UNBALANCE 60MM MORTAR WHEN GONNA FIX THIS UNIT?

[Krieger Blitzer]

To where u think we r going with such a discussion of which is personally around me purely now?
Those exactly are whom of what I meant they should be really colored in black.. no comment except just saying... 'What an ass!' Srsly.

[Armacalic]

To where u think we r going with such a discussion of which is personally around me purely now?
Those exactly are whom of what I meant they should be really colored in black.. no comment except just saying... 'What an ass!' Srsly.

I'll just remind you, I'm playing by the rules you've set, or has anyone forgotten the M26 Pershing thread? Didn't think so. Have fun Tiger, lets work hard on the next act too.

[Warhawks97]

another thread you derail

yeah,

but back to topic.

The topic btw has ended already since MarKr clearly said that he will hint Wolf about it! And my first comments here were obviously regarding the main subject though So... X_X

How you know? Maybe some people comming arround just all few days and havent seen this one yet? A topic is closed when a forum admin closes a thread.

So try to not write more non-topic relatet stuff or people might stop reading at the first half of page 1 while at page 2 or 3 or 10 might come more interesting posts that are related to the issue.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I didn't say the topic is "closed" now, I only said I think the real discussion has "ended" anyways... The jokes apparently were going all the way good.. but since when 'joking' for sometime at some point would derail a topic anyhow?! What truly derails it is how he suddenly managed from nowhere as always to spoil his shit out on me while switching off the overall fun atmosphere; as he even didn't participate in the topic since anytime before it.

[Devilfish]

Nobody really cares about 60mm mortar, since everybody is used to it and it isn't really game breaking.

But when the topic is up.....

In my opinion, 60mm mortar kinda sucks because it has no real advantages for being lighter than its counterparts. Cheaper? Comes earlier? Useless, considering its effectiveness.
It is lighter, so it has smaller range, less damage (less explosives), makes sense, but.....does squad move faster? No. Does squad have the sprint ability? No. Can squad deploy and pack it up much quicker? No.

So 81mm can out-range it and out-damage, with no real downside. That's why it is rarely used (except smoke purposes).

Make it setup in like 1-2 secs and add sprint ability and wait for players' rage xD.

[Eldrak1911]

I agree for the 1-2 sec deployement, but... A sprint ability ? Realy ? It had a weight of around 19kg... I'd prefer a cammo ability, like the british 2inch mortar. Or a sprint, but a short one.

[Devilfish]

I agree for the 1-2 sec deployement, but... A sprint ability ? Realy ? It had a weight of around 19kg... I'd prefer a cammo ability, like the british 2inch mortar. Or a sprint, but a short one.

Well, according to wiki, panzerschreck weights 11kg and guys are sprinting like mustangs with it, but quick deployment would suffice .

[Redgaarden]

Could there be done something about them dying by small arms fire when they dont hide behinde sightblockers.
Just something so they could survive an open field.
Would love to hear your suggestions, or am I the only one with this problem?

[Krieger Blitzer]

Could there be done something about them dying by small arms fire when they dont hide behinde sightblockers.

What exactly u mean?!

[kwok]

This is all talk as if you were using mortar to counter mortar. Rather than thinking of it as a counter, why not think of it as a tool? If you're afraid of being barraged, then just relocate. Going in, out, and around of the ranges is a skill to learn rather than just setting up in the same spot over and over again expecting to NOT get hit. I think the mortar does exactly what it was intended to do: longer than small arms ranged damage. It does exactly that. In terms of its advantages over it's larger counterpart, I think those are wonderful advantages. Being able to pay for a tool cheaper and earlier is nice. If I had the mindset that I'm paying for a counter, then yeah I'd think it's BS because it doesn't counter as effectively. But, a mortar has a lot of utility because it doesn't lose its effectiveness if it's relocated unlike a lot of other units. Its performance is nearly position-neutral. I use it plenty of times not just for smoke. In fact, I normally buy them 2 at a time the same way people buy 2 snipers at a time. I wouldn't mind buffs, but I really don't find a need for them as I have no complaints about them.

[Eldrak1911]

I don't like the sprint of the panzerjäger and other one who carried heavy things like this, if it could be done, i wish they were unable to sprint ^^

I think he means that mortar theam are really weak for anythings else than spamming a zone. Like surviving a gunfight with any other if not behind a realy heavy cover ^^ Seems logic for me. You're not in cover > you're an easy target > you're dead ^^ (If only it could be the same for german x) )

[MarKr]

Make it setup in like 1-2 secs

I was actually thinking this way too but apply it specifically to all mortar classes. 60mm/2inch setup time 1 second

80mm the curent 2.4 seconds (or somewhere around that)

120mm/4.2inch 5 seconds

That would make the small mortars easier to relocate/ pack up and retreat.

Sprint probably no...seems off for such a unit.

The camo when in cover for 60mm doesn't sound that bad...

[Eldrak1911]

An other thing, that goes with every mortar except the 120mm one : They're dying immediatly when there is only one men left in the team.

1 - Why ?
2 - Is it technicaly possible to fix it ?
3 - If not, could it be possible to make the 120mm one dying when only one men is in the team ?
4 - No more question your honnor.

[MarKr]

1) probably because it was that way in vCoH. Maybe also because these weapons were usually carried in dismantled form by several soldiers so this prevents one dude walking around with a heavy mortar on his shoulder without any visible squad mates to "cary the other parts". IDK, hard to say.

2) Technically probably yes.

3) It would be probably possible.

[Eldrak1911]

If it's not too much asking, could it be add on your to do list ^^ ? The number 3, obviously.

Thanks your honnor !

[Warhawks97]

Nobody really cares about 60mm mortar, since everybody is used to it and it isn't really game breaking.

But when the topic is up.....

In my opinion, 60mm mortar kinda sucks because it has no real advantages for being lighter than its counterparts. Cheaper? Comes earlier? Useless, considering its effectiveness.
It is lighter, so it has smaller range, less damage (less explosives), makes sense, but.....does squad move faster? No. Does squad have the sprint ability? No. Can squad deploy and pack it up much quicker? No.

So 81mm can out-range it and out-damage, with no real downside. That's why it is rarely used (except smoke purposes).

Make it setup in like 1-2 secs and add sprint ability and wait for players' rage xD.

as i said, faster set up and dismanteling time so that it could move faster and reacting faster on friendly and enemie movment to provide effective support where it is needed. But no sprint ability.


OK.

1. Faster build time (atm feels like endless long)
2. Faster set up and dismanteling.
3. Available for inf doc. 80 mm does not replace the 60 mm in inf doc. Inf doc is simply able to build both versions.

[Eldrak1911]

Yepee !

[Warhawks97]

This is all talk as if you were using mortar to counter mortar. Rather than thinking of it as a counter, why not think of it as a tool? If you're afraid of being barraged, then just relocate. Going in, out, and around of the ranges is a skill to learn rather than just setting up in the same spot over and over again expecting to NOT get hit. I think the mortar does exactly what it was intended to do: longer than small arms ranged damage. It does exactly that. In terms of its advantages over it's larger counterpart, I think those are wonderful advantages. Being able to pay for a tool cheaper and earlier is nice. If I had the mindset that I'm paying for a counter, then yeah I'd think it's BS because it doesn't counter as effectively. But, a mortar has a lot of utility because it doesn't lose its effectiveness if it's relocated unlike a lot of other units. Its performance is nearly position-neutral. I use it plenty of times not just for smoke. In fact, I normally buy them 2 at a time the same way people buy 2 snipers at a time. I wouldn't mind buffs, but I really don't find a need for them as I have no complaints about them.

Ehm... Yeah? what you think i tried to do? I doubt that anyone is so foolish trying to counter a 81 mm with 60 mm. Thing is, once a 81 is fielded, you cant fire anymore because once you set up you must relocate immediatly again and you have no mobility or flexibility advantage over heavier mortar. And the gain is very low. Even if you dont need to move you need like two barrages to kill one HMG (no joke, tried many times in games) because the AoE and damage is poor (almost not existing i would say compared to other "sniper" mortars).
And in a open field you cant use it. The guys with the rifles can fire back.

1) probably because it was that way in vCoH. Maybe also because these weapons were usually carried in dismantled form by several soldiers so this prevents one dude walking around with a heavy mortar on his shoulder without any visible squad mates to "cary the other parts". IDK, hard to say.

The 120 mm can walk arround with 1 men. Mortar is gone and the mortar itself is then reinforced. So if i saw it correctly you reinforce first the crew and the last reinforced "member" is the mortar itself. Once the US 37 mm pak did behave like that as well. When gun was destroyed or the other two guys dead then the last could walk back to base. There you reinforced 2 member and the pak itself.




Ambush when in cover.... hmmm, why not?


So yeah, the advantages over a 81 or 80 mm could be:

1. Faster set up and dismantle
2. Ambush in cover possible
3. short round traveling time.

Additionally the build time could be really lower (idk, 25-30 seconds?) and available for inf doc as well.

Everything else would simply stay (range, damage, aoe, cost)

[jonnyyankee]

i agreed with warhawk but i have other suggest why better Engineers make Mortars emplacements of 60mm like CW???

[SteamID_razelazz]

i agreed with warhawk but i have other suggest why better Engineers make Mortars emplacements of 60mm like CW???

Because 60mm mortars emplacements would still have the same range and damage as the support units. WH 81mm mortars and PE incendiary rounds would be able to kill them much easier since now they can't move, either to get away or get into range.

[Eldrak1911]

Hem, cw emplacement mortar are not 60mm ones, they're 75mm.

[jonnyyankee]

Then lets go to put more range and more damage for the emplacements and its solved

[Warhawks97]

wait, US shall get a mortar pit like CW? no way. That doesnt fit into US style. The CW one is good as it is with damage and accuracy and range. The calibre is iirc 76 mm or so.


But no 60 mm mortar Pit to US.

[Devilfish]

Hem, cw emplacement mortar are not 60mm ones, they're 75mm.

The calibre is iirc 76 mm or so

Actually...

The Ordnance ML 3-inch mortar was the United Kingdom's standard mortar used by the British Army from the early 1930s to the late 1960s, superseding the Stokes mortar[1] Although called the '3-inch mortar' by the British Army, its calibre was actually 3.209 in (81.5 mm)

[Krieger Blitzer]

wait, US shall get a mortar pit like CW? no way. That doesnt fit into US style. The CW one is good as it is with damage and accuracy and range. The calibre is iirc 76 mm or so.


But no 60 mm mortar Pit to US.

Agreed.

Hem, cw emplacement mortar are not 60mm ones, they're 75mm.

The calibre is iirc 76 mm or so

Actually...

The Ordnance ML 3-inch mortar was the United Kingdom's standard mortar used by the British Army from the early 1930s to the late 1960s, superseding the Stokes mortar[1] Although called the '3-inch mortar' by the British Army, its calibre was actually 3.209 in (81.5 mm)

The CW mortar pits in Bk are brutal enough anyways...