[MAP] Benedictine Cider (8) [POLL]

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Spawns Configuration

Poll ended at 28 Nov 2017, 16:14

Keep spawns in 'X' patern, like in the screenshot bellow
2
29%
Move allied faction spawns on the same sides, so it makes a more classic frontline patern (like RN13)
5
71%
 
Total votes: 7

Snowstorm
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[MAP] Benedictine Cider (8) [POLL]

Postby Snowstorm » 12 Jan 2017, 02:20

Hello!

I am new poster and old lurker on these forums. I am not very active community member, but I have a group of friends with whom we play quite competitive BK. We only occasionally play with other people. So coming out like this on the forums is new for me. I do not know you people very well, or how PvP BK is usually played (meaning outside of our group). We like playing on large maps with room to manouvre. Best in BK is to surprise attack from an unexpected direction, or counter an attack because you had well placed scout. This shows in my maps. I don't know if you people would like these types of maps, as in my experience playing on a larger ones (2v2 on 3v3 map for example) is a very different experience than struggling for choke points, like with the typical CoH maps.

In our group the main problem is that we know too well all the worthwhile maps, and started to desire more content. Outside of Blitzkriegs own map pack there are very few maps which would be pleasing to the eye or interesting to play. Usually one downloaded from the webz has no preview minimap, no loading screen and the map itself is for instance huge swathes of nothingness dotted with empty flak 88s. Or something like that. Even better ones usually are very bland looking. I myself appreciate the visual pleasantness of a well designed map, which outside of relic made ones is in very short supply.

So I decided to pick up the editor and try doing something myself. It took me a long while, but I'm somewhat happy with the result. I have a problem though; I haven't been able to organize 4v4 games to test the map properly under stress. 7 Bots make it lag on my machine, although they'd make any map lag on my shit tier old box.

I'll provide screenshots + minimaps + thought processes behind design decisions. I won't immediately make my map immediately available, as I'd like to test it out, patch it and only release a worthwhile version. I'm not sure how well optimized it actually is, or if my design makes any sense. I have been slightly... unorthodox with my design approach:

Map_Preview_fixed_start.png


You are looking at the fixed starting locations of "Benedictine Cider (8)".

As you'll all notice the starting locations are the main twist here. Both teams start in pairs on the opposite sides of the map, in an X formation. I hope this would lead to very interesting maneuvering. The map is also very large (Op goodwood long edge x Op goodwood long edge). There is also slightly too much things to focus on, so not every important area can be secured, ever. There is only one VP, in the middle, and large resource points on all edges and in the middle. This means there is always some place to push. The X starts means many surrounds and attacks from all sides, which in my opinion are way too rare on regular maps as they're loads of fun. This one is designed to create desperate defensive battles, which still aren't necessarily immediately decisive. Testing is needed to see if this works this way with human players (bots worked as intended).

Here's the minimap in colour from the editor:

Map colour.png


Every area was cleaned up to make it as render light as possible (about 250 everywhere/regular coh view distance), and most detailing has been made through usage of splats and grass. The map also features large emptyish areas, but it is still very big map with lots of stuff on it, so I can't promise that it functions perfectly on any workload. My computer always lags even on minimum eye candy, so I can't make any conclusions with my testing alone.

This is how some of the most interesting areas look in the editor:

Screenshot_Chapel_graveyard.png

Screenshot_Market.png


This represents The best this map has to offer. I have rigorously studied stock maps and ripped campaign maps to understand how the devs have made stuff. I have sought to imitate their styles, using as little objects as possible. I'm somewhat happy with the results, but there are areas that could be improved. I still think that this one serves well and provides excellent backgrounds for your blitzkrieg battles. You could even want to take a screenshot every once in a while without the map looking stupidly undetailed behind the nice textures/models the mod provides us with!

As far as map flow goes, I have sacrificed clear lanes in order to allow freedom of movement. I do have a few choke points/impassable areas however:

Screenshot_Dry_ditch.png


The water element in the middle can be utilized in defensive manner to control the map. There are also railroad canyons with destructible bridges near the edges of the map. Destroying these bridges would force the players on the other side to move all their forces through the town in the right flank. There's also a very dominating central area with the monastery itself, which helps to defend the victory point immensively. Otherwise the map is very freely traversible, and does not direct/force movement through certain areas. This is intentional as to avoid bogging down/camping (which is a legitimate strategy, but works differently on this map). Enjoy your tank manouvres.

Monastery area (the victory point, while not visible here, is behind the bushline and the tower in the top right corner):

Screenshot_monastery.png


I hope this sound/looks interesting. Would people here be want to try it out? I'd love to get some love for my work, as I put a lot of effort into it.

EDIT: Here is the download link:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/mco6s4be5 ... r_beta.sga

To install the map just put the file into "C:\Users\yourusername\Documents\My Games\Company of Heroes Relaunch\ww2\scenarios"

I appreciate all feedback!

Edit by Playmobill : renamed topic with name of the map, for clarity.
- Added poll for Spawn locations
Last edited by Snowstorm on 12 Jan 2017, 16:00, edited 3 times in total.

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Tiger1996
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Re: I have made new maps, is anybody interested?

Postby Tiger1996 » 12 Jan 2017, 02:55

Hello there!
I am absolutely interested from my side... :)
Although that there are already some preparations for a new map-pack which is currently work in progress.. as u can see here:-
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1275#p13475 And also at other topics.
Which is almost done btw, as it's going to be available soon or probably as soon as the next beta release...
However; you can still share the download links of your maps here so people can check them out whenever they are ready ;)

Wake
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Re: I have made new maps, is anybody interested?

Postby Wake » 12 Jan 2017, 06:38

This is a really good opportunity. Players from the community can interact with a mapper and let them know what they would like to see in map design. For example, do you like green, heavy cover everywhere? Do you like having the highest resource points in the middle? Do you like symmetry? What about having buildings that only have windows on one side?

The map plays a huge role in what a match will end up being like. This specific map by Snowstorm looks good, and I appreciate the thought he put into what strategies players can take in different areas of the map.
Image

Snowstorm
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Re: I have made new maps, is anybody interested?

Postby Snowstorm » 12 Jan 2017, 12:24

The main problem for me with creating a map of my own was the lack of coherent guides/help/assist. Relic apparently does not support the world editor anymore, and it's full of bugs. For example the stamp tool does not work, to get the grass types out of the grass editor I had to do some weird modding tricks. Even only saving a map and making it playable required me studying how normal maps are packed and doing it manually, as the editor wouldn't do it by itself. There really is a need for a good guide which explains and helps with technical issues, and also gives advice on how to design maps so that they wont play/look like it was slapped together in 15 minutes..

I'll release the map as it is, but mark it as beta/v0.8. Where should I put it available? They've taken down all old file sharing sites I was familiar with, and I don't want to link for example to my google drive...

I will be unavailable to edit the map and fix it for a while, so you will unfortunately be stuck with this version, whatever the quality. At least there will be time to test and give feedback. Most important would be to tell me if it technically functions properly, as in if it runs smoothly even with a 4v4 combat going on. Like I said earlier , my machine + bots does not accurately represent the maps capabilities/limitations.

Unless there are serious problems with the map, it's very unlikely i'll do serious changes to the map design at this point. I need information on whether or not there are big balance issues, movement/pathfinding issues etc. those can be still worked with. The map can't be made smaller for example.

Community driven map building could be done, but it should be guided by feedback from the beginning. It would be completely different project. I'd gladly do it, but not during this spring.

I hope I don't seem arrogant here. It's just that making these maps is really difficult and time consuming, at least to me. The world editor is pretty unflexible.

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MarKr
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Re: I have made new maps, is anybody interested?

Postby MarKr » 12 Jan 2017, 12:48

I would love to try this map too.

As for where to upload it...MediaFire.com or wetransfer.com are ones I use quite often...though as non-premium user your files will have expiration date...but in case the link would be down, I can reupload it again in case you won't available ;)
Image

Snowstorm
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Re: I have made new maps, is anybody interested?

Postby Snowstorm » 12 Jan 2017, 14:53

Allright, here you go. I will also edit the OP. I appreciate all feedback!

http://www.mediafire.com/file/mco6s4be5 ... r_beta.sga

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Jalis
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Re: I have made new maps, is anybody interested?

Postby Jalis » 12 Jan 2017, 18:46

I didnt played the map, but I checked it. Not I a great mapmaker at coh, nut I repaired quite a numbers.

Common mistake.

Avoid when possible to put map entreance on a player command territory. There is too much risk player build at that place or very close. I would cause call in problems, or even prevent it. entreance 1002 and 1004 near a HQ are for exemple especially vulnerable. If the map is dedicated to pvp only and players are awared of entreance location, you can ignore this warning.

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Jalis
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Re: I have made new maps, is anybody interested?

Postby Jalis » 12 Jan 2017, 23:15

The map for reasons I cant explain, is a bit laggy. I m not sure It could be advised for multicoop. For me it was acceptable on solo with 7 AI.

I notice however a little problem in a command territory. A wooden fence is not neutral and can be targeted as foe. Turn it neutral.

Some area of the map cause pathfinding problem for AI, but like said, but it is perhaps not so important. Except a realease makes it less laggy with AI, I m not sure it will be first player choice for multicoop game.

Snowstorm
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Re: I have made new maps, is anybody interested?

Postby Snowstorm » 13 Jan 2017, 18:57

Jalis wrote:I didnt played the map, but I checked it. Not I a great mapmaker at coh, nut I repaired quite a numbers.

Common mistake.

Avoid when possible to put map entreance on a player command territory. There is too much risk player build at that place or very close. I would cause call in problems, or even prevent it. entreance 1002 and 1004 near a HQ are for exemple especially vulnerable. If the map is dedicated to pvp only and players are awared of entreance location, you can ignore this warning.


Do you mean that you already fixed stuff or what?
I'm not trying to be mean, but I'm having slight difficulties in understanding what you are trying to say. Maybe doublecheck your grammar before posting to help us others a bit? Thanks for the feedback though.

I actually did think about blocking the map entrances as non build-able but I forgot. So I'm definitely adding that to the updated version.

Jalis wrote:The map for reasons I cant explain, is a bit laggy. I m not sure It could be advised for multicoop. For me it was acceptable on solo with 7 AI.

I notice however a little problem in a command territory. A wooden fence is not neutral and can be targeted as foe. Turn it neutral.

Some area of the map cause pathfinding problem for AI, but like said, but it is perhaps not so important. Except a realease makes it less laggy with AI, I m not sure it will be first player choice for multicoop game.


Yeah I went through the map checking the workload with the statgraph tool, but it still remains bit laggy. All-player 2v2 worked lag free, so it might be a problem with bots, like you suggested. It's also difficult as shit with bot players, as they are able to roam free and controlling the map against them is hard. I definitely did not plan this map to be a comp stomp map, but it still might be fun when played as one. If I could somehow get rid of the laggyness. It might jsut be a problem with the size of the map, there is a lot of stuff on it. Not much more than on other 4v4 maps though, so I cant say what is the difference. Splat/spline/object type quantities can be seen in scenario->blueprint list/splat list. I tried to be conservative with objects.

Where exactly is the wooden fence? That should be an easy fix. Thanks for the heads up.

I deliberately avoided creating pathfinding labyrinths, that's why the forest area has only clumps of trees/foliage instead of an even coverage of vegetation. Elsewhere than in the cider apple gardens I tried to create clear paths for all types of pathfinding to go through. Pinpointing to trouble areas will help me get rid of clutter, so do tell me where your vehicles get stuck/stupid.

I can't do much about the AI, and I don't know how the waypoint tool functions... 4 bot players was still bearable levels of lag, so maybe 4pV4ai could still work well enough?

I need more commenters like you! Cheers.

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Jalis
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Re: I have made new maps, is anybody interested?

Postby Jalis » 13 Jan 2017, 19:47

Snowstorm wrote:I'm not trying to be mean, but I'm having slight difficulties in understanding what you are trying to say. Maybe doublecheck your grammar before posting to help us others a bit? Thanks for the feedback though.



Difficulties to understand me ? welcome in Tiger96 club.

I would had better to double check my English knowledge. However nefore it become perfect I would have to stop post for a very long time. Everybody would not complain however.

Well mispelled nut is but. I want to say ; I didnt made lot of maps at/for coh. However I download a lot. Most goes directly to the trash basket. But some were good enough for I took time to repair them. So I have some experience in detecting common problem on maps, and I have also experience in repairing it.

That dont means I did it for yours.

Fence is the the guard post arm x-244.44 y10 z256.32 between hq 1006 and 1008. Checking the maps, I saw it is really neutral, but each time I played the map, AI form hq 1006 attack it until destruction. At the same time I had warning a friendly base was Under attack.

I suggest you remove and replace it, then quick test the map to be sure it is solved.

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Tiger1996
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Re: I have made new maps, is anybody interested?

Postby Tiger1996 » 13 Jan 2017, 20:42

Jalis wrote:
Snowstorm wrote:I'm not trying to be mean, but I'm having slight difficulties in understanding what you are trying to say. Maybe doublecheck your grammar before posting to help us others a bit? Thanks for the feedback though.



Difficulties to understand me ? welcome in Tiger96 club.

Well... It looks like I am not the only one who struggles with understanding your English after all :D

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Sukin-kot (SVT)
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Re: I have made new maps, is anybody interested?

Postby Sukin-kot (SVT) » 13 Jan 2017, 20:50

Add me there as well, its fking frustrating to read every post of yours xD

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Tiger1996
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Re: I have made new maps, is anybody interested?

Postby Tiger1996 » 13 Jan 2017, 20:55

Welcome to the Tiger96 club then, Sukin! :D

Jalis... My name is Tiger1996 btw :P

Arowes
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Re: I have made new maps, is anybody interested?

Postby Arowes » 25 Jan 2017, 16:27

How do I install these maps?

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Playmobill
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Re: [MAP] I have made new maps, is anybody interested?

Postby Playmobill » 07 Oct 2017, 12:45

Sorry for late answer, i discovered this topic while doing thread archeology, when we were regrouping topics related to maps.

We'll have a closer look at the map in the incoming days and give you a feedback if ur still interrested ;)
" No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making some other poor dumb bastard die for his country. "
George S. Patton

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sgtToni95
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Re: [MAP] Benedictine Cider (8)

Postby sgtToni95 » 08 Oct 2017, 09:41

Sure we are :)

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Playmobill
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Re: [MAP] Benedictine Cider (8) [POLL]

Postby Playmobill » 13 Nov 2017, 16:15

Added poll for respawn locations, please give us your feedback on this vote!
Its indeed quite unusual as it is right now, but its not necessary bad, otherwise i would have ask for a more classy spawn location strait away. This is why i wish to gather as much advices as possible on this question.
" No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making some other poor dumb bastard die for his country. "
George S. Patton

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Tiger1996
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Re: [MAP] Benedictine Cider (8) [POLL]

Postby Tiger1996 » 13 Nov 2017, 16:33

I vote to keep the spawns as they are, however... I think it would be better if 2 versions could be included; the original as well as a duplicate with re-located player spawns.. if there is time for that of course.

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mofetagalactica
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Re: [MAP] Benedictine Cider (8) [POLL]

Postby mofetagalactica » 13 Nov 2017, 20:07

Why don't you just make 2 versions of the map instead of voting for one?

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sgtToni95
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Re: [MAP] Benedictine Cider (8) [POLL]

Postby sgtToni95 » 14 Nov 2017, 09:03

I think if you put them all on one half of the map would be nicer. Would make the middle line a little longer which is like having a little bigger map.

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Playmobill
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Re: [MAP] Benedictine Cider (8) [POLL]

Postby Playmobill » 15 Nov 2017, 23:45

mofetagalactica wrote:Why don't you just make 2 versions of the map instead of voting for one?

So far this is something that we don't usualy have in BK maps (duplicates with alternate spawns). not saying it will never happen.
" No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making some other poor dumb bastard die for his country. "
George S. Patton


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