Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

[PiotrW]

Yep... "new" squad AI seems to be broken.
I wonder if the "new AI" is definitely working as intended (even if it looks defective), or we got wrong version of AI files.

Is it possible to release another beta without "AI optimisations", but all other changes included ?
I can't wait to see new PziV F1

[Krieger Blitzer]

Actually the handheld AT weapons aren't even bugged!

AT is bugged! Enemy attacks me with sherman; I just finished making shrecks and sent them to the front, they get there, aim at tank - and 1 shreck fires and the other one STARTS RELOADING... Isn't that bugged?

No, not a bug... As far as I know.. this was intended by MarKr as a solution to some other bugs including an issue with double shooting as a very stupid glitch; now any fresh soldiers that get equipped or upgraded anytime by handheld AT weapons will need to reload first before being capable of shooting their first rockets! Why? Well, this was done like that in order to fix some different bugs.. one of them was a double shooting glitch like I said previously... Now let me explain how they were able to make double shooting sometimes without this fix:-
U have a squad that consists of 4 men for example.. 1 of them has a Schreck, a PIAT, an RL or even a Zooka, and u have ordered this unit to attack a target... The guy with the handheld AT weapon makes the shot as he fires the rocket then instantly dies to incoming enemy fire.. guess what will happen next??!! Some other dude of the same squad will quickly pick up the handheld AT weapon instead of his mate who has been killed just moments ago... And fires again!!!

[MarKr]

Tiger, you're not completely correct... the reload stuff was introduced in order to prevent the bug you describe but the current behaviour is not what we wanted. I mean in case the soldier fires zooka, dies, another soldeir takes zooka and fires immediately then yes, there it would solve the problem. However if the squad runs woth loaded zooka to a tank and the soldier with zooka dies before he fires, then the next dude to pick it up must reaload which leads to the stupid situation when soldiers just run to a tank, stand there and stare, do nothing and get killed. This was not intended. So the changes regarding the hand-held AT weapons will be set back to what it was before and we'll try to find another solution to this bug.

I wonder if the "new AI" is definitely working as intended (even if it looks defective), or we got wrong version of AI files.

I don't know what Wolf is planning but I would say we should try to release next beta with the removed changes of handheld AT weapons and see if the infantry still bugs as hard as now. If yes removal of new AI would be at place for the final release.

[Krieger Blitzer]

However if the squad runs woth loaded zooka to a tank and the soldier with zooka dies before he fires, then the next dude to pick it up must reaload which leads to the stupid situation when soldiers just run to a tank, stand there and stare, do nothing and get killed. This was not intended. So the changes regarding the hand-held AT weapons will be set back to what it was before and we'll try to find another solution to this bug.

Hmm... Just wondering about the another solution that u will try to find! Well, what about adding some aiming time to ALL the handheld AT weapons after that if possible anyhow? It wouldn't completely prevent the double shooting though but at least.. it can help in some ways I think.

I don't know what Wolf is planning but I would say we should try to release next beta with the removed changes of handheld AT weapons and see if the infantry still bugs as hard as now. If yes removal of new AI would be at place for the final release

I would honestly say the opposite; try the next beta with a removed squad AI then let's see if the changes made upon the handheld AT weapons are really harmful or not.

[JimQwilleran]

I wonder if the "new AI" is definitely working as intended (even if it looks defective), or we got wrong version of AI files.

I don't know what Wolf is planning but I would say we should try to release next beta with the removed changes of handheld AT weapons and see if the infantry still bugs as hard as now. If yes removal of new AI would be at place for the final release.

I am very glad to hear that. Really, the change of AI is not a balance/cost/unit change as it were. It's a change of something more general, more universal as it is connected to every inf unit, therefore is a very delicate matter. For example I notice every single stupid move of my inf (and makes me climbing walls) whereas other people I talk to state that they see no change at all with this patch, and have no clue what am I talking about.

[Wolf]

I personally can see the difference, but I also didn't see such a big differences like you say... so it is kind of surprise to me, that its working that bad for you. Some squads might use slightly different AI files, isn't your problem related to some particular squad, that might use wrong or different AI?

Beta II will be released probably in the evening today...

[Wake]

Will anything be done about these guys from the Churchill? Either change them to something cool or remove them, because it is like a troll for new players that don't know that it's total a waste of resources.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

@Wake

What exactly wrong with them? They come with 2 Brens by default, therefor costing 70 MP more, thought this ability for vet.3 tank makes no sense.

[Wake]

@Wake

What exactly wrong with them? They come with 2 Brens by default, therefor costing 70 MP more, thought this ability for vet.3 tank makes no sense.

Well actually, that's the problem with them - they don't actually come with 2 Brens. I was curious as to what this weird ability actually does so I tested it in a CPU game.

It's just a standard infantry section with 1 Bren (not 2). The biggest problem is that they can't buy a 2nd Bren though, or any other upgrades for that matter. Other than these, there is no difference between this squad and a normal infantry section. So basically, this ability gives you a 435 MP squad, but instead of paying 55 munition for a Bren, it gives you one for free for an extra 65 MP. I think that is a pretty bad trade, especially because you cannot purchase a second Bren.

[JimQwilleran]

I personally can see the difference, but I also didn't see such a big differences like you say... so it is kind of surprise to me, that its working that bad for you. Some squads might use slightly different AI files, isn't your problem related to some particular squad, that might use wrong or different AI?

Beta II will be released probably in the evening today...

Actually I was most frustrated with grens. I don't remember how other units were doing, but grens definitely were the worst. Combining it with not firing shreck...

I will tell you the story. I was fighting US; enemy made mortar HT, I tried to kill it with grens with shreck. So I run to the HT and stop the squad in the right moment to shoot. But instead of firing his shreck the soldier runs the opposite direction to some bush... HT runs away.
The other time I stopped them with "hold position" and the shreck guy just didn't fire, even though the HT was in range. He was pointing the tube at the enemy but beside that no reaction.
Also in close inf combat I want my soldiers just to fire their weapons, currently they do many unnecessary movement that impairs their firepower. And no, I don't want to use "hold position" button all the time. It requires unnecessary micro, and makes you easier target to grenades or other projectiles. With "hold position" I can not immediately take advantage of running enemy, chase them etc; even more annoyingly, if I used more than 1 squad the micromanagement would get squared. That is why I say that it breaks the inf combat.
These were my problems.
Nice that there will be Beta II, but there is 1 problem... Idk if anybody will play it, everybody switched to old patch to find any games. Only person who organized matches with beta patch was Sukin...

[Krieger Blitzer]

For the infantry section squad, it just shouldn't require any veterancy I think...

@Jim;
It's just a 'beta' so far; therefore I can see absolutely no reason at all for any kind of frustration!

[Wolf]

And we can always revert AI, and with that I am pretty sure that 4.9.5 is a lot better than 4.9.3 overall.

[JimQwilleran]

And we can always revert AI, and with that I am pretty sure that 4.9.5 is a lot better than 4.9.3 overall.

Yes that's true, there are many good changes in this patch. I generally like your balance ideas, they really make the game even, as I enjoy playing both allies and axis.

[MarKr]

@Illa: The thing with AT not shooting is probably caused by the changes I mentioned before which will be reverted in next beta. As for the "infantry runs for cover rather than shooting"do you use "attack" order or "Attack Move" order? As far as I can tell when I order a squad to attack, they open fire right away...

[JimQwilleran]

As for the "infantry runs for cover rather than shooting"do you use "attack" order or "Attack Move" order? As far as I can tell when I order a squad to attack, they open fire right away...

I never use "Attack" order if I face 1 enemy. I mean if there is 1 enemy squad, there is no use of pointing it. But before the patch AI change everything worked normally. Am I supposed now to click on every single enemy I want soldiers to fire at :/? Pretty sucks. What is any good that AI change do?

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

As for the "infantry runs for cover rather than shooting"do you use "attack" order or "Attack Move" order? As far as I can tell when I order a squad to attack, they open fire right away...

What is any good that AI change do?

Same question here.

[MarKr]

I haven't made the AI tweaks but the changes should be summed up here:

"Idle" AI (Completed Move Orders)
Before:
- When encountering an enemy, AI tells the squad to move in until all squad members are within 95% weapon range
- After reaching 95% weapon range, squad will try to find cover
After:
- When encountering an enemy, AI tells the squad to find cover
- Squad will not move if already in cover
- Squad will not move if the target is out of weapon's range

"Attack" AI (Attack or Attack Move Orders)
Before:
- AI tells the squad to move into 100% weapon range
- After reaching 100% weapon's range, squad will try to find cover
- Over the next ~30 seconds, AI tells squad to move up to 60% weapon's range
- Finds cover as it goes
After:
- AI tells the squad to move into 100% weapon range
- After reaching 100% weapon's range, squad will try to find cover
- Squad will remain at 100% weapon range
- Squad will periodically check for new cover, but won't move out of cover

[Wolf]

It was based on comments here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=786

[Krieger Blitzer]

I think that after the AI change, it's supposed that ur squad shouldn't jump anywhere at all or even try to find cover when attacked nor when ordered to attack a target or to at least reduce this behaviour by quite a lot... As it was meant or mainly intended to be that way.. but the complete opposite somehow occurs!

However that anyway, I would say to just revert both the AI and the changes of the handheld AT weapons together as long as the AI isn't working properly which is pretty obvious I guess; then to add some aiming time to all handheld AT weapons and that's it.

[Wolf]

You can give it a try... AI changes reverted for time being, there are still some small things left for final.

http://files.bkmod.net/Blitzkrieg_4.9.5 ... _Patch.exe

[PiotrW]

New PzIV looks and works pretty well, but it has no name.
There is only "$18100.. no range" instead of PzIV F1.

[MarKr]

Oh crap...I forgot to update the text files...Will be corrected in next beta/final release. Thanks for report.

[sandman332]

When I manually installed the new squad ai files from the improved squad ai thread I saw a huge difference. I really liked it. They were not leaving cover all the time anymore when they saw an enemy and were generally much improved, however once I tried this new patch (even tried clean install of the game) the ai was just so bad. Either the ai files were installed wrong, given the wrong ai files or another change in this patch is messing them up because I found them perfectly fine when I manually installed the "improved squad ai" files.

[aufklaerer1912]

Hi, i was wondering why at boys can damage WH sdkfz 251 in all its versions. It has 30mm frontal armor while boys can penetrate 23mm at 100m ca.. Is it possible to make that sdkfz more resistent to those boys squads in long distances? Thanks for your work

[XAHTEP39]

Hi, i was wondering why at boys can damage WH sdkfz 251 in all its versions. It has 30mm frontal armor while boys can penetrate 23mm at 100m ca.. Is it possible to make that sdkfz more resistent to those boys squads in long distances? Thanks for your work

Sfkfz 251 is just 14mm frontal armor. Probably are you mean WH/PE Sdkfz 234/1,/2,/3,/4 ("Puma")? Puma has 30-mm frontal armor.
But yes, WH/PE "Pumas" are penetratable by Boys and 12.7-mm M2 at front in BK-mod, what is unlikely IRL.