weapon Supply ability moved to Fallshirmjäger UI (due to one more available airstrike something had to be moved from the panel)

Yes, interesting decision, but now "Heavy Weapon Supply ability" (Heavy MG-42 + 81-mm GrW.34) is available ONLY by Reg5 Fallshirmjäger, so if you have only Gebirgs or/and Luftlandepioneers on the battlefield and open "Heavy Weapon Supply ability" in CT, you can`t to drop "Heavy Weapon Supply" - you need ONLY Reg5.
Is it bug or feature? :cry:

I remind, that now, in 4.9.3, "Heavy Weapon Supply ability" is available to drop by all Luft-paratrooped units (Luftlandpioneers,Reg5, Gebirgs). :!:

P.S. And I edit my post above. ;)

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 08 Mar 2016, 22:57

lol, few moments ago I sent MarKr a PM with all the recently reported bugs or discovered mistakes as a collection so that hopefully he gets them all in a single one list which could probably make it easier for him with such a small kind of help.. but now u come up with more new ones! :D

Good job I would say, u r very precise :)

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 09 Mar 2016, 06:19

Engeniers now repair schwims and jeeps much slower but it's not mentioned in the patch note as well.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby MarKr » 09 Mar 2016, 11:37

Btw, the Def doc 88mm pak 43 AT gun should be as strong as the Nashorn.. currently it's very weak.

It is interresting that 88mm PaK43 is "weak" when it's stat are the same as those of Nashorn...actually better because the PaK has better range.
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 09 Mar 2016, 12:25

Weird :? Because I am pretty sure I have seen it before bouncing off Comets 3 times in a row!!! Also the same thing with Jumbo and SP... :!:

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Panzer-Lehr-Division » 09 Mar 2016, 16:21

Cool cool but seems like the cqc and sabotage can still be spammed out of every house? I expected that they can only on sight pop out[*]
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 09 Mar 2016, 17:00

Will the squad AI be fixed? Currently soldiers with handled AT are running arround like dumbasses instead of shooting.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby MarKr » 09 Mar 2016, 18:20

Cool cool but seems like the cqc and sabotage can still be spammed out of every house? I expected that they can only on sight pop out[*]
It has been like this since...ever and suddenly now it is a problem? Just because Storms cannot pop up from buildings in FoW doesn't mean that these squads shouldn't be able to do so. Not to mention that using this abilitity "blind" can mean that you simply spawn them reight next to nevhicle that will shred them to pieces.
I am against this.

Will the squad AI be fixed? Currently soldiers with handled AT are running arround like dumbasses instead of shooting.
Yep, we got the right files now.
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 09 Mar 2016, 18:40

MarKr wrote:It has been like this since...ever and suddenly now it is a problem? Just because Storms cannot pop up from buildings in FoW doesn't mean that these squads shouldn't be able to do so. Not to mention that using this abilitity "blind" can mean that you simply spawn them reight next to nevhicle that will shred them to pieces.
I am against this.

And why even allowing them to spawn through the fog of war when it's sometimes a 'risk' like u say'??? Map such as Autry for example, there are no any base AA turrets around.. specifically at position 3... Where there are also some buildings located next to the HQ; as it has now become a common tactic to spawn there even without view while killing all the retreated units with 1 squad!!! I saw a 5% HP Panther that drove to the base for repairing when suddenly a squad came up from nowhere hitting it with a Zooka, why shouldn't the player need view first in order to spawn??!! I am completely with restricting it becoming just like the Storms.

It's not too difficult to bring a scout or a recon plane so far...


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