Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

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aufklaerer1912
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by aufklaerer1912 »

XAHTEP39 wrote:
aufklaerer1912 wrote:Hi, i was wondering why at boys can damage WH sdkfz 251 in all its versions. It has 30mm frontal armor while boys can penetrate 23mm at 100m ca.. Is it possible to make that sdkfz more resistent to those boys squads in long distances? Thanks for your work

Sfkfz 251 is just 14mm frontal armor. Probably are you mean WH/PE Sdkfz 234/1,/2,/3,/4 ("Puma")? Puma has 30-mm frontal armor.
But yes, WH/PE "Pumas" are penetratable by Boys and 12.7-mm M2 at front in BK-mod, what is unlikely IRL.


Yes sorry i was meaning pumas

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by XAHTEP39 »

- Sabotage squad infantry mines cost set to 15 ammo

Yes, thanks for this "forgotten" S.Mines :)
But what is "range of sight" in "stealth (crawl) mode" by PE Sabotage squad ? I check it in this past post http://forum.bkmod.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1019&start=100#p11299
If Sabotage squad moves in crawl - much vision range, if they don`t move in crawl - less vision range :?
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

@sandman332;
Same here, agreed.

Yes sorry i was meaning pumas

Sometimes AT rifle boys hit the puma but cause no damage to it btw... So, I believe it's just fine.


I haven't yet tested anything as I am still unable to do so atm but I will surely try to have a look soon whenever possible.

However.. that I do have some questions for now;
- Jeep should take more damage now

Does this also include the Inf doc 50.cal and the Armor doc RL Jeeps or is it only the basic one? And what about the SAS Jeep?!
Shouldn't they cost less in return? Or the changes here aren't that significant I assume??!!

- M3 T48 range returned back to 75; in camo it now loses some range but gains slight accuracy buff

Well, but now.. the WH 75mm HT with a max range of only 65 isn't enough either specifically when knowing that the gun isn't as deadly anymore against Jumbo and Pershing... Maybe give it more range in ambush, +10 instead of +5 perhaps.

Hmm.. and what about the Johnson animation? Does the Croc now finally provide more XP??
What about the 3 snipers available in Inf doc and maybe AB doc too? Just remove these special additional snipers from both docs maybe.

Keep up the good work, will probably give further feedback when I test it at some point.

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Devilfish
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by Devilfish »

XAHTEP39 wrote:Sfkfz 251 is just 14mm frontal armor. Probably are you mean WH/PE Sdkfz 234/1,/2,/3,/4 ("Puma")? Puma has 30-mm frontal armor.
But yes, WH/PE "Pumas" are penetratable by Boys and 12.7-mm M2 at front in BK-mod, what is unlikely IRL.

If we wanted to do the "IRL" thing, it would change ton of BK units. In this particular case, AT boys rifles were not even used in service anymore in the years the game is set in. But balance is always the priority. If you make Puma frontally immune to AT boys and no other change, it will simply totally break balance, since if you rush for Puma as WH you can entirely steamroll brit positions (or basically force every brit to rush for field truck and piats or waste even more res for glider and 6pdr, which would probably still come bit later than Puma).


To the patch, guys didn't you kinda forgot about raf SAS? They are completely unbalanced imo. Firstly their weapon setup is illogically mismatched. Thompsons with double Bren don't provide any synergy, thompsons are specifically close-combat weapons, often being fired on the move, while enclosing the enemy, practically useless in bigger ranges. Brens fire only when stationary and are good at mid(long?) distance. Secondly, their price/reinforcement is ridiculously high for their performance. By the time they are available, field is crawling with elite/pseudo-elite axis inf, with vet and deadly heavy weapons, SAS are dying easily/quickly like flies, now if you add it up with their cost, it's terrible. Only real possible use of them is as super-expensive AT team, though they seem to miss more often than not.
I know this matter was discussed in the past, but with what result? What do you think?
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

I disagree.. although that I have once asked for cheaper SAS in the past... But now after re-thinking, I simply found out that this squad is immpossible to kill in late game specifically after both the offensive and the defensive doctrinal upgrades; as they could simply walk in front of HMGs even!

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by MarKr »

XAHTEP39 wrote:But what is "range of sight" in "stealth (crawl) mode" by PE Sabotage squad ?
I checked it really quickly few days ago and was surprised to find nothing off...I'll take a closer look at this when I have time.

Does this also include the Inf doc 50.cal and the Armor doc RL Jeeps or is it only the basic one? And what about the SAS Jeep?!
Shouldn't they cost less in return? Or the changes here aren't that significant I assume??!!
Only the basic .30cal because it was reported that it takes little damage and Engineers can repair it faster than it takes damage. No cost changes.

Well, but now.. the WH 75mm HT with a max range of only 65 isn't enough either specifically when knowing that the gun isn't as deadly anymore against Jumbo and Pershing... Maybe give it more range in ambush, +10 instead of +5 perhaps.
No. Axis 75mm HTs were never meant to perform well against Jumbos and Pershings so there is no reason for any further buffs for them. They can take out Medium tanks just fine, can camo/use static mode which boosts their range + they are faster than the tanks. The problem with T48 is that it doesn't perform well even against medium tanks. It performs well only against light vehicles and with the range brought down there would be no reason to use it at all. Keep in mind that even with the special range, the accuracy is still poor just as well as penetration (well...light vehicles get penetrated easily but it is not like the range of T48 would threaten you medium tanks).

Does the Croc now finally provide more XP??
What is the big fuss? Panthers give 16XP, Tigers 18XP....only Axis super heavies give around 30XP. So how much XP you guys think it should give? :?
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

What is the big fuss? Panthers give 16XP, Tigers 18XP....only Axis super heavies give around 30XP. So how much XP you guys think it should give? :?

Huh?! What??!! Noway.
Through this video of mine;
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfv7XSnGBmQ
Check minute 45... I got 27XP for killing an Achilles, and 31XP for losing the Tiger!!
Currently Croc just gives 19XP if u kill it.. and only 10 XP when u lose it; it should give like 27/40 at least.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by Sukin-kot (SVT) »

The icon of PE defensive arty barrage is missing (those which u can call from the buildings, though this shit is totally useless xD)

Have u fixed random drop of Johnson and Recoiless?

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by MarKr »

Missing icon - thanks for report. Will be fixed.

Weapon drop - it is not included in new beta but it is on the to-do list for final version.
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by Devilfish »

Tiger1996 wrote:I disagree.. although that I have once asked for cheaper SAS in the past... But now after re-thinking, I simply found out that this squad is immpossible to kill in late game specifically after both the offensive and the defensive doctrinal upgrades; as they could simply walk in front of HMGs even!

Well I used them yesterday, had all CP vet upgrades and they were far from walking in front of mg. Now i cannot vouch for it 100% since I scarcely use them, due to...well I don't even know, common opinion of them being not worth it or at least I thought so. But at least the weapon setup is wierd, right?
Guys, are any of you using them on regular basis when playing raf? With any success?


On a different matter, I cannot run the beta installer again. When i launch it, it simply gives me eternal "loading" mouse pointer, 3 processes appear which do basically nothing and use no resources. They can't be killed by any means (task manager kill, taskkill command, 3rd party ProcessHacker), only restart/relog works. Exactly same thing happened with the first beta installer, i made it work only thx to Sukin uploading it for me, don't know what else did he change with it. Anyone else experiencing the same problem? I'm running win7 x64.
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by Sukin-kot (SVT) »

Sometimes, very seldomly, I drop SAS in order to give zooks to a normal commando squad OR to use them as point destroyers ( yes, they can do it, weird that almost nobody knows about that ). But overall I agree that unit is pretty much useless, there was a very good suggestion to give them satchels insted of commando charges, dunno why it was ignored by devs, also since smoke doesnt make squads invisible anymore allow them to use granades even when smoke is activated pls.

And the reason is.... I dont know even, they just always fail to kill something, zooks can only hit the dirt and brens + thompson combo makes little sense.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by Wolf »

Weapon drop should be fixed in this beta, I did it last minute.
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

Well I used them yesterday, had all CP vet upgrades and they were far from walking in front of mg. Now i cannot vouch for it 100% since I scarcely use them, due to...well I don't even know, common opinion of them being not worth it or at least I thought so. But at least the weapon setup is wierd, right?
Guys, are any of you using them on regular basis when playing raf? With any success?

With the Vet upgrades, they don't just walk in front of HMG42s.. as they literally could actually sleep in front of it too!! The HMG will just keep firing rubber bullets at them without any kind of exaggerattion... I used them quite often; and they saved me most of the times.
The weapons setup might be weird a little bit, but unlike the situation with the Sten Commando squad in the past.. they don't just get Stens together with Brens as they do get 3 Thompsons, 2 Zookas as well as 2 Brens... So I believe it's just fine as an elite multi-role unit! They also can throw normal grenades which can't be done as other regular Commando units, they have booby traps and camo by default etc.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by Rubytooth_UA »

Sukin-kot (SVT) wrote:

And dunno if Mark asked you about an idea to make Grille and Stupa available without a reward, but one can not be built when another one is already fielded, that wont affect the balance much, but will make def doc a bit more appealing.


Good idea with Grille. It is common situation in 3x3 and 4x4 games (only in big games you need Def doc) when you decide to play Grille but forget to switch. If you change rules and make possibility to play Grille or Brum (not reward) it will make Def doc more flexible and appeal.
Rule is simply: 2 Grille or 1 Brum fielded - thats it.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by JimQwilleran »

I want to report a few bugs.
1. Hotchkiss is too hard to penetrate. It a was pre-war 30~40mm tank, but Staghound/Daimler can't penetrate it, even if they manage to do so, their hit takes like 1/8 Hp. You just cant hunt it with some fast gun...

I would generally recommend some adjustments to Allie's little guns (Greenhound, Staghound, Daimler) they should have better penetration, higher RoF and better damage imo.

- Greyhound and Staghound = M6 37mm gun (500 m distance pen: 59mm http://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php?title=37_mm_Gun_M5#M6_2)
- Daimler = QF 2-pounder (500 m distance pen: 53,3 mm with Little John http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/gb/AT-guns/2-pounder.php Trivia: 2-pdr had Rate of fire : 22 rpm... while Axis Pak 36 13 rpm.

Those guns should penetrate all Panzers except H/J. :roll:

2. Can you check penetration values of Hotchkiss, in my last game it 1-shot recce, I saw it killing even shermans... with 29 mm of penetration :? ?

3. New Panzer IV F1 bounces almost every Piat shot, are you sure that it's ok? It's only max 50mm of armor... It's not J or H.

Sukin-kot (SVT) wrote:

And dunno if Mark asked you about an idea to make Grille and Stupa available without a reward, but one can not be built when another one is already fielded, that wont affect the balance much, but will make def doc a bit more appealing.

Yea, I support the idea too.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

Devilfish wrote:If we wanted to do the "IRL" thing, it would change ton of BK units.

That sentence was very correct...

So, I don't like to hear for example that Hotchkiss is too hard to pentrate unless it's a balance issue or that Pz4s should be easier penetrated anyhow etc.
Wolf even hasn't agreed removing the flank speed from Tigers when I asked so although it would be more realistic.. simply because Tigers are the most expensive in their tier right now!
Not to mention that the same way someone else could then ask that 50mm paks should deal more damage against Greyhound... And that KT should be never penetrated from the front by 17p, would that be fine for the pvp balance I wonder?

But anyway, yet currently all the Allied 37mm guns do still have some chances to penetrate Pz4s btw.. including even both the J and H as I have also seen it happening quite often... Also the Diamler could actually beat the Stug if it ever manages to keep flanking.
PIATs however weren't made to reliably penetrate Pz4s at all specifically from the front.. as its main purpose was to hit from the above or the rear in order to immobilize or deal some crit damage... So, it's just fine.
Hotchkiss has 37mm gun, the AT gun version of this thing does have some very low chances to seldomly kill the Recce by just a single one shot sometimes, so.. why shouldn't the Hotchkiss be capable of also doing this? Or is it a balance issue somehow??!! Killing the Hotchkiss has now become too difficult nowadays or what??

These aren't bugs to report...

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by JimQwilleran »

Tiger1996 wrote:So, I don't like to hear for example that Hotchkiss is too hard to pentrate unless it's a balance issue or that Pz4s should be easier penetrated anyhow etc.
Wolf even hasn't agreed removing the flank speed from Tigers when I asked so although it would be more realistic.. simply because Tigers are the most expensive in their tier right now!
Not to mention that the same way someone else could then ask that 50mm paks should deal more damage against Greyhound... And that KT should be never penetrated from the front by 17p, would that be fine for the pvp balance I wonder?
This is no argument. Just because one idea was not approved, doesn't mean that some other idea won't be approved.
Tiger1996 wrote:Also the Diamler could actually beat the Stug if it ever manages to keep flanking.
Not talking about Stug
Tiger1996 wrote:Hotchkiss has 37mm gun, the AT gun version of this thing does have some very low chances to seldomly kill the Recce by just a single one shot sometimes, so.. why shouldn't the Hotchkiss be capable of also doing this? Or is it a balance issue somehow??!! Killing the Hotchkiss has now become too difficult nowadays or what??
You are wrong. Axis pak 36 and 37 mm APX SA18/38 gun of Hotchkiss are entirely different guns.

Tiger1996 wrote:PIATs however weren't made to reliably penetrate Pz4s at all specifically from the front.. as its main purpose was to hit from the above or the rear in order to immobilize or deal some crit damage... So, it's just fine.
Excause me?

Before you say something try to find out some source:

The weapon had a monstrous kick. On another occasion in Italy, a British soldier fired his PIAT from the shoulder at a Panther tank. The recoil knocked the soldier on his behind, but he got his tank. “Within its limitations,” as one authoritative weapons encyclopedia put it, “the PIAT was a startlingly effective weapon.” However, that opinion was not universally shared by the men who had to use it.
http://warfarehistorynetwork.com/daily/wwii/ordnance-the-british-piat-projector-infantry-anti-tank-gun/

On 16 May 1944, during the Italian Campaign, Fusilier Frank Jefferson used a PIAT to destroy a Panzer IV tank and repel a German counterattack launched against his unit as they assaulted a section of the Gustav Line.[35]

On the night of 21/22 October 1944, Private Ernest Alvia ("Smokey") Smith used a PIAT to destroy a German Mark V Panther tank, one of three Panthers and two self-propelled guns attacking his small group. The self-propelled vehicles were also knocked out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIAT

One member of Airborne Forces – Major Robert Henry Cain was awarded a Victoria Cross, partly for his use of a PIAT defending the perimeter during Operation Market Garden and destroying a heavy German Tiger Tank in the process.

https://paradata.org.uk/content/piat-anti-tank-gun

It was effective against any of the lighter German vehicles and could stop a Panzer IV and Panther tank while also able to disable Tiger I.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=48

Please tell me more about your historical knowledge. The penetrating/critical/top hit is still hit... I don't know why do u say some stupid things about "reliable front hit". Also Panzer IV F1 max armor is 50mm, Piat's penetration is 75mm. Is that hard to comprehend?

Tiger1996 wrote:These aren't bugs to report...
You are not the one to decide about this.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

Please tell me more about your historical knowledge.

No, I will not do that or even waste my time replying this... We are also not having a debate down here since there are even no reasons or any objective goals for it.. as we are here not discussing history nor realism and it's not either the right place to do so!
But don't ever think that the people whom u r talking with are somehow ignorant about it, everyone here knows very well what the PIAT is. These links add nothing...
'Bugs' were never about penetration values.. u know.
Last edited by Krieger Blitzer on 23 Mar 2016, 16:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by JimQwilleran »

Tiger1996 wrote:No, I will not do that or even waste my time replying this... We are also not having a debate down here since there are even no reasons or any objective goals for it.. as we are here not discussing history nor realism and it's not either the right place to do so!
But don't ever think that the people whom u r talking with are somehow ignorant about it, everyone here knows very well what the PIAT is.
'Bugs' were never about penetration values.. u know.

Ok :D. When you have no arguments u just don't want to waste time to reply xDxD. But it's ok dude, I understand you :D. You can be yourself, don't hesitate to do so :).

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by Devilfish »

Bringing in few more bugs.
-sas jeep and (reward)tetrarch are invisible on tactical map
-37mm axis at captured by sappers cannot camo or shoot or move
-luft 88 vt doesn't trigger all 88 on the field
-us aa is super effective against luft planes,single emp taking it down before entering map
-henschel thing missing like shit, dunno if rng or bug
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by Sukin-kot (SVT) »

Devilfish wrote:-us aa is super effective against luft planes,single emp taking it down before entering map
-henschel thing missing like shit, dunno if rng or bug

Can confirm this, especially quad cal. effectivness against Stuka planes, sometimes they shoot it down with a single bullet (on previous pages I posted the replay where 6 Stukas got immidiatelly shot down by base AA right after entering the map ). Also Henchels are very strange, sometimes they just miss all the shots even when you have perfect sight on a targeted area, and sometimes they shoot at infantry though there are vehicles in the sector xD (see the replay called "best HE sherman ever" there axis had 2 Luft docs so Henchels were used every 10 minutes and lots of times they failed to kill a single vehicle )

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by MarKr »

Devilfish wrote:Bringing in few more bugs.
-sas jeep and (reward)tetrarch are invisible on tactical map
-37mm axis at captured by sappers cannot camo or shoot or move
-luft 88 vt doesn't trigger all 88 on the field
-us aa is super effective against luft planes,single emp taking it down before entering map
-henschel thing missing like shit, dunno if rng or bug

- I'll try to fix unit visibility on tac map
- I'll check the sappers capturing stuff, though I think I already have and found no reason for the behavior
- luft 88 VT...can you provide more details? Under which circumstances some don't fire? Is there some number of 88s that works fine but from a certain ammount they don't...that sort of things.
- I guess we can bring down the effectivity of quad .50cal against planes a little bit.
- Henschels are weird...there were only two things changed about them - crit type (to fix the "Out of Control" bug) and then we removed the icon from the ground in order not to alert opponent about the ability. None of these things should cause targetting problems so I have no idea why it should act any different from previous versions :?
Henschels actually missed even before but since the shot causes no visible explosions people often never noticed that but to "miss every shot" that is weird...targetting infantry is even weirder.
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

Well, so.. I have finally had the chance to try it out... Everything went cool so far; however that the DF for the emplaced 88s of both docs (Def and Luft) isn't working. The ability is present but it doesn't get activated!

The JP Veteran Shot ability misses the target quite often... 100 ammo and Vet3, should never miss the target just like the ALRS.

The Johnson animation isn't fixed yet. As I am also still looking forward to see the Croc giving more XP when destroyed or killed.

ALL base AA turrets never respond to any given attacking orders, they always randomly choose their own specific target to shoot at! While u can't even guide them with any different orders.

The AI and the handheld AT weapons are currently just fine...

I am also curious regarding what will be exactly done in order to restrict having 3 snipers as AB and Inf docs. I would say just remove that one from the Rangers truck in case of Inf doc as well as to delete the special AB sniper too.

And oh yes, the SP together with Elephant and JT should not provide TCs inside them plz!

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by Sukin-kot (SVT) »

As far as I know AB cant get 3 snipers, glitch with droping AB sniper and building normal one isnt working like with ranger truck.

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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

Post by Sukin-kot (SVT) »

Wtf happened to AB bomb strike again? Recently two times it did a direct hit to PZ4 and Tiger and caused zero damage.

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