Sherman tulip hiting everything

[Frost]

ive been playing with CW res royal eng and i noticed that tulip hit everything in front of it i mean it should go higher from the ground so it shouldn't and also it the tirget was 1 inch away it wont do damage
i hope it get fix or at least make rocket fly above

[MarKr]

It is kinda same principle as with Nebelwerfers that use the barrage ability with low angle - the rockets can hit buildings/treelines etc. so you need to have clear line of sight.
As for the damage problem...I thought the AoE was fixed last time...I will check it

[Frost]

in ww2 it wasn't designed to be like nebelwerfers because it go from higher angle than nebelwefers

and also don't forgite that its fired from tank turret means also most likely not to hit most of things like it is now

and i hope that you fix it soon

and cheers )

[Krieger Blitzer]

I believe there is nothing wrong currently with Tulip rockets AT ALL. On the last patch, which is the current version.. the Tulip rockets were tuned nicely... So; now their AoE is MUCH better and always deals decent amount of damage whenever it hits, specifically medium vehicles and lightly armored targets, while they are still very cheap as well.

[Frost]

you didnt get the problem

i was in game with someone and trying to hit halftruck and the rocket hit very close to halftruck yet deals no damage

so aoe is a problem and i tested myself so many times hit very close yet rare dose damage

and also tulip rocket were meant to fly from bit high angle so that it don't hit the things from ground which is happening now

[Krieger Blitzer]

Make sure you are using Bk v4.9.5 please.
I also tested it several times through pvp games, and there is literally noway that it could deal no damage whenever it hits anyhow... I even killed a JagdTiger with only 4 rockets!

Tulip rockets shouldn't have more accuracy, since they are relatively too cheap.. not to mention the CW Sherman itself is also not any expensive. Yet, such a huge range too...

[Frost]

its not about hitting its about aoe you see when the rocket get near the Target it should do damage

and it dosnt ive tested it so many times

[MarKr]

I am not sure if the changes announced last time actually made it to the current version because I cannot see the files (probably some mistake). I made some tweaks so at least when the rocket hits very close, it should not happen that they deal no damage. I don't know if the angle should be changed...for "clasic" indirect support you have 95mm Churchill and this is an extra option so simply players should find better position to fire the rockets rather than being able to shoot them pretty much anywhere.

[Frost]

yeah ive been acutely using 95 mm more since the rocket is not quite eff but it is a needed to hopefully damage the german heavy tanks

still not needing a command tank give it an advantage over the Churchill and the speed

thx and cheers )

[MarKr]

For heavy tanks you have Firefly, comet or Achilles or any 17pounder. The thing is that RE is usually sitting on tons of ammo and giving them rockets that are devastating would be OP... The Sherman is not limited to certain number of units so you could simply build several of them and spray an area with the Tulips. Even if they are inaccurate you would makexup for it in number of rockets.
"still not needing a command tank give it an advantage over the Churchill and the speed"
Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by this?

[Krieger Blitzer]

I am not sure if the changes announced last time actually made it to the current version because I cannot see the files (probably some mistake). I made some tweaks so at least when the rocket hits very close, it should not happen that they deal no damage.

Wait, do you mean you just made some further tweaks on this thing once again for the next patch?
Or, did you only mean that you just can't find the files where you already made those tweaks on the current version??!!

I would say you shouldn't change anything further on Tulips. As I could assure you that the Tulip rockets are now much better than before... Obviously the changes you made are currently represented as far as i can see.

For heavy tanks you have Firefly, comet or Achilles or any 17pounder. The thing is that RE is usually sitting on tons of ammo and giving them rockets that are devastating would be OP...

SO yup, that's definitely true.

If you are still not sure though, then I think I can upload for you an unlisted video about it.. so that you could see for yourself how the Tulip rockets are great.

The Sherman is not limited to certain number of units so you could simply build several of them and spray an area with the Tulips. Even if they are inaccurate you would makexup for it in number of rockets.

But I am afraid you are not aware of the fact that it's impossible to obtain more than 4 Tulip rockets at a time ^^
Because, the Tulip rockets upgrade itself is actually limited to only 2 tanks btw Which means.. even when he buys a 3rd Sherman; he won't be able to upgrade Tulip rockets upon it! Unless he first loses one of his 2 Shermans already having Tulips.

Anyway, as i said... Tulips are absolutely fine now.

[Frost]

For heavy tanks you have Firefly, comet or Achilles or any 17pounder. The thing is that RE is usually sitting on tons of ammo and giving them rockets that are devastating would be OP... The Sherman is not limited to certain number of units so you could simply build several of them and spray an area with the Tulips. Even if they are inaccurate you would makexup for it in number of rockets.
"still not needing a command tank give it an advantage over the Churchill and the speed"
Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by this?

i meant that tulip have high mobility which is good and also easy to get in game fast



and tiger i know its good ive tested but the problem is that it should have a little more aoe to match most of art in this game because it is already inaccurate and why make it up also very low aoe and hitting everything in front ?

but the power is absolutely good

[Krieger Blitzer]

Tulips are cheap, it costs only 35 ammo per use.. and just 50 or 40 ammo to upgrade? Not much cool-down time either... Not to mention that the CW Sherman itself is not any expensive too!
They are really fine as for the current state.
But any further improvements would simply result in making them more expensive, we should keep this in mind.

[MarKr]

OK, whatever on the number of upgrades...but "improvements would simply result in making them more expensive" - I'm not talking about giving them damage buff or range or anything, only tweaking them so that they will not cause no damage on direct hit - it can still happen.

[Krieger Blitzer]

That's fine, even though it would still mainly depend on evaluations at last.. if you improve the AOE... We will become in need to test that on the next beta; only then we could decide whether if it should really have any increased cost or not

[MarKr]

only then we could decide whether if it should really have any increased cost or not

ehm, who is "we"?
So, you're saying it is fine if a rocket hits right next to a vehicle and the vehicle doesn't taky any damage what-so-ever? They already have poor accuracy so WHEN they hit something they should at least do something.

[Krieger Blitzer]

"we" = community.

So, you're saying it is fine if a rocket hits right next to a vehicle and the vehicle doesn't taky any damage what-so-ever?

You seem so confident now.

Just real quick.. I then decided to make this short video for you!
This video is unlisted; it was only uploaded for testing purposes. Only those who have the link can see it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT5YKvAYuQI

I am afraid this is how you are going to tweak the 90mm guns too
So ya, better nerf the Tulip rockets rather than improve them any further.

[MarKr]

I never said that the rockets NEVER do any damage when they hit close. I said it is POSSIBLE that they do no damage.

Anyway...for your video - do you think it is OP that a Jagdtieger dies when it gets hit directly whith three of these rockets? Or what was it supoesed to prove?
Anyway...it is funny that you managed to pick JT out of all possible targets. Because JT in deeded is kinda easy target for Tulip rockets. But e.g. JPIVs have about 25% chance of avoiding damage even at direct hit, KT? 80% (for a front hit), Panthers - about 50%, PIVs differ according to type but all of them have a chance to avoid damage - even the Stubby ones, StuG about 20% (actually more due more modifiers), Your favourite Tiger about 60%...for some reason Marders, Hetzers, Jagdpanthers, halftracks and armored cars and Jagdtiegers have pretty much guaranteed gamage on hit. And for some even weirder reason friendly fire is even more dangerous than when shooting at enemies

So ya, better nerf the Tulip rockets rather than improve them any further.

So ya...I should better make those Marders, Hetzers etc. as resistant as the PIVs etc. That will totally improve the usefulness of these rockets.

I am afraid this is how you are going to tweak the 90mm guns too

Don't worry, 90mm guns will perform just fine...actually I wrote a small script that checks for the owner of the targetted vehicle - if the owner has nickname of Tiger1996 or ora096, there will be an extra penetration multiplier of +30%....I hope you will appreciate all the time I invested in this, it is a real masterpiece

[Krieger Blitzer]

So ya...I should better make those Marders, Hetzers etc. as resistant as the PIVs etc. That will totally improve the usefulness of these rockets.

Trolling? xD

Don't worry, 90mm guns will perform just fine...actually I wrote a small script that checks for the owner of the targetted vehicle - if the owner has nickname of Tiger1996 or ora096, there will be an extra penetration multiplier of +30%....I hope you will appreciate all the time I invested in this, it is a real masterpiece

**** You

But for real now dude, let's talk seriously please...

Anyway...for your video - do you think it is OP that a Jagdtieger dies when it gets hit directly whith three of these rockets? Or what was it supoesed to prove?

Actually, not even 8 rockets of these are supposed to scratch a JagdTiger btw.

Tulips should be good only against medium targets such as Panzer4 and etc, while in fact.. they already are! According to what you say, and also according what i can see in the game.

So, i would just say keep everything as it is currently.. don't touch anything. Except that JagdPanther should have like 75% of avoiding the damage.
JagdTiger should have like 90% on the other hand.
Rest is fine... Thanks in advance for your precious efforts

[MarKr]

OK, I won't argue about its effectiveness because I don't know how strong that thing was in reality but still, you say to nerf it against heavier things that currently die to it fast but shouldn't...well, fine with me, but then PIVs and things that would die to it fast, actually should die to it fast too.

Also the "no damage" chances are for direct hit, if it hits close but not directly then the chances drop too. Also if we consider the size of the rocket, its AoE is kinda small... it is about as much as US grenades have - the visual effect does not correspond with the actual blast radius.

On the side note, the Tulips actually don't have that much of a use - for indirect fire against infantry/tanks the 95mm Churchill is better, because it fires more rounds with smaller spread so you have better chance of hitting something, while for emplacements AVRE does the job well and is accurate too. If Tulips become even weaker against heavies, then what will be their purpose? They are even now quite unreliable due to inaccuracy.

[Krieger Blitzer]

you say to nerf it against heavier things that currently die to it fast but shouldn't...well, fine with me, but then PIVs and things that would die to it fast, actually should die to it fast too.

Hmm? What do u mean?? Are PIVs and those things that would die to it fast, not dying as fast already? I kind of fail to get the meaning of this sentence tbh

If Tulips become even weaker against heavies, then what will be their purpose? They are even now quite unreliable due to inaccuracy.

Currently Tulips are obviously OP against JagdTiger and JagdPanther, other than that.. they are still pretty effective for sure... Enough that they are VERY cheap and require no veterancy at all.
And they definitely shouldn't do shit against any type of heavy tanks.. it was you who even said that himself btw!

For heavy tanks you have Firefly, comet or Achilles or any 17pounder. The thing is that RE is usually sitting on tons of ammo and giving them rockets that are devastating would be OP...

When also mentioning the JT, isn't it supposed to be the most heavily armored Axis tank in the game?

So ya. JagdTiger and JagdPanther should be MUCH more resistant to these rockets indeed... While everything else is fine regarding those rockets. I mean, absolutely nothing has to change except this! Tulips currently do very fine against all other target types.

[MarKr]

Hmm? What do u mean?? Are PIVs and those things that would die to it fast, not dying as fast already? I kind of fail to get the meaning of this sentence tbh

I mean that vehicles such as PIVs and JPIVs should always take damage on direct hits. ATM JPIVs have 25% chance of not getting a scratch on direct hit, stubby PIVs have about 20% (!) while PIVs with long barrel have way less.

[JimQwilleran]

Tulips are more like a gadget or a troll weapon vs noobs. They have almost no use in a serious game, they require too much micro, including constant watching of the path between the tank and the target. Even if RE player has a lot of munition, shermans still soak some manpower and fuel, which are always precious for RE.

And if you want to know about Tulip's historical performance... I will just say that Hawker Typhoon uses the same RP-3 rockets as are mounted on sherman tulip.

[MarKr]

Yes, I already said that the usefulness of these rockets is limited, however I think that IF you use them and they hit somethingt by a miracle, then it should not happen that targets such as PIVs don't take any damage on direct hit.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Tulips are more like a gadget or a troll weapon vs noobs.

I used to believe the same... But after i've recently seen their current performance against almost all kind of targets through several pvp and testing games, i then came to realize that they are absolutely OP. As i could safely say that they are actually better than the AB airstrike.. specifically against the JT.
Only difference that 4 rockets only cost 60 ammo. While the AB airstrike costs 200 ammo on the other hand!

I mean that vehicles such as PIVs and JPIVs should always take damage on direct hits. ATM JPIVs have 25% chance of not getting a scratch on direct hit, stubby PIVs have about 20% (!) while PIVs with long barrel have way less.

Oh, 25 and 20% is that much?? Really??!!
Are you aware how much cheap these rockets are? with such a huge range too?!

Speaking of the historical accuracy of Tulip rockets, they are high explosive 76mm rockets... And it's true that they were used by the Typhoons, but basically anything that hits you from the above would be deadly for sure.. even regular heavy machine gun bullets fired by air planes could either burn the engine of the tank or probably even penetrate the roof of the turret while killing the entire crew.

But when Tulips are mounted on a tank, they were roughly used against any enemy vehicles at all... As they were mainly used against buildings, bunkers, inf and roadblocks.
Actually, they were never used against tanks.. since it's pointless.

Not to mention that these rockets were NEVER equipped on a tank before late 1945.

If anyone is looking for a source, then here are some;
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/g ... -Tulip.php
Tanks encyclopedia is such a famous website that i would like to use as a reference for now.

On the second headline titled as "The Sherman Tulip Tank" i quote the following 2nd and the 3rd paragraphs:-

The first Sherman tank was equipped with the two rockets on Friday 16th March 1945. Lt Boscawen welded rocket launching rails on his tank on the following day and conducted a successful test firing. The decision was then made to arm the whole Squadron and later the Battalion with Rockets.

It was a short range blunderbuss weapon that would deliver a very impressive loud explosive immediate response to being ambushed as tanks advanced along close-country roads and village streets in the Netherlands and Germany. It was not meant to be a highly accurate weapon that could hit moving targets. They were designed to saturate the immediate area, kill and shock any surviving enemy combatants into surrender.

And under the headline titled as "Post War report on the use of rockets fired from tanks" i quote the following 3rd paragraph;

The rocket was found effective in removing road blocks and barricades when they were covered by enemy fire. It worked better than ordinary HE and AP shells. They were not used against any enemy tanks chiefly because very few AFVs were encountered at close range and because they lacked aiming accuracy.

Wikipedia also says pretty much the same. Anyone could check that himself...

So ya, above all... Tulip rockets were only used almost at the end of the war. They were rather nothing than just a huge harmless explosion sound that was meant to spread horror among enemy soldiers and cause them to surrender!

Tulips should be better at killing tank traps, bunkers and roadblocks... JagdTiger and JagdPanther should be absolutely immune to these fireworks.
And you shouldn't buff Tulips any further against any PIVs, JPIVs, Stugs or whatever.