What is missing? 4950!

[Panzer-Lehr-Division]

Btw, The berge tiger is just dumb now. Cmon man it is the only unit having a crane.. 2 engineers of tank doc can repair faster then one berge even if the berge is a hard unit to use, it Need much micro Need to be set for some repiars... (idk if it is a bug or supposed) Is mostly the target of any tank and yea. so i had use 2 berge for fast rep? Give it ist old repiar stats back, atleast as nerf let it not repiar any Emplacements or just let it appear in tankhunter doc..

Edit: It also cost much more then any repiaring unit!

[Butterkeks]

But the bergetiger is a heavy armored repair unit.
A normal pio squad can easily be wiped out by any tank or inf, especially when they are repairing (they get more damage when they do so).

The Bergetiger can only be killed with tanks or AT guns, or handheld AT. Zookas will nearly always bounce (normal Tiger armor), and you need a least a 76mm or a 17pdr to kill it.
I'm not sure which tanks can kill it, but for example the M8, Crusader, Staghound etc are not capable of doing it.
Also arty needs several hits.

So it repairs slower and is more expensive, but therefore way harder to kill.
I think it's fair.

[MarKr]

Bergetieger again? Oh boy...it repairs faster than any other PE unit (even after PE troops get repair upgrade), it can gain resources from wrecks (we're talking about substatial ammount of ammunition here) and it has the smoke shell ability which creates a smoke cloud around it (covering also the vehicle it repairs), infantry cannot damage it unless they have zookas and even then the effectivity is not very good and anything weaker than 76mm has low-to-none chance of penetration.

It is fine as it is.

[Panzer-Lehr-Division]

Still allie engineers Need only 2 to have faster repair then this:) Yes it is a heavy but a Primary target for everyone also!
It was just a try anyway

[MarKr]

Still allie engineers Need only 2 to have faster repair then this:)

And those are much more fragile - single mortar shell can kill them. They cannot scavenge resources from wrecks, cannot use smoke to protect themselves from incoming fire...

[Krieger Blitzer]

It's more regarding adjustment, and not about buffing or even nerfing on the other hand!

As I would really like to see the BergeTiger only available for the TH doc being capable of repairing just tanks with a repair speed rate of 20 perhaps.. this would simply fit much more than what is represented currently... However that it's not a 'demand' though.

[Warhawks97]

agree. Maybe the Bergetiger could become really a rare recovery vehicle that is purely in game to "recover" (repair tanks) quickly. But therefore only tanks (and nothing else).

[Krieger Blitzer]

Medic stations are actually healing all the nearby 'tanks'...

[Panzer-Lehr-Division]

Lol yea i noticed it and told it tiger ton of time that there is somethink wierd, first i seen it was when i was pe i had hq upgrade and then a light vehicle repiared it self O-o and yesterday with brits i was with Achilles nearby a healing Station and it healed up slowly it self lol

[Krieger Blitzer]

Let me add this to the point number 10:-
-SE Nashorn price to be reduced from 580MP/80F to 560MP/75F just like the TH one even before the mass production is unlocked.

Edit;

The JP is missing the hold fire ability when in ambush btw!

[Panzer-Lehr-Division]

Edit;

The JP is missing the hold fire ability when in ambush btw!

Yep some annoying sh*.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Abilities adjustment...

# Panther (all versions):-
Flank Speed ability; to be added on Vet lvl 1, 2 or maybe even 3.

-Just like the Comets, as it would fit a lot so much more to see it finally added for 'Panthers' instead of 'Tigers' currently!
And surely anyways better than to ask for the Accurate Long Shot to them as well...

# JP;
Veteran Shot ability; range increase from 60 to 100.

-This ability costs 100 ammo as well as it's already requiring Vet lvl 3 also!!

# Tiger (all versions):-
Accurate Long Shot ability; from Vet lvl 2 to Vet lvl 1.
Flank speed ability; total remove.

# KT (both versions);
Accurate Long Shot ability; from Vet lvl 3 to Vet lvl 2.
Sniper Mode ability; from Vet lvl 2 to Vet lvl 3.

# Pershing (both versions);
Rapid Shots ability; from Vet lvl 2 to Vet lvl 1.

# Croc Churchill;
Flamethrower Tread Breaker ability; total remove.

[Warhawks97]

JP: I could agree with that. But keep in mind that (at least discription says it) it oneshots the target. But i could be ok with that.

KT: why so? The KT has good standard range and new buffed armor. It only has to fear arty and Air raids so far (and SP).

Tiger: Remove flank speed. Instead add the S mine launcher ability for Terror tiger. That could help him to defend themselfs against sticky bombs and gomman bombs. It could share the same cooldown with the smoke barrage ability since both are fired out from the smoke launchers.

Crocc: agreed.

Something to add from my side:

Drop Heavy assault gren squad from 435 to 400 MP (reinforce cost are ok, but the build cost are high since it is the actual late game standard inf from PE). Also maybe one STG in squad at default?
Drop Pgren squad from 360 to 340. As PE i prefer to build up base simply as i fear to lose build squad which would cost me 360 MP again. Reinforce cost are fine atm.


As PE its quite hard to get a combined force. A inf squad and hetzer cost already more than 800 MP. So a build cost drop for PE inf would be nice. Besides that they even seem to be weaker than WE grens, lmao.

One option would still be to reduce Pgren squad size to 5 men at the beginning. That way The Heavvy assault squad could drop to 365 MP and the normal Pgren squad could go down to 300 MP. That would increase flexibility but also would make a way easier for PE to create a combined force what atm is really the hardest thing to do with PE. In early game its ok but in mid game (when like 1-2 units got lost) you then stuck with very few units and combined forces hardly exist.

In order to compete then in late game the squad could be upgraded to 6 men via that upgrade. Then PE would get 6 men heavy assault squads for 365 MP while allied can have appropriate counter at that time. The upgrade to 6 men would be either avaiable as it is know. I would suggest either after logistic company upgrade or when TH support command is up (i would favour logistic company upgrade since it can be upgraded early atm which would cause instantly 6 men spawns for 365 MP).


Drop Sten commandos from 450 to 435 MP build cost.
Drop CW combat sappers to 400 MP.
Drop 101st AB to 400 MP drop cost.
Drop Luft inf reg 5 to 500 MP drop cost.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Personally I don't agree with adding the S-mine for Terror Tigers too, as that's a unique ability of the Ace version only...


But anyways now regarding this inf units MP cost reductions crusade.. I am also really unsure to be honest!

[Warhawks97]

Personally I don't agree with adding the S-mine for Terror Tigers too, as that's a unique ability of the Ace version only...


But anyways now regarding this inf units MP cost reductions crusade.. I am also really unsure to be honest!

The PE feels weak in the later game. The problem is that in the early game res for PE arent a big problem. I even think PE is best early game faction. But later it becomes very hard to fight with combined forces. Also Flexibility is lacking.


I think PE in general should be:

1. Quality. That means each solider/squad tank/vehicle should have a high combat value. That means high cost as it as atm but it hurts to play it effectively aggressive without plain blobbing as it is hard to get a well rounded offensive force with different unit types involved.
2. Speedfull and deadly offense.
3. Powerfull offense due to a well rounded offensive force with lots of tactical combination options. Not plain blobbing.
4. Not that good in attrition wars. That can be achieved by maintaining the current reinforce cost of units and tank cost.

Goals can be achieved:

Starting with smaller squad size in early game could drop the cost by maintaining a high combat value for every single soldier. That would prevent a too early deployment in too large numbers of strong soliders. The assault squad is deployable right from start and stgs available instantly. At the same time PE would be able to field combined forces more effectively in late game.


So to clearify the suggestion on PE and the advantages of it.


Drop squad size of Pgrens, Heavy assault squad and stormpioneers down to 5 men at start.

Build cost:

Pgren squad: 315 MP (currently 360)
Heavy Pgren squad: 375 MP (Currently 435)
Stormpioneers: 325 MP (Currently 390)


The Increased Squad Size upgrade would be available as soon as the Logistic company is up. The squad size would then be 6 men but build cost unchanged.


Advantage:
1. The builder unit wouldnt be so costly to replace in case it would die. That causes a huge drawback for PE when the squad dies in early game before all base buildings has been build.
2. The PE would gain a boost for the late game with increased flexibility and tactical options which are more important than a single expensive 7 men squad that still cant do shit against tanks by its own.
3. Better use of combined force with assault units and supporting units.


I dont think that a 5 men squad would hurt the early balance for some reason:
1. PE opening is good. Nice mix of early vehicles, paks, mortar HT (snipers), AT squads etc.
2. More squads can be deployed for better flanking attacks etc.
3. The logistic company upgrade is quickly upgraded and squad size increase isnt that expensive. PE would then field powerfull inf in normal squad size while squad production cost are cheapest so far (only inf doc could build inf cheaper but first later).


The Sapper squad down simply as everything is costly to replace with CW. There is nothing below 300 MP (only boys AT and 6 pdr) and CW relies on these expensive sapper squads. They dont have base repair stations like other factions. So i think a cost of 400 for the combat sappers is ok. Most of the time CW player asking arround US players for repairs as they often dont get the required number of repair options to maintain an armored force.

S mines for Tiger to defend themselfs against sticky and commandos makes more sense than flank speed which turns that tank more or less into a fast tank hunter. The biggest threat for Terror Tigers is infantry and esspecially commandos with gammon bombs.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I would then rather just adding a similar suppression ability as that of JPs after the TH veterancy training unlock to the Terror Tigers on Vet lvl 1 instead of ur S-mine idea.. as I believe it should remain being exclusive only for the Ace! That would fit much better I think... The Panther D as well as more tanks could later recieve it too.

About ur ideas regarding such huge inf MP cost reductions; I could only agree on the following units:- FJs, SaS, AB leader squad, AB 82nd squads, and the PE HQ PzGrens.
Each should be costing 50MP less excepting the PzGrens as it has to be only 20 MP cheaper!

However that anyways btw.. I have been recently informed that this patch won't be anytime until the end of the tournament.. therefore and because of that I am going to be very busy during these upcoming months which is the main reason of why I am actually not participating in this exciting tourney, I would be then kindly asking Wolf soon to delay the patch maybe even to the next January or so for some related reasons...

[Warhawks97]

For PE i would say we could make two ways of reducing inf build cost. Simple reduction (-20 and -35 MP) or the way i suggested. First 5 men squads being quite cheap (like 375 for heavvy assault squad) and right from start available, later (mid game or sooner possible when player saves fuel up) they would have normal 6 men squads while the cost would stay so low. It would turn PE generally into a lot more aggressive late game faction with more units, but not made for attrition fighting.

The other inf (Reg 5, 82, 101st, combat sappers, sten commandos) could drop simply in build cost (not reinforce). 15 (101st) till 50 mp (reg 5, combat sappers) less.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Due to the firing sound bugs of the special Luft doc Pioneers... What about removing both the leader's MP44 and the MP40 upgrades too, as they would be then having just Kars.. while also reducing their price from 420MP to 350MP as well on the other hand?!

[Warhawks97]

Due to the firing sound bugs of the special Luft doc Pioneers... What about removing both the leader's MP44 and the MP40 upgrades too, as they would be then having just Kars.. while also reducing their price from 420MP to 350MP as well on the other hand?!

350. idk. AB drops their for 320 and need FHQ first. And what bugs?

[Krieger Blitzer]

350MP was perhaps a huge cost reduction, maybe 380MP is fair enough... As I remember also Sukin once said that building an 88 as Luft doc would always cost so much more than as Def doc because of such a too expensive weak Luft Pioneer squad.. and he is truly right I believe! Plus that their real purpose anyways is not fighting but just constructing as u would so rarely need them mainly to fight anyone.

Additionally; their MP44 firing sound actually is always mixed with an FG42 that is not existing anywhere!! That's why now I am suggesting.. no need for the MP44 neither the MP40s upgrade even as well, so only Kars and a price drop then

[MarKr]

Due to the firing sound bugs of the special Luft doc Pioneers... What about removing both the leader's MP44 and the MP40 upgrades too, as they would be then having just Kars.. while also reducing their price from 420MP to 350MP as well on the other hand?!

So...your reason for changing a unit price and weapon loadout and possible weapon upgrade is that the weapon plays a different sound? So many changes just because of something that doesn't really impact the gameplay in any way?

[Krieger Blitzer]

No.. that's the main reason;

As I remember also Sukin once said that building an 88 as Luft doc would always cost so much more than as Def doc because of such a too expensive weak Luft Pioneer squad.. and he is truly right I believe! Plus that their real purpose anyways is not fighting but just constructing as u would so rarely need them mainly to fight anyone.

I am just hitting\hunting 2 birds using the same rock, a single one...

Avoiding a bug (1st bird) as well as improving the balance (2nd bird) all to be done in an only one slight change such as this (the rock)!

[Panzer-Lehr-Division]

Personally I don't agree with adding the S-mine for Terror Tigers too, as that's a unique ability of the Ace version only...


But anyways now regarding this inf units MP cost reductions crusade.. I am also really unsure to be honest!

The PE feels weak in the later game. The problem is that in the early game res for PE arent a big problem. I even think PE is best early game faction. But later it becomes very hard to fight with combined forces. Also Flexibility is lacking.


I think PE in general should be:

1. Quality. That means each solider/squad tank/vehicle should have a high combat value. That means high cost as it as atm but it hurts to play it effectively aggressive without plain blobbing as it is hard to get a well rounded offensive force with different unit types involved.
2. Speedfull and deadly offense.
3. Powerfull offense due to a well rounded offensive force with lots of tactical combination options. Not plain blobbing.
4. Not that good in attrition wars. That can be achieved by maintaining the current reinforce cost of units and tank cost.

Goals can be achieved:

Starting with smaller squad size in early game could drop the cost by maintaining a high combat value for every single soldier. That would prevent a too early deployment in too large numbers of strong soliders. The assault squad is deployable right from start and stgs available instantly. At the same time PE would be able to field combined forces more effectively in late game.


So to clearify the suggestion on PE and the advantages of it.


Drop squad size of Pgrens, Heavy assault squad and stormpioneers down to 5 men at start.

Build cost:

Pgren squad: 315 MP (currently 360)
Heavy Pgren squad: 375 MP (Currently 435)
Stormpioneers: 325 MP (Currently 390)


The Increased Squad Size upgrade would be available as soon as the Logistic company is up. The squad size would then be 6 men but build cost unchanged.


Advantage:
1. The builder unit wouldnt be so costly to replace in case it would die. That causes a huge drawback for PE when the squad dies in early game before all base buildings has been build.
2. The PE would gain a boost for the late game with increased flexibility and tactical options which are more important than a single expensive 7 men squad that still cant do shit against tanks by its own.
3. Better use of combined force with assault units and supporting units.


I dont think that a 5 men squad would hurt the early balance for some reason:
1. PE opening is good. Nice mix of early vehicles, paks, mortar HT (snipers), AT squads etc.
2. More squads can be deployed for better flanking attacks etc.
3. The logistic company upgrade is quickly upgraded and squad size increase isnt that expensive. PE would then field powerfull inf in normal squad size while squad production cost are cheapest so far (only inf doc could build inf cheaper but first later).


The Sapper squad down simply as everything is costly to replace with CW. There is nothing below 300 MP (only boys AT and 6 pdr) and CW relies on these expensive sapper squads. They dont have base repair stations like other factions. So i think a cost of 400 for the combat sappers is ok. Most of the time CW player asking arround US players for repairs as they often dont get the required number of repair options to maintain an armored force.

S mines for Tiger to defend themselfs against sticky and commandos makes more sense than flank speed which turns that tank more or less into a fast tank hunter. The biggest threat for Terror Tigers is infantry and esspecially commandos with gammon bombs.

I do not agree sorry, i has no Problem late game, Also not in medium game or start game... Just vs ranger blobbers a bit when not also blobbing:p So please no Squad reduce,Increase or whatever All is fine. American easily can go at spamm and sniper. thats good vs pe as Kommodore did, he only did at and sniper and some rifle and it was very good. But warhawk If you having Problems pushing enemy late game thats a big Problem lol

[Krieger Blitzer]

Yup, honestly I would also never encourage on such a huge MP cost reduction crusades of all these inf units.. as I already mentioned regarding only some specific ones to probably become just slightly cheaper WITHOUT reducing the number of any squad members for sure!

[Warhawks97]

Well, you would still have normal 6 men squad sizes, just no more 7 men squads. But in return you would pay just arround 375-380 MP for a 6 men heavy assault squad later instead of 435.

But anyway. I was just thinking arround how to make PE a way more flexible in late game with easier use of combined forces.