MarKr wrote:You say that the numbers at Luft side are OK, but Sukin said few posts above that Luft simply cannot fend off infantry spam...there is a contradiction here and I guess that it is in great deal a matter of individual point of view but still the contradiction is weird.
You making an important mistake. Or even two.
1. Counter spam with spam
- The best and my fav way to counter spam is with a mix of units with average cost and good cost performence ratio. This is why i love BK doc so much. No unit i use (except panther maybe) exceeds the 450 MP production mark. Grens/storms, Tank IV´s, stugs, Puma with 20 mm and 75 mm stubby, Ostwinds. I can get each unit pretty fast in case i need them and each has decent performence though not exceeding the 450 MP mark. So if you going to create a crossfire of volks with lmg, Puma with 20 mm, 50 mm pak and maybe one gren or storm squad you do have a very good "controle" over any incoming masses. You can play a flexible ranged defense that is elastic and that allows to let the enemie run far into your territory being under permanent fire followed by an immediate counterattack.
This is far better as giving simply spam capabilties in order to fight of spam
2. Making a single or two units so strong that they can literally fight off endless masses.
Actually, when the Luft inf is being fielded almost completely with vets and without making pure dump blobb assaults a luft player will more or less never really lose vs pure enemie inf masses. They would and will lose because of a mix of rangers in ambush, snipers, shermans and off map arty strikes. So actually they dont need to become even more stronger. They need a production price that allows a better support of those (eg AA tanks, hetzers, snipers, mortar, paks).
Also you want to lower the costs of Luft infantry at the expense of removing their weapons...so you will have cheaper drop, but to get them to the performance level they have now, you will need to spend a lot of ammo and still, if I get it right, you won't be able to give them full FG42 loadout (4 max, right?). Basically they would become 100MP cheaper but 150 Ammo more expensive if you want to have them as effective as they are now and in case you need ammo elsewhere or you are simply short on ammo for some reason, you won't even get them the weapons they have now.
If they get cheaper they would be backed with more support. Just as sample the halfed cost of the Luft pios+ the 100 MP less for reg 5 and gebirgs enables the luft player to get other units earlier and more. More effective back up by 88´s that would be easier maintained, 20 mm flaks (which would be buffed vs vehicles) and hetzers. So they might not require their total loadout anymore.
I am using the experience of inf doc here. If i have few units i do give more weapons to a single squad. Usually BAR+rifle nade or thompson/zook or lmg/zook.
In late game when i am getting more i often dont give upgrades to some squads or only a single one. Like only 2x3 thompson, only a zook, only an lmg, only rifle nade. The ammo i do save here is being then spend into off map arty support, shermans and HE rounds, M10 with AP rounds and so on.
So although each squad is barely equiped then or using only standard rifles their support is becoming better and so the overall strenght of my army. The more units you get, the less powerfull a single one need to be. With PE i am doing same sometimes. I never fully equip my SS squad. They only get two LMG´s and thats it. They only fight from distance.
With volks i give either only lmg or only MP40 and each squad has a purpose then. Grens sometimes as well. Two squads with stg (and maybe schreck), only with lmg.
And imagine now these two squads. 450 MP gebirgs call in that have G43 unscoped G43 and one lmg 34 or 42 as default weapon and 2-4 scopped G43 available.
The Reg 5 with MP 40 (like being the counterpart to 82nd or sten commandos) for 450 MP. The ammount of upgrades would then depend how much the player will focus on that squad (should they just kill some AT guns and emplacments and their job is done? or long termed use?).
So by making these changes Luftwaffe could get more units, more different. They wouldnt send masses of elites as spam to counter masses of cheap basic inf. They would rather fight as real elite forces or elite armies would do.
At the end the doc would be a mix of many things. A little bit of BK style with close range assault squads with anti emplacment abilities and weapons (like stormtroopers), ranged elite combat unit (Gebirgs would fill the role of the BK suppression squad or being comparable at least just with more abilties like the faust vs tanks). The cheap luft pios with advanced repairs at default would be similiar to dev doc pios and maintaining and building defenses.
The Hetzer tank and panther would also provide lots of mobile and powerfull anti tank power, in defense as well as in offense.
So the doc would be extremely unique. The playstyle would be a mix of BK doc stormtroopers just not exactly specialized as those with mobile retreat halftrack, def doc with 88 guns and 20 mm flaks just not exactly specialized as those and partly Tankhunter doc with hetzer but also assault doc like the BK doc.
In addition to that air support. And this mix and this high adaptability is what makes this doc so extremly dangerous at the end. There wouldnt be even a need to be fully capable of doing airborne operations in the scale AB doc can do.
And finally, when you spare 200 MP for two reg 5 squads, 160 MP for a single pio squad and the 220 or 240 MP for the advanced repair upgrade you already spared 600 MP in total which is the cost of an entire emplaced 88 or 1 1/2 of an naked 88. That means that the VT support could finally become a lot more usefull, especially on long term when two pio squads spared already the cost of an other 88.
And this is how i see the new Luft doc. An overhaul by very simple changes of cost and weapon upgrades, not more.
And if you would add to this the PE starting 5 men squad for cheaper cost (after upgrade normal 6 men squad for the build cost of a 5 men squad; eg heavy assault squad approx 375-380 MP with 5 men at first, later 6) you would save a shitmount of res for every unit you build which then is also supporting the Luftwaffe infantry.
Just try to see that full picture and the new possibilites players would get. And these possibilties would not just exist in theory (like the doc simply has that and that stuff) but also effectively since the cost of units are not skyhigh.
