What is missing? 4950!

[Krieger Blitzer]

This is probably a similar thread to that huge one I published before, which is the "Inspiring for Perfection!" topic of the 490 patch.
But this time it's a lot so much smaller.. as that the mod is already too close hopefully into being really perfect...

Priorities are only given to estimate how much important is each point! Absolutely no any kind of dramatic changes are intended.
It might be also worth to mention that I have actually prepared most of the high priority points with Hawks

So here we go;
******Highest priority****** (MarKr already answered this one through PMs btw)
1-Actually the Accurate Long Range Shot ability needs a hot-fix.
MarKr already knows about the problem btw but I will list it down shortly here ONLY for everyone to be informed as there are 2 certain issues with it;
That u can't cancel the ability command anymore, therefore.. u would lose the ammo cost instantly if the tank didn't shoot 'for any reason' the marked target.
As it will also randomly select another target to hit by even running after it in order, if the main selected target at anytime has suddenly become out of the range or behind any obstacle!!

*****Higher priority*****
2-After buffing or improving the 76s against mediums, it's now a must to delay the Jumbo by just swapping it with the Calliope. As that the Calliope new price should be 650MP and the Jumbo new cost would be 750MP on the other hand!

*****Higher priority*****
3-'Hold position' abilities are still bugged with some units as it prevents them to retreat whenever requested while this ability is activated.

*****Higher priority*****
4-Tiger Ace should be able to use the Accurate Long Range Shot ability on Vet lvl 1 as well as all the other Tigers too, on the other hand the Pershing Ace should be able to use the Rapid Shots ability on Vet lvl 1.. and the same to be applied also for normal Pershings.
Tiger's flank speed ability should be delayed to Vet lvl 3...

****High priority****
5-A 200popcap mode, who would ever object on adding anymore kind of gaming types anyways?!
Maybe just as a replacement for the 150popcap mode or the 250popcap one by just converting any of them.

****High priority****
6-Achilles DF ability is still delaying. I think MarKr forgot to adjust it for this tank unlike the rest... Plus that it's auto targeting enemy tanks even in ambush mode.

****High priority****
7-Both the Leader and the Demo Storm squads (Or at least only the Demo one!!) should be able to crawl without the veterancy training unlock, as they are both already limited to only a single unit at a time btw of which is also consisting of only 4 men.

****High priority****
8-TH doc should receive 150mm Nebels (limited to 1 or just 2), cuz the Hotchkiss is surely not enough as it's actually too lame and very expensive as well. Specifically since that if the Calli for the Armor doc would be earlier available as requested above!

***Standard priority***
9-The DF ability should be fixed for all 88s just like the way how MarKr adjusted it for almost all the tanks (no delay or double shooting bugs) and then it has to be added to the Luft doc ones as they actually don't have it for some unknown reasons! Yet it's useful for sure as it mainly allows u for example to shoot at any obstacles in order to erase them.

***Standard priority***
10-The PE Pz4 F should receive the same cost reduction (-10 fuel) of the Terror Pz4s made on 486 yet.

***Standard priority***
11-CW RA doc spotter should be able to capture points, US AB doc spotters should be able to capture points too and also gain the ability to crawl.

**Low priority**
12-Opel Maultiers rocket barrage ammo price should be decreased to 75.

**Low priority**
13-US 37mm AT gun crews are still immortal, just too tough to die unlike the Axis 37mm AT gun crews.

**Low priority**
14-Only one 120mm Mortar team should be added to the Luft doc as it would be then also limited to just a single 1 for the SE doc too (same of what we did with the SE snipers).

*Lowest priority*
15-Instead of the Panthers Rapid Shots ability, they should have the Accurate Long Range Shot on Vet lvl 2.

That's all from my side!! Yes, just a tiny patch. More likely not more than 10MBs size!
Maybe Wolf has something more to be done as he plans! But for me only these are the most concerns...

[Butterkeks]

Dat Axis buff.

Also funny how most of these things got denied by Wolf and Markr or even the community already, yet Tiger won't stop demanding and posting them, as if there would never have been a discussion about it.

[Krieger Blitzer]

What exactly got denied??!! I didn't prepare this list alone.. if I would have prepared it only by myself, I would have then listed this lowest priority point as the highest one btw...

[MarKr]

What exactly got denied?? I didn't prepare this list alone...

What about numbers 2 and 15? You mentioned accurate long shot for Panther over and over again (like really - 12 times now?) and it has been said every time that Panthers won't get it...Jumbo and Calli won't swap that was also said already. In the topic about Reg.5 I told you that Luft definately doesn't need any more arty and yet again you mention here 120mm mortar for Luft

And Long shot fix for Tigers gets "Highest priority"? You are the only one who complained about it since the patch release

[Krieger Blitzer]

Wolf actually never said it's final that Jumbo won't be swapped with the Calliope! There had been a lot of suggestions regarding this point.. and it was not replied clearly to be honest. It was just neglected...

Wolf only said it's final that Combat Engineers won't be moved to Armor doc, and also that the short barreled Jumbos won't be moved to the Armor doc too.. and as u can see those 2 points aren't mentioned in fact.
Point 14 as well is a low priority one!!

Point 15 has the lowest priority anyways...

Point 1 is a bug though; who uses Tigers excepting me I wonder? I think that's why, as I bet no one discovered the bug even

[Butterkeks]

What exactly got denied??!! I didn't prepare this list alone.. if I would have prepared it only by myself, I would have then listed this lowest priority point as the highest one btw...

What exactly got denied?? I didn't prepare this list alone...

What about numbers 2 and 15? You mentioned accurate long shot for Panther over and over again (like really - 12 times now?) and it has been said every time that Panthers won't get it...Jumbo and Calli won't swap that was also said already. In the topic about Reg.5 I told you that Luft definately doesn't need any more arty and yet again you mention here 120mm mortar for Luft

And Long shot fix for Tigers gets "Highest priority"? You are the only one who complained about it since the patch release

For example these.

****High priority****
5-A 200popcap mode, who would ever object on adding anymore kind of gaming types anyways?!
Maybe just as a replacement for the 150popcap mode or the 250popcap one by just converting any of them.

I couldn't find the topic, but it also was denied. Because why? Why should there be a 200 Popcap mode? And why has it "High Priortiy" and undieable US AT gun is "low priority"? Strange logic.

****High priority****
7-Both the Leader and the Demo Storm squads (Or at least only the Demo one!!) should be able to crawl without the veterancy training unlock, as they are both already limited to only a single unit at a time btw of which is also consisting of only 4 men.

Also got denied. Especially leader suqad which has off map mortar is way to OP vs emplacements or inf when able to crawl.
http://forum.bkmod.net/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=635

**Low priority**
12-Opel Maultiers rocket barrage ammo price should be decreased to 75.

And why should it?

[Butterkeks]

Point 14 as well is a low priority one!!

Still, it was already denied. So why do you post it again? Even if it has a "low priority".

[Krieger Blitzer]

About the 200popcap mode, no one would ever deny adding any kind of more gaming types... As if u don't like it; u can just not play it then!
I had PM conversations with MarKr considering it too.. he said he doesn't really mind; but it will not be implemented over 490. However that maybe on the next patch!! He meant this upcoming one

Point 13 is a low priority one because of that it was asked several times before just like point 15.

Leader Storm unit to have the ability to crawl without the veterancy training unlock since the beginning again wasn't really denied.. yet, I focused more on the Demo Storm squad btw!

What was already denied before is to increase the Demo Storm price while removing the limit restriction from them having 3 available at a time, remember? And this was not requested anymore time anyways...

SO, obviously I am not repeating the already denied points unlike u r claiming.
Point 14, well... I believe it's worth to be mentioned again though as it's still optional.. any problems? ^^

[MarKr]

Anyways:
1) Yep, working on this one
2) Probably no
3) I only know about Tommy squads (we have a fix ready for them), all other squads work fine for me
4) Probably no, Wolf said that he didn't want to tweak Tiger abilities any further
5) Very low priority, but maybe possible
6) Will check it, maybe I overlooked this one
7) Defiately no
8) Definately no. Hotchkiss is a unit without limit so maybe that 2 Nebels can deal more damage than 2 Hotchkisses but you can build many more Hotchkisses
9) Will check 88s... I don't know why Luft has no DF, maybe old dev team had a reason not to implement it?
10) Weird, I thought the prices were corrected...
11) Not sure if cap ability is needed for them. AB spotters are there to call-in drops, RA spotter is for navigating arty. Crawl probably also not. you would drop RA spotter somewhere, activated crawl, crawled all the way to enemy base and start sending arty. AB spotters have offmap mortar barrage, similar problem with them.
12) Reason?
13) Already said we checked the guns and we don't know why this is happening. If we find the source it will be corrected but we're in the dark here since there are hundreds of things that could cause this.
14/15) already commented on these

[Butterkeks]

Point 13 is a low priority one because of that it was asked several times before just like point 15.

Maybe. But I'd consider this "bug" to be more important than sqpaaing Calliope with Jumbo (already denied). Point 3 also got a hundred times posted already. THis has too "High priority".

Well regarding Point 15:

Still, it was already denied. So why do you post it again? Even if it has a "low priority".

About the 200popcap mode, no one would ever deny adding any kind of more gaming types... As if u don't like it; u can just not play it then!
I had PM conversations with MarKr considering it too.. he said he doesn't really mind; but it will not be implemented over 490. However that maybe on the next patch!! He meant this upcoming one

I don't mind having this mode. I'm just asking myself how the mod benefits from it? 200 popcap or 250 popcap, who cares? Most games are won with smaller armies.

Whatever, regarding the rest:

******Highest priority****** (MarKr already answered this one through PMs btw)
1-Actually the Accurate Long Range Shot ability needs a hot-fix.
MarKr already knows about the problem btw but I will list it down shortly here ONLY for everyone to be informed as there are 2 certain issues with it;
That u can't cancel the ability command anymore, therefore.. u would lose the ammo cost instantly if the tank didn't shoot 'for any reason' the marked target.
As it will also randomly select another target to hit by even running after it in order, if the main selected target at anytime has suddenly become out of the range or behind any obstacle!!

As this is a bugfix, I agree that this should be implemented.

*****Higher priority*****
4-Tiger Ace should be able to use the Accurate Long Range Shot ability on Vet lvl 1 as well as all the other Tigers too, on the other hand the Pershing Ace should be able to use the Rapid Shots ability on Vet lvl 1.. and the same to be applied also for normal Pershings.
Tiger's flank speed ability should be delayed to Vet lvl 3...

Oh man... Could you please just accept that your Tiger won't get Long shot at vet1? I tink it's quite funny how you always try to suggest it and then also try to "hide" it with other little changes for pershings.

****High priority****
7-Both the Leader and the Demo Storm squads (Or at least only the Demo one!!) should be able to crawl without the veterancy training unlock, as they are both already limited to only a single unit at a time btw of which is also consisting of only 4 men.

I'm against it. Reasons are known.

****High priority****
8-TH doc should receive 150mm Nebels (limited to 1 or just 2), cuz the Hotchkiss is surely not enough as it's actually too lame and very expensive as well. Specifically since that if the Calli for the Armor doc would be earlier available as requested above!

And? Armor also only has Calliope, which is unprecise, makes nearly no damage vs emplacements and is very expensive. Hotchkiss may be slow, but you can have three (or two? not sure) of them and they all shoot the devastating nebler rockets. Enough to break any defense. Pls not more arty for docs that neither need it, nor should have it.

***Standard priority***
10-The PE Pz4 F should receive the same cost reduction (-10 fuel) of the Terror Pz4s made on 486 yet.

I don't care about that one. Can be change, can be not changed... whatever.

***Standard priority***
11-CW RA doc spotter should be able to capture points, US AB doc spotters should be able to capture points too and also gain the ability to crawl.

No.
But AB spotters should be able to use binoculars. I know it's buggy for two man squads, so maybe just reduce it it a one man squad? Like it was done for RA.

**Low priority**
12-Opel Maultiers rocket barrage ammo price should be decreased to 75.

I don't see any reasons for that.

Well, funny how most of these changes are only for your favourite docs and would quite buff them.
My two cents on this whole topic, which is in my eyes (excpet for the bug fixes) unneccessary.

[Krieger Blitzer]

@MarKr;
2-4) Those 2 points are so goddamn important, I will this time seriously talk to Wolf once he is available about them anyways...

7) Even the Demo Storms? o.O I almost never see them being used btw.. 4 men; 4Kars, no normal nades as well, what's the point of this unit then? Only laying mines or what??? I could instead get Pioneers for this job!!!

@Keks;
Thanks for ur opinions, but it's surely NOT u who is going to decide what will be implemented whether no. So plz stop with somewhat imitating this kind of role

****High priority****
8-TH doc should receive 150mm Nebels (limited to 1 or just 2), cuz the Hotchkiss is surely not enough as it's actually too lame and very expensive as well. Specifically since that if the Calli for the Armor doc would be earlier available as requested above!

And? Armor also only has Calliope, which is unprecise, makes nearly no damage vs emplacements and is very expensive. Hotchkiss may be slow, but you can have three (or two? not sure) of them and they all shoot the devastating nebler rockets. Enough to break any defense. Pls not more arty for docs that neither need it, nor should have it.

Specifically for this reason (the weak Calliope) it was Hawks who suggested point number 2.

[Butterkeks]

@Keks;
Thanks for ur opinions, but it's surely NOT u who is going to decide what will be implemented whether no. So plz stop with somewhat imitating this kind of role

Lmao
This sentence from your mouth...
Made my day xD

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

I can add to fix list a nasty way how defence frag nade is beeing used now (all squad have to be in cover, if you activated a nade throw but at last moment one dumb head moved the granade is not going to be thrown). I dont even know why devs broke this in one of the updates, make it back pls.

[MarKr]

Def grenades are meant to be used from cover - even the describtions says so...We already talked about this. If you want to use it and be sure that "one dumb head" won't move from cover, use Hold Ground.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Thats very frustrating to use, since cover system is not perfect and sometimes 1 man simply doesnt want to take cover. Can you make it in this way: cover Icon presents = Nade throw is possible.

At least some changes are needed here, because current way of working is very annoying.

[Tor]

Thats very frustrating to use, since cover system is not perfect and sometimes 1 man simply doesnt want to take cover. Can you make it in this way: cover Icon presents = Nade throw is possible.

At least some changes are needed here, because current way of working is very annoying.

100%, all times i use normal granade, no time for cat mouse game.

[MarKr]

The bigger AoE is simply a trade-off for being in cover. IF it were to be done as you ask, then some negative stuff (more expensive, longer cooldown, shorter range...) should be added to the ability...otherwise it would be just normal grenade only with bigger AoE...

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Make it more expensive than normal nade, its really not a problem.

[Redgaarden]

4-Tiger Ace should be able to use the Accurate Long Range Shot ability on Vet lvl 1.

I feel like this could help me alot in my lategame blitzkreig assaults. I mean the only reason I get tiger is for protecting my pz4, stoping them from dying by enemy tanks (Inneffective) but with this ability would give my pz4 a nice edge agaisnt enemy armor. Well this is kinda selfish, but I believe it would fit great with all these blitz nerfs

7-Demo Squads.

Blitz has kinda hard time destroying enemy emplacements early game, so it would be nice if they had a smal group of soldiers that could throw some bundle nades and clear them out early game.

[Tor]

Why then i call Tiger Ace with him f**** storms? i can build storms witout ACE.

[Krieger Blitzer]

4-Tiger Ace should be able to use the Accurate Long Range Shot ability on Vet lvl 1.

I feel like this could help me alot in my lategame blitzkreig assaults. I mean the only reason I get tiger is for protecting my pz4, stoping them from dying by enemy tanks (Inneffective) but with this ability would give my pz4 a nice edge agaisnt enemy armor. Well this is kinda selfish, but I believe it would fit great with all these blitz nerfs

7-Demo Squads.

Blitz has kinda hard time destroying enemy emplacements early game, so it would be nice if they had a smal group of soldiers that could throw some bundle nades and clear them out early game.

+1

Why then i call Tiger Ace with him f**** storms? i can build storms witout ACE.

Yes! A price drop to 1450MP like the Pershing Ace without Storms combined would be a really good idea I believe...

[Warhawks97]

This is probably a similar thread to that huge one I published before, which is the "Inspiring for Perfection!" topic of the 490 patch.
But this time it's a lot so much smaller.. as that the mod is already too close hopefully into being really perfect...

Priorities are only given to estimate how much important is each point! Absolutely no any kind of dramatic changes are intended.
It might be also worth to mention that I have actually prepared most of the high priority points with Hawks

So here we go;
******Highest priority****** (MarKr already answered this one through PMs btw)
1-Actually the Accurate Long Range Shot ability needs a hot-fix.
MarKr already knows about the problem btw but I will list it down shortly here ONLY for everyone to be informed as there are 2 certain issues with it;
That u can't cancel the ability command anymore, therefore.. u would lose the ammo cost instantly if the tank didn't shoot 'for any reason' the marked target.
As it will also randomly select another target to hit by even running after it in order, if the main selected target at anytime has suddenly become out of the range or behind any obstacle!!

*****Higher priority*****
2-After buffing or improving the 76s against mediums, it's now a must to delay the Jumbo by just swapping it with the Calliope. As that the Calliope new price should be 650MP and the Jumbo new cost would be 750MP on the other hand!

*****Higher priority*****
3-'Hold position' abilities are still bugged with some units as it prevents them to retreat whenever requested while this ability is activated.

*****Higher priority*****
4-Tiger Ace should be able to use the Accurate Long Range Shot ability on Vet lvl 1 as well as all the other Tigers too, on the other hand the Pershing Ace should be able to use the Rapid Shots ability on Vet lvl 1.. and the same to be applied also for normal Pershings.
Tiger's flank speed ability should be delayed to Vet lvl 3...

****High priority****
5-A 200popcap mode, who would ever object on adding anymore kind of gaming types anyways?!
Maybe just as a replacement for the 150popcap mode or the 250popcap one by just converting any of them.

****High priority****
6-Achilles DF ability is still delaying. I think MarKr forgot to adjust it for this tank unlike the rest... Plus that it's auto targeting enemy tanks even in ambush mode.

****High priority****
7-Both the Leader and the Demo Storm squads (Or at least only the Demo one!!) should be able to crawl without the veterancy training unlock, as they are both already limited to only a single unit at a time btw of which is also consisting of only 4 men.

****High priority****
8-TH doc should receive 150mm Nebels (limited to 1 or just 2), cuz the Hotchkiss is surely not enough as it's actually too lame and very expensive as well. Specifically since that if the Calli for the Armor doc would be earlier available as requested above!

***Standard priority***
9-The DF ability should be fixed for all 88s just like the way how MarKr adjusted it for almost all the tanks (no delay or double shooting bugs) and then it has to be added to the Luft doc ones as they actually don't have it for some unknown reasons! Yet it's useful for sure as it mainly allows u for example to shoot at any obstacles in order to erase them.

***Standard priority***
10-The PE Pz4 F should receive the same cost reduction (-10 fuel) of the Terror Pz4s made on 486 yet.

***Standard priority***
11-CW RA doc spotter should be able to capture points, US AB doc spotters should be able to capture points too and also gain the ability to crawl.

**Low priority**
12-Opel Maultiers rocket barrage ammo price should be decreased to 75.

**Low priority**
13-US 37mm AT gun crews are still immortal, just too tough to die unlike the Axis 37mm AT gun crews.

**Low priority**
14-Only one 120mm Mortar team should be added to the Luft doc as it would be then also limited to just a single 1 for the SE doc too (same of what we did with the SE snipers).

*Lowest priority*
15-Instead of the Panthers Rapid Shots ability, they should have the Accurate Long Range Shot on Vet lvl 2.

That's all from my side!! Yes, just a tiny patch. More likely not more than 10MBs size!
Maybe Wolf has something more to be done as he plans! But for me only these are the most concerns...

1.OK for fix
2. i agree suggestion, but i dont get your argumentation.
3. OK
4. Nah. Making such shots requires lots of skill as gunner. Also, considering what red says, long shots for so many tanks and so early forces the camp. Tanks would just get vet 1 in some combats and then staying back. After a while a team may got like 5 tanks doing long shots but never going for attack. They would just defend and support friendly schreck/stg inf from distance. The logical result would be arty spam against all vet 1 tanks that have long shot.
5.i play 250-999 anyway
6.
7. Yes for demo, no for leader. The leader can fire mortar off map while crawling. So one well placed barrage gives instant vet up and thus a better leader bonus and thats maybe before the squad saw any combat.
8. Cant agree. Hotchkiss isnt that expensive, just slow. But neblers 150 mm are good vs soft targets. But i dont have probs with soft targets as TH. The Hotchkiss kills emplacments (esspecially RE) a way more effective. Also neblers in late game arent that effective Anymore. I prefer the hotchkiss here without "set up" and "dismantle" time. So i would afterall prefer the hotchkiss over nebler when playing TH doc.
9.
10. yes.
11 Makes sense. But they should not be able to use certain abilties during that time.
12. I dont really see the reason. Esspecially against mixed forces (inf, weapon crew, vehicles and emplacments) its great. It maybe doesnt instant kill a vehicle or emplacments but it greatly increases your overall damageoutput and is very good to prepare assaults. Just many get two of them using it like howitzers, shooting against targets without deeper sense.
13.
14. As said, whats the point behind it? Just another expensive unit that doesnt fit in that doc.
15. No. The Panthers are quite valuable combining firepower, frontal armor, speed and damage and some cool abilties by having relatively low cost. The only weakness are the low HP but they can afterall nicely roam the frontlines and holding the line for a long time, killing inf and tanks very good.
As i said, in far future i would rather aim on general slight range advantage or better standard range for axis elite tanks than adding more of such abilties. Also see point 4.

[Krieger Blitzer]

When we talked about it on Steam.. u said u don't mind to see Tigers being able to use the Accurate Long Range Shot on Vet lvl 1, weird!
"Considering what Red says"? Red was referring to the point as he actually supports it... Also; "5 tanks doing Long Shots"?? o.O What??!! U can get more than 2 Tigers??? Interesting

The Tiger Ace has been always able to use the Accurate Long Shot without being in need for any more veterancy levels to be gained before 485. And the Pershing Ace on the other was also able to use the Rapid Shots the same way, but now there is simply no point of calling in any of these 2 tanks.

Yet the Pershing (and generally even all the US Armor doc tanks) for now is having more advantages as it can be boosted in range by the command car! Not to mention about the ambushing Hellcats, Jacksons and stationary Fireflys... And the most nasty thing, M10 with 'hit and run' tactics!!!

[Warhawks97]

When we talked about it on Steam.. u said u don't mind to see Tigers being able to use the Accurate Long Range Shot on Vet lvl 1, weird!
"Considering what Red says"? Red was referring to the point as he actually supports it... Also; "5 tanks doing Long Shots"?? o.O What??!! U can get more than 2 Tigers??? Interesting

I refered to the Team. There it can happen to see a Tiger+1-3 Panthers at once.

In long games i easily managed sometimes to get 2 Panthers and all vets. Imagine now an axis team that has got a vet Tiger and vet panther. Guess what will happen next. Reccon+inf with schrecks. Those attack, tanks stay miles back and killing cruical targets (M16, scott, AA tanks). That way axis would never be anyhow forced to risk their tanks in attacks. The ultimate "offensive camp" scneario. There wouldnt be a single real tank assault. Just skirmishing to get vets. Also Allied wouldnt attack axis tanks anymore at all and going staright for arty bomb and ambush camp. They would simply know that one attack that didnt kill the axis tank results in a vet for that axis tanks. And then only long shot kills. And over time the ammount of vet axis tanks increases steadily.

[Krieger Blitzer]

WTF are u talking about?? ONLY Tigers can use the Accurate Long Shot!! Panthers will not get the Accurate Long Shot as well. Who told u that they will get it?! And plz don't try to convince me that the Allies are not using arty 'anyways' through 4v4s and 3v3s.. regardless if there was a Vet Tiger or not... And u can still out-range them back using ur tanks after all.
Yet currently the situation is that u r somehow able to out-range them with ur Allies tanks very well, but Tigers are usually unable to reply at them by shooting back o.O