Firestorm in brit territory

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Devilfish
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Firestorm in brit territory

Postby Devilfish » 29 Jan 2017, 11:11

Hey,
So I've played on Autry yesterday and I was unable to use FIrestorm call-in inside the territory secured by british HQ/Field/Armor Truck. Now it's not certain, cause Autry has only 3 territories on one side (excluding middle fuels), so all of them (3) were secured by trucks and in theory it might have been bugged for enemy territory in general, but I doubt it.

Has anyone else experienced this?
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JimQwilleran
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Re: Firestorm in brit territory

Postby JimQwilleran » 29 Jan 2017, 12:44

Yes, it's always like that. If it's good or bad, I can't say clearly :|.

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Devilfish
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Re: Firestorm in brit territory

Postby Devilfish » 29 Jan 2017, 15:18

I think it definitely shouldn't be like this, since you can lock down mid map sectors, which can be quite big on some maps and you gain automatic protection against off-map (don't know if it's just firestorm). As I see it, british HQ trucks sacrifice safety for mobility, closer reinforcement and retreat and closer unit deployment and as bonus preventing enemy from capturing (key) sectors. Not even saying it's not really about not being able to off-map HQ truck rather than units fighting in given sector.
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JimQwilleran
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Re: Firestorm in brit territory

Postby JimQwilleran » 29 Jan 2017, 16:11

I think it's ok. HQ is a sacred non-bomb place. You should not face a situation when fire falls from the sky on you and pressing retreat button does nothing. That would be highly unfair.

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Devilfish
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Re: Firestorm in brit territory

Postby Devilfish » 29 Jan 2017, 17:03

I probably wasn't clear enough. I got an impression that you can't off-map if sector is locked up by any of the trucks - HQ, Field or Armor. Which doesn't apply to your sacred HQ and no retreat idea.
But I still don't agree with you. You have an option to push your HQ further, not an obligation. So it's up to you to take a risk or be safe and keep the HQ truck in the base starting sector (where off-map is forbidden).
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JimQwilleran
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Re: Firestorm in brit territory

Postby JimQwilleran » 29 Jan 2017, 17:21

It prevents only bombing HQ sector I think.

What about a situation when the enemy scouts your HQ truck with plane and the other player bombs it with off-map? And you cant retreat, soldiers are pinned and dying in flames. Still fair?

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Devilfish
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Re: Firestorm in brit territory

Postby Devilfish » 29 Jan 2017, 18:31

Just what I said. You are taking a risk pulling it outside your base sector. Nobody forces you to do so. You can retreat them to the captain if he made it alive, but that's irrelevant really.

For me, the math is simply. 3 factions can't move their bases, so they retreat to the very beginning and are safe there. Brits can do exactly the same. They just have an option to go out and risk it.

The only slight catch is that they cant OP points. But I'm sure that their US mate (95% of games there is US) can build one more OP if they feel like not risking HQ truck in the open wild world.
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JimQwilleran
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Re: Firestorm in brit territory

Postby JimQwilleran » 29 Jan 2017, 19:17

Dude, what if brits player has his HQ is the starting position? And gets bombed there? It has nothing to do with moving ur HQ further.

Your logic is like: You can move your truck, so it's ok you get bombed even if you didn't move it at all, because you possibly could...

You can't punish for something not done (yet), or simply just for a possibility of doing something.

Following your logic we could also take away base AA from brits (they don't need it, they gonna move the HQ anyway). So where is the border? I think we should follow some kind of "fairness". If bombing bases with call-ins is impossible, then there must be a reason. Why shouldn't the same reasoning work for brits?

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Devilfish
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Re: Firestorm in brit territory

Postby Devilfish » 29 Jan 2017, 20:01

No, I mean you are safe in the very beginning base sector. But maybe it's engine limitation, like wherever is HQ truck is consider base sector, thus no off map. Not sure.

What I mean is, you shouldn't be able to off map in starting sector, but if you move HQ truck forward, then yes, in the given sector.
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JimQwilleran
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Re: Firestorm in brit territory

Postby JimQwilleran » 29 Jan 2017, 20:56

I think both things are strictly connected. You just can't bomb a territory with HQ. Notice that if you destroy the HQ building of the other factions, you can call the arty there. So yea, I guess it's the engine limitation. I don't think u can make calling in impossible only for the starting sectors regardless of the fact if the HQ is still there or not.

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Tiger1996
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Re: Firestorm in brit territory

Postby Tiger1996 » 30 Jan 2017, 10:55

I think the Firestorm should be a little bit cheaper, just that.. from 200 to 185 or so.

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Devilfish
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Re: Firestorm in brit territory

Postby Devilfish » 30 Jan 2017, 13:22

I hoped Mark would respond here, so I'm gonna assume he's got nothing to add because it's just like Nami said, engine limitation, can't do anything about it.

@Tiger
It's kinda off topic, but I agree.
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MarKr
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Re: Firestorm in brit territory

Postby MarKr » 30 Jan 2017, 13:27

I haven't checked but I think that when you deploy CW trucks, the sectors they are in are flagged as "base sector" and some abilities are restricted to be unable to use in base sectors and I also think that for the engine each faction needs to have a base sector.
And when Devilfish says that nobody forces CW to move out of starting sector...well technically you are right but parking the trucks in a sector is the only way (appart from lvl3 Captain who gives resource boost too) for CW to squeeze more resources from points. So CW would be stuck with basic resource income or would need to rely on US team mate to build OPs. So keeping all three trucks in one sector is literary wasting resources.

Ehm...the discussion is about whether CW trucks should prevent Firestorm and other off-map abilities in their sectors and Tiger comes in just to say for a hundred time that Firestorm should be 15 ammo cheaper...I mean, can you think of a better example of derailing a topic? :D
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Tiger1996
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Re: Firestorm in brit territory

Postby Tiger1996 » 30 Jan 2017, 13:37

and Tiger comes in just to say for a hundred time that Firestorm should be 15 ammo cheaper

I think the Firestorm should cost 185 ammo... :D
Now it's a hundred time; plus one :mrgreen:
I mean, can you think of a better example of derailing a topic?

It might be off-topic.. but ya, it's still Firestorm related! SO :P

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Devilfish
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Re: Firestorm in brit territory

Postby Devilfish » 30 Jan 2017, 13:38

So it applies for all the trucks then. I mentioned the only catch being getting more res from sectors. But you can use both Field and Armor truck. As these shouldn't prevent off-map, don't know if it is possible to change. If you get off-mapped you can retreat to HQ, no problem. As for HQ truck. You can just ask one more OP from US mate if you aren't willing to risk it. Honestly, I'm not sure if securing gives you same the boost as US OP or more, same as I didn't know about the captain, how does it work?

So again, I'm going to assume it is not possible to allow off-map in HQ truck sector excluding the starting position. But at least allowing it in Field and Armor ones would be fair.

Tiger likes to take advantage of every possibility he gets :).
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MarKr
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Re: Firestorm in brit territory

Postby MarKr » 30 Jan 2017, 15:06

I am not sure if it applies to all trucks but it is possible. It might be possible to remove it but I am afraid that there are some CW abilities that have their functioning conditioned by being (or not being) in base sector so removing of the "base sector" flag would also require checking all abilities in CW and correcting or reworking them to keep them functional in the same way as now which would be incredible amount of work for, honestly, not much gain.

Captain and resources: You need to have him at level three and then he increases by approximately +3 income from ammo or fuel sector he is in and iirc this stacks with other abilities that buff income from sectors (OPs or parked trucks). So it is not a huge help but over time it can be quite some sum of extra resources.
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