Blitzkrieg Mod Forum

Hey,

next patch will feature a lot of balance changing stuff.
We changed veterancy levels a bit, so certain units like rangers, certain stormtroopers, certain commandos, snipers and some others will require a bit more XP to level up, some less.
All changes together should even the game a bit more, especially within doctrines of the same faction. Most nerfs were to Inf and Terror doctrines, which were played the most. Both AB and Luft got some buffs, we will see how it plays out. I would like to remember here, that not every doctrine should deal with everything and especially not with one unit. While there was a certain shift to that in the past, I wouldn't like to continue this trend. Also remember that playing games with or against multiple of the same doctine is not that of an example how to balance. If you will play against 4 arty doctrines you can ... surprisingly... expect shitload of arty. And we will not change how arty doctrines work just because of that. Same applies to other doctrines, 4x RAF means that there will be planes all over the place. Also that something takes 4CP in the tree in one doctrine doesnt mean that there cant be the same unit in other doctine for 8CP.

Back to the patch .. It also features new mode called currently BK Fun Mode, in which all resource income is doubled, popcap static 350 - this mode will NOT be balanced and should not be played in serious games.
There will be some more small changes and some bug fixes in final release.

Majority of changes were done by MarKr, so props to him.

ALL:
- Corrected some stats of Axis cannons against Churchills
- Binoculars should be unable to use from vehicles
- Snipers have nerfs to accuracy and cooldown when shooting from vehicles
- HE Shot ability for most tanks should not fail so miserably anymore
- Mines in general - anti-infantry cost set to 15Munition; Multipurpose cost set to 30 (CW Hawkins 20); Teller mines cost set to 45munition
- Made some tweaks to specialized Anti-tank (Teller) mines so it should nolonger happen that they go off without doing any damage
- Mines are now layed one by one and via "shift" key and order qeue you can set where you want to plant them
- Some new textures on emplacements and tank tracks (Thanks JustForFun1)
- Costs of HE mode upgrade increased to 90 Ammo (Except for Ostwind and Wirblewind)
- Costs of AP/HE mod switch reduced to 0 ammo; cooldown of the switch increased to 90 seconds (Except for Ostwind and Wirblewind)
- Costs of HE mode upgrade for Ostwind set to 75 ammo for Wirblewind to 50 ammo
- Costs of AP/HE mod switch for Ostwind and Wirblewind reduced to 0 ammo; cooldown of the switch increased to 30 seconds
- AT gun Halftracks have unified range of 60 but in camo/static mode gain +5 range
- Axis 75mm L/48 guns are now more standardized (damage, penetration chances)
- PE Heschel and US AB Air Patrol will not show the symbol on the ground to your opponents anymore
- Added BK Fun mode
- Changed some units veterancy level requirements to more match their base performance
- Emplaced 88s have should have correct range
- Stuart HE ammo upgrade cost set to 45 ammo
- 2500VP infantry only mode transformed into 200 Pop Limit mode
- 4000VP infantry only mode transformed into 1250VP + 250 Pop Limit
- Fixed various PIVs HE shot ability in order not to miss so often
- Removed hotkey from "Defensive Barrage" ability
- Direct Fire ability should now be available to all 88s (emplaced + naked)
- 200 pop cap mode should work properly
- Reversed changes in hand-held AT guns
- Flak 88s in HE mode should target infantry before vehicles now

US:
- Jacksons no longer auto-taget one specific infantry type
- Increased suppression values for US Straffing run
- Straffing run after AP ammo upgrade should now correctly deal damage to lightly armored targets that used to be immune (this - specificaly Hummels, Nashorns, Marder III and Geschützwagen)
- 60mm Mortar squad build time decreased to 30 seconds (from 56)
- 60mm Mortar setup/pack up time decreased to 1 second (from 2.4)
- M16 HT has now minimal attack range of 5
- M16 HT cost 330MP 35F (300MP 30F after reduction)
- Recoilless Rifles should no longer do damage when they bounce off
- Recoilless Rifles have increased minimal damage and do more damage against Light vehicles
- Recoilless Rifles have increased accuracy at close range to prevent "miss from 4 meters" shots
- In command tree Jumbo and Calliope positions are now swapped
- Callioppe cost dropped to 700MP
- Jumbo cost dropped to 750MP
- 107mm Mortar Pit has now longer duration between shots
- 107mm Mortar Pit price increased to 450MP 45F (from 425MP 40F)
- Added an upgrade for Airborne doctrine to WSC that loweres weapon upgrade costs for 101st (100MP 80Ammo)
- Pershing gun should not bounce off of PIVs H/J
- Pershing fuel cost reduced by 20
- 2nd Tank depot upgrade cost reduced by 20Fuel
- AB Mortar Paradrop Command Tree unlock no longer requires the HMG Paradrop unlock first
- After AP upgrade of Straffing run the "Defensive Air attack" from AB HQ should send planes with AP bullets too
- .30 MG nest now has Suppression ability and AP burst ability
- Fixed bug with Calliope Jeep barrage
- RL Jeep is more accurate now but the longer the distance to target the longer it aims
- Lowered Airborne Ranger observation squad cost to 150 MP
- Lowered 101st Airborne Ranger Support cost to 385 MP
- Lowered 82nd Airborne Ranger Support cost to 475 MP
- Lowered 101st Airborne HQ Squad cost to 680 MP
- Increased Rifleman squad cost after decrease by command tree unlock by 5MP
- Increased Ranger squad cost after decrease by command tree unlock by 20MP
- Increased Combat Engineers cost after decrease by command tree unlock by 17MP
- Infantry doc off map arty shot cost increased from 150 munni to 165
- Infantry doc thompson upgrade price after weapon mass production increased by 5 Munnition
- Fixed bug with 37mm AT gun Cannister shot
- P47 Bomb strike has now bigger AoE and targets in the blast zone should no longer take no damage
- Stuart gun's minimal damage increased to 40 (from 30)
- Stuart gun should now be more effective against light vehicles
- 101st capture points faster
- Jeep should take more damage now
- CQB Bazooka shot bug should be fixed now
- M3 T48 range returned back to 75; in camo it now loses some range but gains slight accuracy buff
- New HE mode applied to Jumbo 75mm too
- All Quad .50cals and Dual .50cal on M15A1 should no longer be over-effective against PE planes
- Increased Fighter-Bomber patrol cost to 275 munni
- Removed sniper and captain from Rangers truck

CW:
- Tommies can Retreat from Hold Ground
- M10 Achilles should nolonger auto-target stuff in camo
- Added a delay for tanks after deactivating the Hulldown position during which they cannot move (10 seconds)
- Chuchill Crocodile "Treadbreaker" (targeted flamethrower attack) removed
- 2inch Mortar squad build time decreased to 30 seconds (from 102)
- 2inch Mortar setup/pack up time decreased to 1 second (from 2.4)
- 4.2inch Mortar setup/pack up time increased to 5 seconds (from 2.4)
- VT ability should have shared cooldown player-wide as intended few patches ago
- Comet should no longer pass through bushes
- Churchill crocodile should give a bit more XP when destroyed
- Dingo has two new upgrades 1) allows it to cap points 2)gives passive camo in cover. You cannot have both upgrades at the same time on one Dingo
- Recce is no longer a reward unit - is always available
- Dingo is now reward unit for Bren Carrier
- Wasp is no longer a reward unit - is always available
- RE Repair Bren moved to the second truck
- M4 Sherman V tank MP cost lowered to 350MP
- RE Sapper cost lowered to 390MP (from 450MP)
- RE Sapper glider cost lowered to 500MP (from 560MP)
- RE Canadian Sherman tanks call-in price dropped to 820MP (from 1000MP)
- 95mm Churchill price lowered to 400MP 50F (from 450MP 60F)
- Tulip Rockets should perform better - less chance to cause no damage; better scaled damage from center of AoE to edge
- Dingo should not crush bushes anymore
- Dingo should no longer survive hits from 37mm AT guns
- Removed bounce off damage from Achilles
- SAS Jeep and reward Tetrarch should be visible on minimap now
- Cromwell should now have fixed accuracy values against most PE infantry (thanks to Warhawks for finding the bug)
- XP reward for destroying Churchill Crocodile increased to 25XP
- Churchill Tommy squad call-in should now have propper weapon loadout

WH:
- Accurate Long Shot ability (Tigers/KTs) should work better now (should work as before but some delay before the shot should be present)
- Geschützwagen, Marder III and Halftrack with PaK40 are no longer harder to hit while in Static position, they are now a bit easier to hit while in static mode
- BK doc Ace call-in does not give you Stormtrooper squad anymore, thus becomming 200MP cheaper
- HE grenades of Def doc no longer need to be thrown from cover; cost +5 Ammo
- Puma has fixed HE shots now (thanks to Warhawks for finding the bug)
- Grenadiers now cost 410 MP
- Terror grenadiers can no longer buy additional MP44 after upgrade which gives them 3 for free (those who upgraded it before will keep it)
- Changed incendiery grenade cost to 25 Munnition
- Increased Panther G cost from 850 MP 150 Fuel to 890 MP 155 Fuel and slightly lowered its sight with scope upgrade
- Lowered cost of emplaced 88 gun by 30 MP + 5 Fuel
- V1 should only seldom deal no damage to tanks and only when they are not close to the centre of the AoE
- Def Doc off-map 280mm rockets should deal damage more reliably
- Removed HP bonuses from Zeal
- Schwimmwagen should take more damage now
- Sdkfz 234/3 (stubby 75mm) should now after activation of HE ability fire actual HE rounds
- 37mm PaK should one-shot Dingo now
- Corrected StuPa armor values with Skirts upgrade
- Fixed missing icons for Defensive artillery (command panel)
- Terror doctrine's Wlaking Stuka now requires a Command Tree unlock
- Tiger's Acurate Long Range Shot should now have a small dealy before the shot is fired, as intended

PE:
- Luftwaffe FW190 Bombing Airstrike is now performed by Ju-87 (same loadout as previous FW190)
- Luftwaffe Stuka Bombing Airstrike reworked, now armed with 2x MG (straffing run) and 2x 37mm anti-tank cannon
- Reward Stuka Airstrike removed, Airstrike unlock now makes both above mentioned airstrikes available however they both share cooldown (use one, both go on cooldown)
- Heavy Weapon Supply ability moved to Fallshirmjäger UI (due to one more available airstrike something had to be moved from the panel)
- Henschels should no longer get the "Out of Control" status
- Jagdpanther's Veteran Shot ability range increased to 90 (from 65)
- Panzer IV F2 cost lowered to match the same vehicle in WH faction (460MP 50F)
- SE Nashorn cost changed to match the cost of TH version (560MP 75F)
- Jagdpanther should no longer auto-target stuff when in camo
- Panzer IV J had "skirts" armor type from the start even without the skirt upgrade; this should be fixed now
- Beutepanzers (76mm and Firefly) should nolonger overperform against Churchills
- Reg5 soldiers now have a different "armor type" which makes them harder to hit while moving
- Reg5 receive after Vet unlock in CT defensive bonuses
- Luftwaffe Pioneers cost decreased by 60MP
- Hotchkiss rockets should perform a bit better now
- Sturmpioneers nolonger require the "upgrade building"; their MP40 upgrade can only be bought in own territory
- After upgrading either Panzerjäger Kommand OR Panzer Support Kommand the cost of Scout Car will drop by 25MP and the cost of its "secure territory" upgrade will also drop by 25MP
- Assault grenadiers cost lowered to 415 MP
- Lowered cost of emplaced 88 gun by 30 MP + 5 Fuel
- Wirblewind is no longer 100% penetrable by US 37mm AT gun (chance approximately same as with Axis 37mm AT)
- Wirblewind AP ammo should be a bit more effective against light vehicles
- PE Schwimmwagen mine drop cost set to standard Teller mine prize (45ammo)
- PE Schwimmwagen Mine Drop ability is now correctly unlocked with "Teller Mines" insteadof previous "Tanks Awareness"
- Luftpios in FHQ have their cost also reduced to 360MP
- Sabotage squad infantry mines cost set to 15 ammo
- Jagdpanther's Veteran Shot ability should not delay so much before the shot anymore
- Tank Hunter doctrine has PIV F1 instead of PIV D
- Fixed missing icons for Defensive artillery (buildings)
- Luftwaffe doctrine Air recon is now performed by new BF109 plane (thanks to BurtonDrummerNY for model and Justforfun1 for skin)
- Hotchkiss should now be more vulnerable to main gun of Greyhounds, Stuarts, Tetrarchs and Daimlers (2pounder)
- Damage output and penetration chances of Hotchkiss gun against certain Allied tanks reworked
- Jagdpanther's Veteran Shot ability should not miss anymore
- Sabotage squad should now have correct sight when using stealth mode
- 20mm flak has lowered effectivity against planes
- Mortar Halftrack now has the ability to shoot Smoke rounds

Generally not bad...

But I thought the 200popcap mode got added! Or?

- Some new textures on emplacements and tank tracks (Thanks JustForFun1)

Horray JFF1!

- Snipers have nerfs to accuracy and cooldown when shooting from vehicles

Good.

- Lowered 101st Airborne HQ Squad cost to 680 MP

The PE SS squad costs 950MP on the other hand... Being unequipped with anything by default too.. and now u get just for 680MP an officer unit that is armed to teeth by default.

I thought Demo Storm squad will be able to crawl by default hopefully.

- Increased Rifleman squad cost after decrease by command tree unlock by 5MP
- Increased Ranger squad cost after decrease by command tree unlock by 20MP
- Increased Combat Engineers cost after decrease by command tree unlock by 17MP
- Infantry doc off map arty shot cost increased from 150 munni to 165
- Infantry doc thompson upgrade price after weapon mass production increased by 5 Munnition

Very minor nerf, not to be even considered at any possible aspect.

Hmm, but thanks for increasing the price of the 105mm off map arty barrage strike though!

- Dingo has two new upgrades 1) allows it to cap points 2)gives passive camo in cover. You cannot have both upgrades at the same time on one Dingo
- Recce is no longer a reward unit - is always available
- Dingo is now reward unit for Bren Carrier
- Wasp is no longer a reward unit - is always available

Finally, thanks.

RE Canadian Sherman tanks call-in price dropped to 820MP (from 1000MP)

They are missing the suppression ability, 76 BeuteSherman too as well as both Panthers; A and G.

- Accurate Long Shot ability (Tigers/KTs) should work better now (should work as before but some delay before the shot should be present)

Thx again.
Still looking forward to see the flank speed totally removed from Tigers for earlier tank shock ability in return.

- Grenadiers now cost 410 MP
- Terror grenadiers can no longer buy additional MP44 after upgrade which gives them 3 for free (those who upgraded it before will keep it)

Not good.

-Lowered cost of emplaced 88 gun by 30 MP + 5 Fuel

Well, thanks...

CQB and Sabotage squads should require view to spawn in buildings just like Storms.

Pz4 E should have top turret mounted MG gunner...

- BK doc Ace call-in does not give you Stormtrooper squad anymore, thus becomming 200MP cheaper

ACEs Vet 2 plz.

- M16 HT has now minimal attack range of 5
- M16 HT cost 330MP 35F (300MP 30F after reduction)
- Recoilless Rifles should no longer do damage when they bounce off
- Recoilless Rifles have increased minimal damage and do more damage against Light vehicles
- Recoilless Rifles have increased accuracy at close range to prevent "miss from 4 meters" shots
- In command tree Jumbo and Calliope positions are now swapped
- Callioppe cost dropped to 700MP
- Jumbo cost dropped to 750MP
- 107mm Mortar Pit has now longer duration between shots
- 107mm Mortar Pit price increased to 450MP 45F (from 425MP 40F)

Very good.

- Churchill crocodile should give a bit more XP when destroyed

Great.

- Chuchill Crocodile "Treadbreaker" (targeted flamethrower attack) removed

Grateful...

- Added BK Fun mode

Could be interesting... Specifically if it does have no limits or any restrictions for any units!

- Jagdpanther's Veteran Shot ability range increased to 90 (from 65)
- Panzer IV F2 cost lowered to match the same vehicle in WH faction (460MP 50F)
- SE Nashorn cost changed to match the cost of TH version (560MP 75F)

Nice!

- Luftwaffe Pioneers cost decreased by 60MP

Not enough.

- Hotchkiss rockets should perform a bit better now

- Luftwaffe FW190 Bombing Airstrike is now performed by Ju-87 (same loadout as previous FW190)
- Luftwaffe Stuka Bombing Airstrike reworked, now armed with 2x MG (straffing run) and 2x 37mm anti-tank cannon

Cheers.

Keep up the good work!

Wolf wrote:Back to the patch .. It also features new mode called currently BK Fun Mode, in which all resource income is doubled, popcap static 350 - this mode will NOT be balanced and should not be played in serious games.

Yay.

Wolf wrote:Majority of changes were done by MarKr, so props to him.

Yay MarKr!

Wolf wrote:- Costs of AP/HE mod switch reduced to 0 ammo; cooldown of the switch increased to 90 seconds (Except for Ostwind and Wirblewind)

This is incredibly long time, isn't it? But, ok gonna see...

Wolf wrote:- AT gun Halftracks have unified range of 60 but in camo/static mode gain +5 range

To be honest it's a fucking shame. US 57mm ht was best weapon to kill camping PE with mortar HT...

Wolf wrote:- Straffing run after AP ammo upgrade should now correctly deal damage to lightly armored targets that used to be immune (this - specificaly Hummels, Nashorns, Marder III and Geschützwagen)

Very good.

Wolf wrote:- Infantry doc off map arty shot cost increased from 150 munni to 165

Why lol?

Wolf wrote:- Terror grenadiers can no longer buy additional MP44 after upgrade which gives them 3 for free (those who upgraded it before will keep it)

This change doesn't make any sense. No one bought additional mp44 when he has some for free...

- Corrected some stats of Axis cannons against Churchills
- Axis 75mm L/48 guns are now more standardized (damage, penetration chances)

Nice to read a little step behind.

- Snipers have nerfs to accuracy and cooldown when shooting from vehicles

As usual: If it doesn't like to bug-abusers ..... then it's good.

OK

JimQwilleran wrote:Why lol?

It's the most frequently used arty strike of the game...

Btw, looking forward to see cheaper Firestorm barrage too! From 200 ammo to probably 175.

JimQwilleran wrote:This change doesn't make any sense. No one bought additional mp44 when he has some for free...

Agreed.


And the V1 rocket, will it be hopefully fixed?

- Pershing fuel cost reduced by 20

What about the KT for god's sake?!

- Mines in general - anti-infantry cost set to 15Munition; Multipurpose cost set to 30 (CW Hawkins 20); Teller mines cost set to 45munition
- Made some tweaks to specialized Anti-tank (Teller) mines so it should nolonger happen that they go off without doing any damage
- Mines are now layed one by one and via "shift" key and order qeue you can set where you want to plant them

Great job MarKr.

What about tank traps?? Nothing? They often lead to camping games.

Guys, also.. don't forget about the Volks MP40 upgrade bug.

There is like no reason for aces to have any vet at all, so why should I give aces vet2, when you have different unit than the normal? If it would be the same unit as normal, just with vet then somewhat okay, but you have different, Ace unit by itself, so it should start even on vet 0 with leveled TC. So you can kind of stop with Ace vet.

Rangers nerf with cost goes along with reinforce, vet change, same with grens. For grens the MP44 upgrade can be reduced to 2, that is still in the air. On the other hand, how exactly would you like for 410 MP unit with "150" Munni upgrade, without air drop act? Like volks? They don't have invul to arty, airstrikes etc like KCHs had.

There is like no reason for aces to have any vet at all, so why should I give aces vet2, when you have different unit than the normal? If it would be the same unit as normal, just with vet then somewhat okay, but you have different, Ace unit by itself, so it should start even on vet 0 with leveled TC. So you can kind of stop with Ace vet.

No, I can't stop asking for ACEs to become Vet2, they don't feel any different from normal ones.. they used to have Vet 3; that was the only thing that made them somewhat more unique from regular versions... Now u want it to come even at Vet 0??!! There is more than a reason to set it at Vet2, because the distinguished abilities are unlocked only at Vet2. How come an ACE be unable to use the special abilities and still need veterancy for them??!!

Rangers nerf with cost goes along with reinforce, vet change, same with grens. For grens the MP44 upgrade can be reduced to 2, that is still in the air. On the other hand, how exactly would you like for 410 MP unit with "150" Munni upgrade, without air drop act? Like volks? They don't have invul to arty, airstrikes etc like KCHs had.

This way the situation will be even worse for the Def doc, now they can't get more than 2 MP44s to their Grens.. or am I wrong??!! The change makes no sense.
Not to mention that I never saw a Gren squad with 5 MP44s in Terror doc...

No I don't want it to came at Vet 0, I want it to come at Vet 1. They are different, if you don't see it then well... we can make them regular

Def doc is fine because def bonuses.
That you haven't seen it doesn't mean anybody else didn't.

JimQwilleran wrote:

Wolf wrote:- AT gun Halftracks have unified range of 60 but in camo/static mode gain +5 range

To be honest it's a fucking shame. US 57mm ht was best weapon to kill camping PE with mortar HT...

Hey Wolf, is this a sure change? Can't stop this? Caus u know, 75 axis at haltrack can kill Jumbo or Pershing without a problem, and US 57mm is only useful vs halftracks, without longer range it will suck .

Ask MarKr about that, I didn't really care about that change tbh, so I don't know the reasoning (or well, maybe I have it in PM, and probably don't remember, but still, ask mark )

Wolf wrote:Ask MarKr about that, I didn't really care about that change tbh, so I don't know the reasoning (or well, maybe I have it in PM, and probably don't remember, but still, ask mark )

Ah, ok thx.
..
..
..

(MAAAAARKR, HONEY.... WE HAVE TO TALK!)

Hey Wolf, is this a sure change? Can't stop this? Caus u know, 75 axis at haltrack can kill Jumbo or Pershing without a problem, and US 57mm is only useful vs halftracks, without longer range it will suck .

What would you like for US 57mm HT? The thing cannot actually kill even PIVs (or at least not reliably) so it is primarily for attacking light vehicles. Maybe the range could be increased a bit but how helpful will it be? You still won't be able to take on medium tanks and Mortar HTs can be taken out even with the range of 60.

By the way Axis 75mm HTs are also affected by the standartization of 75mm/L48 guns, so their chances against Pershings and Jumbos are now much lower (actually due to bug the PE 75mm HT had veeeery high chance to penetrate Pershing at max range).

No I don't want it to came at Vet 0, I want it to come at Vet 1. They are different, if you don't see it then well... we can make them regular

Ok, make them regular! But with Vet 2 also combined with Vet 2 commander then.

I don't think anyone would mind making them regular units.. since they are already regular in my opinion The "Ace" bonuses they might currently have are kind of absolutely nothing observable at all.
But alright, as said.. go ahead and make them totally regular... Better to become a Vet 2 regular tank than this current bullshit! ^^

Def doc is fine because def bonuses.
That you haven't seen it doesn't mean anybody else didn't.

Wait, I think that I actually made a mistake with my sentence above regarding this... Because Def doc already can't get more than just 2 for 50 ammo right now I have probably misunderstood the whole thing here...
So; the Terror used to get 2 ones for 50 ammo as well.. then 3 ones through the doc unlock. And now u have removed the 2 ones as they shouldn't be possible to upgrade anymore as long as or only AFTER the Terror doc MP44 unlock item is chosen... Right?

Well, if that's the case.. then it's actually not a bad change! Because I have never ever seen 5 MP44s upon a single 1 Gren squad anyway.
But still.. there was no need really to restrict what is not popular after all.
I mean... Why restricting the possibility of obtaining 5 MP44s while it's very rare already?? I am really unsure about this one, can't really tell seriously whether if it's a good change or actually not.

MarKr wrote:What would you like for US 57mm HT? The thing cannot actually kill even PIVs (or at least not reliably) so it is primarily for attacking light vehicles. Maybe the range could be increased a bit but how helpful will it be? You still won't be able to take on medium tanks and Mortar HTs can be taken out even with the range of 60.

Yes, just look what I wrote:

JimQwilleran wrote:and US 57mm is only useful vs halftracks, without longer range it will suck

I know it's not good vs Panzers, I want it to be good vs vehicles. It's the only good use for it so why nerfing? Do u want it to became useless completely? Please leave that HT as it is.

I know it's not good vs Panzers, I want it to be good vs vehicles. It's the only good use for it so why nerfing? Want it to became useless completely. Please leave that HT as it is.

It's not a nerf.. more like an adjustment; both HTs get +5 more range now when ambushed.
MarKr said the Axis 75mm HT is nerfed against Pershings and Jumbos too!
So the change is just fine in my humble opinion. Or, I don't really care about it either...

I honestly don't understand the whole halo about grenadiers. They got 3 MP44s for free, so you saved 50Munni per unit and got +1 atleast (that is one thing that MAY BE CHANGED), for 400 MP you got unit that is regarding to armor etc. still grenadiers that you can get in other doctrines too. So they have flame nades (+5 munni now, was considering +10 before), VT which I have heard like 2 nebels with VT = SHIIIT!, 25% less supression, so there isn't problem I guess?
So now:

Terror has got better grenadiers in form of -50 Munni per unit, +1 MP44 than normal (again, can change), now with +10 MP cost, which if I am not mistaken goes along reinforce cost a bit up, they will need 1,5x more exp to vet up. So is that 50 munni that what makes them "so OP" like I hear? because I also hear that they are totally fine in other doctrines.

Axis units are generally more suited to longer range combat, while allied more to CQB so when I see 3x long range axis units going vs 2x non long range units then claiming "its so OP" isn't really working for me. Yes, they needed a bit of tuning, but lets not turn them into useless units.

I honestly don't understand the whole halo about grenadiers.

Neither I do...

But certainly the 2 MP44s which are possible to upgrade for 50 ammo are NOT the problem, because as I said.. they are never used like this with 5 MP44s anyway.

Don't remove the 3rd MP44 provided by the unlock... U also don't have to remove the 50 ammo 2 MP44s upgrade from Terror doc in my opinion.. but at the end it won't differ that much anyway since it's not common to use them with 5 MP44s after all.
Just lower their HP a bit... If they have 85 then maybe 75? Rangers have how much?! Don't really know to be honest.


About ACEs again, I don't mind making them regular units with Vet 2!

Well I understand that with combination of units it should be hard on resources, which is a bit negated by that -50, however only if you play on kind of resources rich map. So I do undestand it in SOME ways and in certain situations, however that is not a problem always and depends on other factors.

Regarding Grens, one last time. They are not elite infantry because they have unlimited numbers, low price, low reinforcement time and cost, but somehow they have as much HP as most of the elite infatry in game, in fact they are just elites with the price of basics. There is nothing wrong with their equipment and StG44 removement is not needed at all, just adjust their HP to a normal lvl, they shouldnt be more durable than PE stormgrenadiers, currently they perfom like KCH children, they can run under heavy fire, score some kills with schreck and flame nades and than retreat, this unit doesnt require any skill because reinforcement is cheap and you can easily make this silly assaults all the time saving res for Panther G at the same time.

So, if you want them to be elites than increase their reinforcement cost and time, if they are not supposed to be elites, than tune down their HP to a normal lvl.

As for the update, I like all changes but I ask you to reconsider ideas which were proposed before.

- MarkR idea about adding luft pioniers into barracks costing 270 MP but without MP40 upgrade and without para reinforcement, this unit has zero combat value in late game and its painfully expensive to pay 390 MP for unit which only can repair and build some flaks.

- Airborne AT capabilities, still the worst AT doc, you decided not to bring recoiless back, okay, think about rocket run reward instead of bomb run OR camo for 82s. AB doesnt have all kinds of 17 pounders like raf, doesnt have pak emplacements, unlimited upgraded zooks and arty like inf doc, their AT strength is stil very very poor, every experinced player can steamrole the entire AB with a single Panther, you just need to aware of Hellcat ambush ( which also might fail anytime ) and once dodge bomb run ( which is expensive, can just miss or be shot down by AA )

And dunno if Mark asked you about an idea to make Grille and Stupa available without a reward, but one can not be built when another one is already fielded, that wont affect the balance much, but will make def doc a bit more appealing.

In which way they are elites? Because of HP? They are not elites, they are primary terror unit, but I would not consider them elite. They do get 3x MP44 for free, that is imo their biggest strenght, but otherwise they are not much different from BK grens or def doc grens, that have different bonus.

Wolf wrote:In which way they are elites? Because of HP? They are not elites, they are primary terror unit, but I would not consider them elite.

Well, but they act like elite. They could use a small (5?) hp decrease.

Wolf wrote:In which way they are elites? Because of HP? They are not elites, they are primary terror unit, but I would not consider them elite. They do get 3x MP44 for free, that is imo their biggest strenght, but otherwise they are not much different from BK grens or def doc grens, that have different bonus.

Because of how tough is to kill them, together with low cost and free weapons their cost effectivness is just crazy and if you wouldnt consider them elites, well, why the heck they have so much HP lol, why so much harder to kill than PE stormgrenadiers which are kind of SS and its assumed that they had better training?

Wolf wrote:In which way they are elites? Because of HP? They are not elites, they are primary terror unit, but I would not consider them elite. They do get 3x MP44 for free, that is imo their biggest strenght, but otherwise they are not much different from BK grens or def doc grens, that have different bonus.

NO, 3x MP44 for free is fine... Don't forget u already nerfed this unlock before! It used to require 2 CPs only.. now it requires 3!

What about the zeal unlock?! Talking about this thing which we firstly manage to unlock before the MP44 item, it's located right above the MP44s Terror doc unlock for 1 CP... It doesn't give any bonuses??!!


But if u want my opinion, here is a suggestion; I would totally change it back... I would make the 3x free MP44s unlock require only 2 CPs like in the past.. while providing just 2x MP44s in return! While giving 1 more MP44 to the 50 ammo MP44s upgrade with increased price by 25 ammo.
So, it will be like the following... 2 MP44 for free after 2 CPs, 3 MP44 for 75 ammo.
This can improve the Def doc Grens, they currently get just 2 MP44s!

But anyway, u could just also leave it exactly as it is for now without changing the MP44s at all.. while lowering their HP and that's it!
They already received +10MP cost which is fine... But maybe consider a basic price increase for Rangers as well; 360MP is quite low.

By the way, before it was said that AB bomb run got fixed ( no more bug when it does zero damage even with direct hit + bigger damage and a bit better AoE ) was it forgotten in the patch note or?

Edit: Also if I remember correctly jeeps and WH schwim recieve 30% more damage now.

Sukin-kot (SVT) wrote:

Wolf wrote:In which way they are elites? Because of HP? They are not elites, they are primary terror unit, but I would not consider them elite. They do get 3x MP44 for free, that is imo their biggest strenght, but otherwise they are not much different from BK grens or def doc grens, that have different bonus.

Because of how tough is to kill them, together with low cost and free weapons their cost effectivness is just crazy and if you wouldnt consider them elites, well, why the heck they have so much HP lol, why so much harder to kill than PE stormgrenadiers which are kind of SS and its assumed that they had better training?

Are you sure that you are not overestimating a bit? I looked at some replay recently, one plane strike, 2 gren squads almost dead, grens frontal atack against rangers with weapons, grens dead, 2 snipers, grens fucked. Even from my experience, it was always more about terrain, distance etc against grens, not about that they are op or unkillable. Yes, grens are better fighting on open field, especially when sitting duck in cover, and honestly they have what, like 5 HP more than regular rangers? You know how small percentage it is? So for that matter I still think that mp44s are biggest problem, because it gives opportunity to use ammo for something else (stuka f.e.), which doesn't matter that much on resource rich maps anyway. And generally I don't think they are problem at all with recent changes, they needed tuning, but not huge tunning.

And to get back to your 3 terror game... well it is also a bit of placebo effect in these, when you see pretty much only grens, yet what I see that have kills are mostly snipers, gebirgs and one squad of grens, it would be the same as against 3x raf, 3x AB etc... you'll see the same unit everywhere and it seems like they are cheap, undying or whatever. But they were regularly losing units.

@AB bomb run is markrs