About popcap of emplacements

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XAHTEP39
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Location: Saint-Peterburg, Russia

About popcap of emplacements

Postby XAHTEP39 » 01 Feb 2016, 20:56

MarKr, probably present requirements of popcap (menlimit for build) for emplacements is forgotten bug :

1) PE Bunker costs just 550MP; it didn`t have any upgrade abilties, just empty bunker, where you can hide inf or MG42 squad.
WH Bunker costs 550MP (450MP after upgrade in DefDoc, many upgrades in DefDoc, MG upgrade in all Docs) ... and 4 popcap??! Why EMPTY WH bunker (without upgrades WH bunker equals PE bunker!) require menlimits?
IMHO, starting price of WH bunker should be without menlimits (only 550/450MP), but upgrade abilities must to save AMMO cost and to add requirement for some menlimits (maybe different for different upgrades).

2) WH/PE/US/CW MG-emplaement requires 6 popcap - this shreds inf and has suppression ability and has sector fire;
WH 20-mm Flak 38 L/65 AA Gun require 4 popcap - anti-inf, damage light-vehicles, AA and has 360 angle-fire;
WH 20-mm Flak 38 L/65 AA Gun Emplacement require 6 popcap - anti-inf, damage light-vehicles, AA and has 360 angle-fire + more secure;
IMHO, MG-emplacements require popcap so much (capabilities of static AA weapons is wider with low or same popcap), maybe reduce to 3-4 popcap for MG-emplacements?

P.S. I forgot, what is the menlimits for US static quad .50/CW Bofors/PE Flakvierling 38 (and emplacements analogs) but AFAIK menlimits is same (4 & 6).

Wake
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Re: About popcap of emplacements

Postby Wake » 02 Feb 2016, 06:24

As far as I know, the amount of pop cap that each unit takes up has been mostly ignored, because it really isn't a issue. Most BK games are usually played with 250 popcap, which is almost always more than enough. And if you find yourself reaching that much, then there is the unlimited pop cap mode.
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XAHTEP39
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Re: About popcap of emplacements

Postby XAHTEP39 » 02 Feb 2016, 17:55

If 250 or unlimited popcap, then yeah... not issue, but on small-medium map popcap is advisable to be 150 or more conrol-flags->more popcap, that not to spam many armors and use more flexible tactic with restrained forces.

Does not matter whole popcap limit, popcap (and cost too) of similar units between two forces should be standardized.

About popcap of MG-emplacements compared AA-emplacements - it is just my opinion proceeding there combat efficienty.

kwok
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Re: About popcap of emplacements

Postby kwok » 02 Feb 2016, 23:49

Technically the recommended settings are 225 popcap, so I think that's the setting the game will be focused in balancing for. Part of the reason why pop cap and cost are not standardized.

But there is a LOT of reasons why costs/popcaps are not standardized. The game has asymmetric units, tech trees, and play styles (it will always be axis vs allies) which is agreeably much harder to balance, but makes it even more important that costs are NOT standardized. It's why it's almost never accepted by devs that "oh rifles are only 240 mp, so volks should be too," is a valid argument. I don't think it should be accepted either.

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XAHTEP39
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Re: About popcap of emplacements

Postby XAHTEP39 » 03 Feb 2016, 10:40

Okey, I undestard points about prices between Allies and Axis, It is not standartizated values.
But in the past we had issues of price between same units of WH-PE and even doctrines, for example prices of Nashorn SE and TH was different (it was wined now); now we have same Pz.IV ausf.F2 in WH and PE with different price.
Therefore, I note about empty bunkers of WH and PE, which has different popcap price 4vs0 (it is a part of price, such as MP,Ammp,Fuel).

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Butterkeks
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Re: About popcap of emplacements

Postby Butterkeks » 03 Feb 2016, 11:23

PE Bunker can house 12 people, WH bunker only 8(?). Therefore PE Bunker has higher popcap maybe?

ALso I agree on the point that popcaps don't really matter as the most played game style is static 250 popcap.
Even with dynamic popcap these small amounts don't really hurt.

kwok
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Re: About popcap of emplacements

Postby kwok » 03 Feb 2016, 21:30

Asymmetry exists within factions as well. Each faction has its own strengths and weaknesses, even within each doctrine. So costs asymmetry must exist as well otherwise there'd be no reason to choose on faction over the other within a side. It's the same reason why British units are so expensive compared to USA yet it doesn't make British underpowered. In fact, British hardly focus on early game resources and cost because build order is more important than cost management.
Meanwhile on the Axis side, the fact that PE has cars and combat vehicles available off the bat while WH only has infantry, which means PE has much more power in the early game. The tradeoff is probably more expensive late game like more expensive tanks, even though they are the same tank.

I'm not saying the costs of all units are perfect, they can be adjusted. But blanket cost standardization isn't fair.


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