Changes for the next patch

[MarKr]

Yea buff Infantry doc and other doctrines but forget about Deffensive doc just because of the name... great...

It is not because of the name. It is about the doctrine's focus - it focuses on defense which is the opposite of offense. It has defensive capacity and that is its role in the team.
That is like saying "Infantry doc has no decent tank. So Jumbo 76mm should be available for Infantry doctrine." or "CW RE has no good arty they should get some." The role of these doctrines is simply elsewhere.

[Eldrak1911]

Are you pvp player? Good luck with this tactic:D

Ok, i must admit it, i'm more a pve player. But still. especialy with team mates, def doc prepare the field with bombing emplacements etc, and then, blitz or others can go forward.

[Warhawks97]

It's more a question of resourses, alies can build emplacements and maintain nice amount of units as well, but try that with def doc, and after building of 3 mg nests you will seat with naked ass.

"axis dont have endless MP to spam mg42 nests and pak40 emplacements like USA do"

From my previous post. So, you can build some emplacements which are stronger that alied once, but alied once are anoying because they are also covered with endless rifles, shermans and etc. Def doc cant afford this, it either goes for units, or for emplacements. Also 107mm nest which snipes out the entire squads is definately the strongest emplacement out there, it also immobolizes tanks pretty well.

From my experience def doc did tend to get up quick defenses early on. They take advantage of cheap volks with low upkeep and pios. The single 20 mm is pretty cool. High inf killing power and and also shreds vehicles.


So axis def doc usually gets defenses up on important positions. Allied that go too early for that usually die as they should take more map controle if possible instead just sitting arround few points. And at that stage axis (espcailly WH) has the advantage of upkeep and unit cost and cost efficency. And these early units keep valuable till late game due to defensive boost. Terror and BK have to swap over to grens and storms while def doc volks afterall provide powerfull mainline.


During the game the situations swaps (usually, not always). The allied start spamming emplacments in order to manage the Panthers and powerfull infantry charges and to demoralize the axis slowly. Axis do not get many new defenses and mainly keep those under repairs they have build in the early stage.


Allied need the emplacments in later stage to stand assaults in late game but these emplacments also need the support of mobile units like shermans. Lines would collapse quickly once broken. They need them to maintain map domincance

Axis use emplacments in earlier stage to hold cruical points. During the game they dont get many but those they have are powerfull and do not need much support to hold an area. But cost prevent (or should) to be spammed all over the map. In late game axis do not need many fixed emplacments to maintain map controle once they have taken it. Just get a line of Panthers and inf with lmgs and map controle is being held well.



So you have to consider these differences of emplacment use. And its exactly this effective powerfull early emplacments/bunkers that hold a few cruical points that makes def doc so special. It helps others to save important res to get late game stuff more quickly and it provides a good initial tactical situations from which mates can launch assaults more effectively.



And "we play for fun and not for frustration". Maybe tell that to armor doc? Thats often frustration when nothing, even the largest ammount of shermans you can imagine, wont bring you farther.

And more MP for def doc. They would just build more emplacments. Remember back (or still). Def players always starting HR on road or la fiere. And the lines of bunkers and 20 mm flaks being set up right away. 3 hour game trying to get somehow through the massive defensive walls.

And unless you play RA doc its mostly def doc combined with stuff like TH/Terror that really frustrates. When you sit there, sieging 3 hours the axis base and nobody and nothing gets forward even when sending more than 10 easy eights and 7 ranger squads for an assault. Thats really "anti-frustrating" playing.

[Terence's Mouth]

Yea buff Infantry doc and other doctrines but forget about Deffensive doc just because of the name... great...

It is not because of the name. It is about the doctrine's focus - it focuses on defense which is the opposite of offense. It has defensive capacity and that is its role in the team.
That is like saying "Infantry doc has no decent tank. So Jumbo 76mm should be available for Infantry doctrine." or "CW RE has no good arty they should get some." The role of these doctrines is simply elsewhere.

Of course its because of the name, because the name is Defensive and you say so has to to be the tactic too.

What are sappers then or Royal Engeneers? Just a doc to repair tanks and emplacements?
To tell me the Defensiv doctrine of Axis has to play defensive is realy unbealiveable.

You change the Infantry doc you change the Terror doc you change so many doctrines but dont change the Defensive doctrine.
How you think it will work?
If you play with defensive doc you just struggle untill the end and waiting for manpower, only thing there that keeps you alive are the emplacements(the artillery most time get easily destroyed by the Royal Artillery)
There is not much fun in playing this doctrine anymore because USA has to many units and Brits to many Artillery.
Its realy sad to play with this doctrine and using the Ground units is just hard in a way that is frustrating.
I dont like it and i want to change it.
You of course talk again now about the name or something else, i dont know where you guys live.
The def doc has realy some great units that could play a realy cool role.
If you have to play so "defensive" and "carefull" with all this units because you have to less manpower and cant loose a single unit while USA can spam nonstop tons of units its just frustrating too.
The defensive doc has to be changed that it will make fun to play with it(now dont tell me it makes fun for some people, it makes only fun for the campers and emplacements spammers)

The defensive doctrine was maybe okay in old times but not anymore because like i said its just camping and building plus the enemy can build realy to fast new units.

Tell me now you like those camping games with tons of bunkers and then just bombing and im quit.
But if you dont like then please change something, i dont tell you anymore what to change because you dont listen but please make this doctrine more attractive.

The sappers and the TH doctrine too.
You guys talk about changes but cant see how stupid it is that some doctrines are much more attractive than others in a way that is just unbelievable.

[Terence's Mouth]

@warhawks you always talk about that the doctrine does this or the player can do that, that the teammates should do this...
Its so crazy that nobody here in the forum notice that there are so many frustrating things.

The sapper doctrine and defensive doctrine just make no fun at all if you see the enemy spamming units so easily while you have to wait all time along.

All doctrines should make fun... and nobody can tell me that he like fighting an enemy that refresh his units and build new ones that he easily overhelm you the whole game and you just struggle and struggle.

There are many people who would agree with me but sadly nobody here is active in the forum. But realy cant believe how you still can say the sapper doctrine is fine, maybe you just cant compare it with the Infantry or Terror doctrine, you just dont want it , you think it doesnt has to be good like them or you just played games vs guys that didnt know how to play.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

It's more a question of resourses, alies can build emplacements and maintain nice amount of units as well, but try that with def doc, and after building of 3 mg nests you will seat with naked ass.

"axis dont have endless MP to spam mg42 nests and pak40 emplacements like USA do"

From my previous post. So, you can build some emplacements which are stronger that alied once, but alied once are anoying because they are also covered with endless rifles, shermans and etc. Def doc cant afford this, it either goes for units, or for emplacements. Also 107mm nest which snipes out the entire squads is definately the strongest emplacement out there, it also immobolizes tanks pretty well.

From my experience def doc did tend to get up quick defenses early on. They take advantage of cheap volks with low upkeep and pios. The single 20 mm is pretty cool. High inf killing power and and also shreds vehicles.


So axis def doc usually gets defenses up on important positions. Allied that go too early for that usually die as they should take more map controle if possible instead just sitting arround few points. And at that stage axis (espcailly WH) has the advantage of upkeep and unit cost and cost efficency. And these early units keep valuable till late game due to defensive boost. Terror and BK have to swap over to grens and storms while def doc volks afterall provide powerfull mainline.


During the game the situations swaps (usually, not always). The allied start spamming emplacments in order to manage the Panthers and powerfull infantry charges and to demoralize the axis slowly. Axis do not get many new defenses and mainly keep those under repairs they have build in the early stage.


Allied need the emplacments in later stage to stand assaults in late game but these emplacments also need the support of mobile units like shermans. Lines would collapse quickly once broken. They need them to maintain map domincance

Axis use emplacments in earlier stage to hold cruical points. During the game they dont get many but those they have are powerfull and do not need much support to hold an area. But cost prevent (or should) to be spammed all over the map. In late game axis do not need many fixed emplacments to maintain map controle once they have taken it. Just get a line of Panthers and inf with lmgs and map controle is being held well.



So you have to consider these differences of emplacment use. And its exactly this effective powerfull early emplacments/bunkers that hold a few cruical points that makes def doc so special. It helps others to save important res to get late game stuff more quickly and it provides a good initial tactical situations from which mates can launch assaults more effectively.



And "we play for fun and not for frustration". Maybe tell that to armor doc? Thats often frustration when nothing, even the largest ammount of shermans you can imagine, wont bring you farther.

And more MP for def doc. They would just build more emplacments. Remember back (or still). Def players always starting HR on road or la fiere. And the lines of bunkers and 20 mm flaks being set up right away. 3 hour game trying to get somehow through the massive defensive walls.

And unless you play RA doc its mostly def doc combined with stuff like TH/Terror that really frustrates. When you sit there, sieging 3 hours the axis base and nobody and nothing gets forward even when sending more than 10 easy eights and 7 ranger squads for an assault. Thats really "anti-frustrating" playing.

You wrote this big text and for what? I said that def only can go for units OR for emplacements ( what is true with no doubts ) and you reply me with this. Except bunkers there is no sense in building anything else, expensive but gets destroyed fast, also allies have all the same emplacements but in more docs and lower upkeep provided by supply yard, the only true powere were 88s, but now they are much worse than 107mm, which still snipes out the entire squads.. It's ridiculous how inf can have 10 emplacements and units which are reaching pop cap maximum when def seats around a single mg bunker with couple of inf units.

[Warhawks97]

And there is the diff.

Def doc goes early on for powerfull defenses (20 mm that blocks everything so far for a longer time for example) and bunkers. It actually just buys time and allows the team to collect enough fuel/ammo to get into powerfull late stage.

US that start that way in the early stage wont have a chance. They first need to controle a significant part of the map and supply yard before they effectively start an "emplacment siege" style which is needed to get not vanished by a single axis Tank/inf assault.

Axis in return getting in late stage less defenses but they also dont have to as all their inf in late game is very powerfull. Storms best inf actually in game, grens powerfull in terror/def doc and so on.

So if they would have their extremly powerfull defenses in masses -like allied get their mainly "cheap trash early warning emplacment stuff" that always needs aid of rifles and shermans- and additionally to that powerfull defensive stuff their powerfull grens then it would be way too crazy i think.

Before the supply yard in later mid stage is up WH has clearly a upkeep advantage (6 upkeep for volks vs 11 or so for rifes, 2 or 3 for recon vs 10 for US recon etc) while unit cost at that stage do not differ that much while having usually a very good cost performence ratio (eg 50 mm pak, pumas etc). So there you can get powerfull defenses that in my opinion arent even that costly for their performence.


Later allied get supply yard but (except SP) no kind of "high end high tier basher units". So then they get a mix of many weak-average powerfull units which can be maintained by supply yard.

i mean a combo of KT/stupa or Panthers with stupa or supported by grille and engineers with advanaced repairs and idk what else is a powerfull defense. There are not few which even say that Panthers (like2 of them) with little inf supported that has schrecks is so powerfull, that alone more or less requires priest already to get an effective offense.

And then in teamfights when def would get cheaper emplacments (which also have the def boost) and powerfull inf with defensive training which would enable axis to back up every Panther with 88´s that also function as arty support and powerfull inf protecting panthers flank? Really?

This is the exact scenario ive been facing over and over in some older versions (especially in High res games) and there was nothing more frustrating actually.

So having def doc able to spam powerfull defense+ inf (supported by stup) that allows to back every fucking panther tank with an 88 gun which during offense smashes all 17 pdrs that could maybe stop panthers. Sounds cool.....

Besides that def doc defenses are extremly durable. And since def doc has a arty power that is only inferior to CW arty doc....We will always need CW arty then to counter def arty and def defenses. Arty parties forever. Who already missed them?

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

So, you think It's fine that nobody plays defence anymore and there is nothing wrong with this doc, okay.

At this point we dont even have to look in any numbers ot theory, I belive that If particular doc beeing picked up 5 times less than others than something is simply wrong with it, thats exactly about RE, DEF and TH (also AB in some extent)

Also for me in 3v3 sometimes feels like axis turned into what alies have been in past years with a single working formula Cw arty - Tanks - Raf, just now its SE - BK - Terror.

[MarKr]

Of course its because of the name, because the name is Defensive and you say so has to to be the tactic too.

Well, if you take it like this then tell me - if you chose Infantry doctrine, do you fight mainly with tanks or Infantry? I am pretty sure you'll say infantry - if you do, then why don't you complain about that doc using mainly infantry? Do they have to use infantry mainly just because the doc name is Infantry? So more tanks for Infantry doc? That is your logic here.

What are sappers then or Royal Engeneers? Just a doc to repair tanks and emplacements?

Their role in the team is to secure captured sectors with emplacements and provide Churchills which have thick armor and can deflect a lot of shots but their weapons are kinda crap so they need some support from team too.

Global question - really guys what happened to RE doctrine? I can remember that after last patch when Churchills got buff, people were like "I love the RE now, Churchills are awesome!" or "RE is finally playable." it was Sukin, i think, who said that thanks RE it is no longer a must to have an RA player in a team. So what happened (especially when no patches were released since then) that RE is bad again?
(OK, to be fair, people also reacted like "My PIVs cannot penetrate Churchills, that's really fucked up, thanks!" but you cannot please everybody.)

You change the Infantry doc you change the Terror doc you change so many doctrines but dont change the Defensive doctrine.

With those changes we reacted to problems those doctrines had but we always tried to stick with the changes to the doctrine's purpose/fighting style. What you ask is to give a buff to a doctrine that goes against its purpose.

Its realy sad to play with this doctrine and using the Ground units is just hard in a way that is frustrating.

So what you say here is that the doctrine is NOT useless but it is harder to play than other WH docs and that frustrates you. Generally talking, playing Allies is harder than playing Axis so Allied docs should be easier to play too?

You of course talk again now about the name or something else, i dont know where you guys live.

Do you realize that what you ask for actually means that there is no need for different doctrines at all? If every doctrine has same ammount of offensive, defensive and arty options, what would be the actual sense of having doctrines? We could just remove doctrines, make every unit from every doctrine available to whoever chooses to play that faction and keep it at "Build whatever you currently need.". The doctrines make players to choose a certain approach in the game.

The defensive doctrine was maybe okay in old times but not anymore because like i said its just camping and building plus the enemy can build realy to fast new units.

What could the doctrine do in the old times? No unit/emplacement prices were changed iirc so how come they cannot do what they could in the past?

[Eldrak1911]

Of course its because of the name, because the name is Defensive and you say so has to to be the tactic too.

Well, if you take it like this then tell me - if you chose Infantry doctrine, do you fight mainly with tanks or Infantry? I am pretty sure you'll say infantry - if you do, then why don't you complain about that doc using mainly infantry? Do they have to use infantry mainly just because the doc name is Infantry? So more tanks for Infantry doc? That is your logic here.

What are sappers then or Royal Engeneers? Just a doc to repair tanks and emplacements?

Their role in the team is to secure captured sectors with emplacements and provide Churchills which have thick armor and can deflect a lot of shots but their weapons are kinda crap so they need some support from team too.

Global question

- really guys what happened to RE doctrine? I can remember that after last patch when Churchills got buff, people were like "I love the RE now, Churchills are awesome!" or "RE is finally playable." it was Sukin, i think, who said that thanks RE it is no longer a must to have an RA player in a team. So what happened (especially when no patches were released since then) that RE is bad again?
(OK, to be fair, people also reacted like "My PIVs cannot penetrate Churchills, that's really fucked up, thanks!" but you cannot please everybody.)

You change the Infantry doc you change the Terror doc you change so many doctrines but dont change the Defensive doctrine.

With those changes we reacted to problems those doctrines had but we always tried to stick with the changes to the doctrine's purpose/fighting style. What you ask is to give a buff to a doctrine that goes against its purpose.

Its realy sad to play with this doctrine and using the Ground units is just hard in a way that is frustrating.

So what you say here is that the doctrine is NOT useless but it is harder to play than other WH docs and that frustrates you. Generally talking, playing Allies is harder than playing Axis so Allied docs should be easier to play too?

You of course talk again now about the name or something else, i dont know where you guys live.

Do you realize that what you ask for actually means that there is no need for different doctrines at all? If every doctrine has same ammount of offensive, defensive and arty options, what would be the actual sense of having doctrines? We could just remove doctrines, make every unit from every doctrine available to whoever chooses to play that faction and keep it at "Build whatever you currently need.". The doctrines make players to choose a certain approach in the game.

The defensive doctrine was maybe okay in old times but not anymore because like i said its just camping and building plus the enemy can build realy to fast new units.

What could the doctrine do in the old times? No unit/emplacement prices were changed iirc so how come they cannot do what they could in the past?

Everything has been said.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Global question

- really guys what happened to RE doctrine? I can remember that after last patch when Churchills got buff, people were like "I love the RE now, Churchills are awesome!" or "RE is finally playable." it was Sukin, i think, who said that thanks RE it is no longer a must to have an RA player in a team. So what happened (especially when no patches were released since then) that RE is bad again?
(OK, to be fair, people also reacted like "My PIVs cannot penetrate Churchills, that's really fucked up, thanks!" but you cannot please everybody.)

Yep, I said that RE became at least playble, before patch it was a complete disaster doctrine, now better, but still way worse than others. We already determined a problem - overpriced units with narrow spezialization, thats why you only seat and wait for res all the time.

List of units which can become cheaper:

- Arty Churchill
- Sappers and royal sappers
- Sherman with Tulip
- Call in of canadian shermans for 1000 mp

Also arty barrage from CW arty can be moved here, arty never uses it anyway, at the same time RE often seats on maxed out ammo wiyjout an idea of how to spend them.

[MarKr]

Also arty barrage from CW arty can be moved here, arty never uses it anyway, at the same time RE often seats on maxed out ammo wiyjout an idea of how to spend them.

If you make a suggestion like this it should also include what the arty unlock should replace in RE what would RA got instead. Anyway it is true that RE usually has tons of ammo and no use for it. I'm curious if the new mine system would change this at least a little bit.

[Eldrak1911]

Anyway it is true that RE usually has tons of ammo and no use for it.

Or a simple rez trade ? Re often needs Fuel and mp more than Ammo, if Re could trade fuel for ammo, it would be something else to worry about.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Also arty barrage from CW arty can be moved here, arty never uses it anyway, at the same time RE often seats on maxed out ammo wiyjout an idea of how to spend them.

If you make a suggestion like this it should also include what the arty unlock should replace in RE what would RA got instead. Anyway it is true that RE usually has tons of ammo and no use for it. I'm curious if the new mine system would change this at least a little bit.

Maybe arty vet. training, so Priest will be coming with vet.1, or incendary shells unlock.

[Warhawks97]

Also arty barrage from CW arty can be moved here, arty never uses it anyway, at the same time RE often seats on maxed out ammo wiyjout an idea of how to spend them.

If you make a suggestion like this it should also include what the arty unlock should replace in RE what would RA got instead. Anyway it is true that RE usually has tons of ammo and no use for it. I'm curious if the new mine system would change this at least a little bit.

Maybe arty vet. training, so Priest will be coming with vet.1, or incendary shells unlock.

He asked where to put in in RE doc:)

Maybe AVRE and and 95 mm can share one unlock? Idk what exact impact it would have. But since the crocc isnt an ace anymore and pure anti inf (and necessary as soon as axis get tanks with tiger/panther canons).... idk how many CP each church atm has. Its just a suggestion.

For RE it would really make sense having vet 1 unlock for priest or priest and 25 pdrs.

[Wake]

The problem I see with RE is that -

Churchills used to be terrible, and RE along with it, since Churchills had terrible armor, terrible guns, and were slow. Then the patch was released increasing their armor and for a time, people tried using old tactics against them like Panzer IVs and AT squads, which no longer worked. So people thought RE was now a good doc. But then, people started figuring out that anything bigger than a panzershreck or Panzer IV gun will easily destroy a churchill. A Jagdpanzer 70 or Panther easily penetrates them, and the 88 goes through like paper.

RE is only good on small maps that you can end quickly before the axis get those weapons. If all they have is panzershrecks and PaK 40s, you will win. But once they get bigger guns, that's it, Churchills are no longer effective. The only thing you can now do is start spamming emplacements.

[Warhawks97]

The problem I see with RE is that -

Churchills used to be terrible, and RE along with it, since Churchills had terrible armor, terrible guns, and were slow. Then the patch was released increasing their armor and for a time, people tried using old tactics against them like Panzer IVs and AT squads, which no longer worked. So people thought RE was now a good doc. But then, people started figuring out that anything bigger than a panzershreck or Panzer IV gun will easily destroy a churchill. A Jagdpanzer 70 or Panther easily penetrates them, and the 88 goes through like paper.

and these guns should be good against them. The flame church is also able to bounce most panther and tiger shells.

RE is only good on small maps that you can end quickly before the axis get those weapons. If all they have is panzershrecks and PaK 40s, you will win. But once they get bigger guns, that's it, Churchills are no longer effective. The only thing you can now do is start spamming emplacements.

yes. The early churchills should come early. At that stage only TH doc is able to get out panther gun. Others have to use schrecks and faust first.


Later you get the MK VII with flamer that bounces everything but the largest 88 L/71 used by just a few units.

But the issue is not the churchills. They do the job so far. Overpriced (completely overpriced) sappers, slight overpriced and stuff. Pretty much what sukin said about RE already.

[JimQwilleran]

But the issue is not the churchills. They do the job so far. Overpriced (completely overpriced) sappers, slight overpriced and stuff. Pretty much what sukin said about RE already.

Do u think that RE could get an engineer squad like Armor doc? I think that British units have always been overpriced because this is Brits philosophy of playing. I guess that with the recent rework the RE doc is quite nice.

[Wake]

On the subject of RE, in comparison to the upcoming price drop of Luft pioneers, and the previous price drop of the RAF commandos, maybe one thing that we can do to improve RE is to also reduce the price of their engineers.

They get a glider just like RAF, but actually pay 560 MP for something that is much worse. The RAF glider used to cost 560 MP but was reduced to 525 MP a few patches ago. The RAF glider can heal units, build squads that can't be built anywhere else, and comes with deadly commandos inside. The RE glider can only reinforce, and it comes with royal engineers that are nowhere near as effective in combat as commandos.

I see the purpose of the RE glider being to either deploy quickly right next to your tanks for immediate critical repairs, or to drop in behind a bunker or MG nest and throw satchels. However, this still doesn't totally justify the relatively high cost.

How about reducing the price of the glider to 475 MP, and the price of the royal engineers to 400 MP. They aren't that effective in combat since they don't have much health, but their real purpose seems to be as combat or assault engineers, getting close to enemy bunkers and throwing explosives or using the flamethrower.

Right now, the royal engineer squad is a little bit too expensive (and thus risky) for players to keep them near the front line, and they just keep them safe in the rear to repair things. Basically, they are like U.S. Combat engineers from infantry doc, except they get worse guns but do have the ability to over repair. Combat engineers cost 315 MP, and Luft pioneers will cost 380 MP, so use that as a reference.

[JimQwilleran]

How about reducing the price of the glider to 475 MP, and the price of the royal engineers to 400 MP. They aren't that effective in combat since they don't have much health, but their real purpose seems to be as combat or assault engineers, getting close to enemy bunkers and throwing explosives or using the flamethrower.

Right now, the royal engineer squad is a little bit too expensive (and thus risky) for players to keep them near the front line, and they just keep them safe in the rear to repair things. Basically, they are like U.S. Combat engineers from infantry doc, except they get worse guns but do have the ability to over repair. Combat engineers cost 315 MP, and Luft pioneers will cost 380 MP, so use that as a reference.

I agree, that seems to be a nice solution. Also, if we speak about RE, has anybody got interested in "repairing bren carrier"? What are it's stats actually? I have never seen anybody using it to be honest.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I have once said that I would never pass 1600 posts here.. but surprisingly this fake Xalibur somehow forced me to type something while participating once again therefore.

So, I have probably decided to continue posting in someways after that... Yet; perhaps not as active as anytime before in the past.

Anyway.. speaking of RE; I wonder if anyone there has ever tried to do maybe a 1vs1 against that doc recently on the current release (493) with some good opponents? I definitely know that 1v1s aren't really balanced, but that's exactly what I am asking about!
RE doc used to be (on the older versions) not a threat anyhow in 1vs1s! Specifically as long as the WH player is doing it all on the right way, however that here on this game which I have yesterday uploaded myself.. I have struggled too hard to be honest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PsRYnSOPlY

That's why I think this video is actually worth watching in fact, as I honestly believe that it would be almost a total balance breaking if we would continue nerfing the Axis any further as I am also firmly against weakening the Terror doc at any possible aspect btw...

What if only... Mr.Nobody was Inf doc??!! Just ask yourselves.

This is my opinion, and happy watching!

[Panzer-Lehr-Division]

But the issue is not the churchills. They do the job so far. Overpriced (completely overpriced) sappers, slight overpriced and stuff. Pretty much what sukin said about RE already.

Do u think that RE could get an engineer squad like Armor doc? I think that British units have always been overpriced because this is Brits philosophy of playing. I guess that with the recent rework the RE doc is quite nice.

Not only british has high priced Units. Pe even more..



Edit: Anyways i do not wanna Sound now like an axis fag or so i really like Play Re too But all i see always is writting about Us or Wh or Brits why no one really care for pe?!

[Warhawks97]

Edit: Anyways i do not wanna Sound now like an axis fag or so i really like Play Re too But all i see always is writting about Us or Wh or Brits why no one really care for pe?!

ehm... me? How many posts i already made regarding PE? Lots at least..... I wanted to add a new design for PE being something very special in all aspects, and not just an "CW copy" for axis. But i hadnt success with it really:(

Maybe you get more luck with your attempt:)

[Wake]

Edit: Anyways i do not wanna Sound now like an axis fag or so i really like Play Re too But all i see always is writting about Us or Wh or Brits why no one really care for pe?!

ehm... me? How many posts i already made regarding PE? Lots at least..... I wanted to add a new design for PE being something very special in all aspects, and not just an "CW copy" for axis. But i hadnt success with it really:(

Maybe you get more luck with your attempt:)

I've been agreeing with Warhawks too, PE actually isn't as good at many things as Wehrmacht is. For example, their Schwimmwagen sucks compared to the WH schwimm, the panzergrenadiers are overpriced at 360 MP, their AT squad is less durable than WH panzerjaegers AND they get 1 less panzershreck, their Assault Grenadier heavy infantry costs more than WH Grenadiers but are worse, terror doc stukas are arguably more effective than scorched earth arty, and despite being the "Panzer Elite" they only have 2 good tanks (Panzer IV H/J and Jagdpanther).

[JimQwilleran]

and despite being the "Panzer Elite" they only have 2 good tanks (Panzer IV H/J and Jagdpanther).

Haha, never thought about that xD. But you know that Panzer Elite is a shitty replacement name just not to use "SS" in the game ;D.