Collection of changes for BK-Mod

[Terence's Mouth]

I want open here a thread for all changes that players want or wish without discuss about them.
I think its much easier for wolf to have a list of all changes that players want.

[Terence's Mouth]

1. Decrease artillery damage to tanks, no artillery can destroy chains of a tank or engine (only antitank ground units should have this abillity)
2. Limit 107mortar SE and British heavy mortars to only "one".
3. Decrease damage of grenades in trenches
I want the trenches back into this mod because at the moment theyre mostly useless,i want them as good artillery/mortar cover on openfields
to make your defense saver.

[Redgaarden]

4. Reduce Sniper Health. less viable lategame when arty hits the field. or if someone builds a mortar and it survies a direct hit.

[Warhawks97]

1. Which ability are you talking about? And how do you imagine to finally destroy the biggest tanks? If i am wrong units like elephant, JT do bounce pretty much everything that is fired at them (except you have SP). So a elephant, JT (and even KT to a certain extent) would be 100% match winner. How? Just have 2 inf squads arround and/or vehicle with 20 mm canon and keep JT and elephant shooting from distance. Because everything that could stop these units then is to use sticky and then zooks in rear. So it would be painfully easy then to win that way, all they have to do is to keep some inf in front of that tank and 20 mm units behind it.

99% of JT and stuff are being stopped by sticky/arty and killed by arty (and air). So how do you imagine killing these beasts when axis are not dumbs sending them alone accross the field?


2. Why dont you suggest to remove them entirely? And srsly? the 107 mortar from CW is soooo nasty? How many use them? 75 mm HT´s are usually a way more deadly.... besides that one can be killed easily with neblers and friendly mortars.


3. A bit. Still i see only US being bad when using trenches coz of their bad long range stopping power and axis nades range.



If 1 and 2 is going to be added i gotta pay another modder to create my personal BK which i would play with mates when they want to. (Or maybe i leave BK... my play time has dropped already by like 60% waiting for new patch. If these changes gotta get introduced i gotta stop entirely.

[Terence's Mouth]

No ability just the chance to destroy engine or chains. and no discuss here pls
(btw there are many ways to kill tanks if you need arty for them then youre a noob that cant play bk mod)

[Warhawks97]

No ability just the chance to destroy engine or chains. and no discuss here pls
(btw there are many ways to kill tanks if you need arty for them then youre a noob that cant play bk mod)

hmmm... So elephant and a Panther and then like 5 gren/pgren squads with stgs/schrecks in front of them.... you show me then how you kill these tanks without arty when all your inf is being shred before it comes into sticky nade and when tanks never going for assault.

Longer time ago i had a game... enemies camped at la fiere with 2 Panther, AA tank, Tank IV and some inf. We had only inf doc providing arty. The only thing that could force the enemie to attack with their tanks was to use as much arty as possible. Running with friendly tanks and inf into AA tank and 3 Tanks of which two have strong armor is simply suicide.


But ok.... thats your topic, your logic.

[Terence's Mouth]

i dont say put out artillery of the game, just decrease damage to tanks little bit plus take out the chance to destroy chains or engine.
you still can use artillery but not in a OP way like at the moment, its just nonsense imobilize a tank with first shot of Inf doc artillery and then finish it of with bombing.
And there are so many ways and units to kill all tanks in that game that you cant tell me seriously artillery is the only chance for aliets to stop tanks or win a game

[Warhawks97]

i dont say put out artillery of the game, just decrease damage to tanks little bit plus take out the chance to destroy chains or engine.
you still can use artillery but not in a OP way like at the moment, its just nonsense imobilize a tank with first shot of Inf doc artillery and then finish it of with bombing.
And there are so many ways and units to kill all tanks in that game that you cant tell me seriously artillery is the only chance for aliets to stop tanks or win a game

the prob with arty vs tanks is:

The enemie doesnt build arty when they see tanks. The Artillery is already there when the Tanks do come! And when they have a decent ammount of arty units (veted one esspecially) they will use it also against tanks as it would cost much more to get further unit. When players (both sides) prefer a speedfull and dynamic game building just half the ammount of MGs and paks that are build usually (which happens sometimes) you see by by far less arty in game (less aryt docs even) and then most tanks are being killed not by arty because when tanks do arrive and when there is almost no arty at that time then players do not build arty JUST to kill tanks. Then other ways than arty are more effective in killing tanks

But this means that the overall reason to go for arty quickly need to be eliminated. That can be done by readjusted cost-efficency ratios between defense weapons, offense weapons and arty cost! S

ukin recently said again that the 75 mm HT is so far the only unit that can crack early axis Pak/MG/vehicle defense and he is right with that. That means you need to go right from start for RA doc. What does RA doc? its gets arty... more, more accurate, bigger. What does RA doc when it already has a vet 4 priest and enemie gets KT? It uses priests to kill that KT coz its the most effective way for him and the cheapest.


If you manage to eliminate these reaons so that arty is less urgent just to kill some silly early defenses and if defensive weapons wouldnt be so over cost effective and arty so painfully cheap then less arty and less camping would be there, thus less sniper vet arty and much more movment at the time the tanks do arrive then you wouldnt have such trouble with arty anymore. These things could maybe help to achieve that goal.

- Reducing cost of certian inf units/or buffing some
- Adding/reworking elite units that can take out defenses just as cost effective as arty (e.g rangers) without turning them into cyborgs by using/adding abilites (smoke nades as sample) to those elites.
- Increasing cost of arty units and arty abilties (a nebler is cheaper than a damn mortar, a arty barrage is cheaper as to load HE rounds and to activate those)
- Adding light arty to docs that can take out paks without being able to deal any significant ammount of damage to tanks
- Making paks more expensive and not so well armored (they take three hits from zooks to die... arty can make it faster)
- Having cost changes on vehicles
- Enabling breakthrough tanks to make breakthroughs ( esspecially Churchills, King Tiger) able to resists most defense fire
- Readjusting costs of mortars


I am posting that since like a year already but well..... maybe you didnt read everything so o bring it up in a short way.

[Terence's Mouth]

I saw so many tanks that was immobilized by first arty hit and then finished of by artillery.
This is so boring and annoying that the fun goes from 100% to 0%
This has to be eliminated because we playing this game for fun and nothing else.
Artillery willbe still enough dangerous for tanks so you realy cant complain about it warhawks and say aliets has only that chance with artillery...
RA has pounders and achillis plus artillery can still hit enemy tanks.

Again, i want more groundforces battles instead of artillery or bombing battles, artillery that immobilize tanks destroys fun and a good gameplay in ground battles.

[Erich]

if we follow this logic,we also should nerf the mg42 because it kills an entire squad in seconds and kills the fun. About the arty wolf already nerfed the chance of immobilize tanks.

ALL Arty weapons should destroy tracks/engine a bit less often

[Terence's Mouth]

lol, you can retreat infantry thats much cheaper then a Jagtiger or a Kingtiger, plus you can kill mg42 faster with mortars vehicles or good manouvers than artillery in the back.
But if you buy a heavy tank with a huge price and you loose it only by bombing where is the fun? tell me your logic then...

[Warhawks97]

I saw so many tanks that was immobilized by first arty hit and then finished of by artillery.
This is so boring and annoying that the fun goes from 100% to 0%
This has to be eliminated because we playing this game for fun and nothing else.
Artillery willbe still enough dangerous for tanks so you realy cant complain about it warhawks and say aliets has only that chance with artillery...
RA has pounders and achillis plus artillery can still hit enemy tanks.

Again, i want more groundforces battles instead of artillery or bombing battles, artillery that immobilize tanks destroys fun and a good gameplay in ground battles.

you dont read what i write.... nvm....

I saw so many tanks that was immobilized by first arty hit and then finished of by artillery.
This is so boring and annoying that the fun goes from 100% to 0%

Sure.... mostly after heavy camp games.... and when KT or SP came then vet 4 arty was awaiting them. I also saw games with almost no tank lost to arty simply nobody was camping much and so there wasnt any vet arty that could await the tanks.

Limiting too much kills the fun. Endless camp games because arty got restricted so hard is boring. I mean be honest.... 95% of the Big tanks like elepahnt, KT and JT do arrive after like 1 hour of pure bunkering (bunkers, pak spam, 88, HMG spam and artying (nebler, grille etc).... so its not a surprise they die by arty.....or?

[Terence's Mouth]

you tell me i didnt read you post?
most of your posts are bullshit while that changes i want will bring more fun into the game and not the opposite of it.
i cant understand that you cant understand lol

But i try again to tell you exactly what i want with this changes.
Less bombing and more ground battles, this is everything i dont care about how to change it i just brought some good ideas that are realy simple to put them into the game and helps realy much.
Your ideas with costs would be maybe good too, but it wouldnt help at players who spams 107 mortars only if you increase the price to a unnormal level.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Hawks is right about this point, more light arty = less heavy arty, cause every arty party game starts with wall of mg42 and paks, some defenses are just way to effective against certain doc ( single flak will completely stop Armor doc, fixed scout car + 50mm pak and raf doc can't do much, or double sniper + 107mm mortar and Luft is doomed.

I would really prefer more spread arty around allied docs (arty Cromwell to raf, 105mm Sherman to Armor, 75mm Howitzers available for AB and inf right after Motorpool and supply yard deployment) AND other idea - emplacements should have higher upkeep ( maybe ammo upkeep??) so if player is going to play sim city he wouldn't have resources for building big army ( I don't really like how inf or RE doc can build a Majino defense line and have a huge army at the same time). Therefore some allied units have to become stronger, Terence was god damn right when said that best allied tactic is bombing and fortification spamming. Better rangers with better m1 for higher price, commando which are usable right from the start, but not after thousand tree upgrades (check stens against terror grens, I'm pretty sure that they won't kill a single man) better 82s AB, maybe a bit more health for 101s at default, but less bonuses from hq aura and training unlock. For axis I would make a big delay for such a strong arty units like, walking Stuka and 210mm nebel + 120mm mortar must have tree unlock. Paks shouldn't take so many tank shots. Axis in return must get really badass superheavies, at least King tiger must be really powerful + some inf units can be better ( reg.5 with more HP and slightly better Fg42). Maybe some good extra features like that one which I provided for Tiger Ace - it will have passive boosting aura for all nearby units.

And I'm agree with sniper limited to 1, even only because 2 snipers are giving extremely big advantage when you facing non sniper doc ( inf vs Luft, wh against cw and etc). Or just make them more expensive/ HP nerf.

[Terence's Mouth]

I talked about artillery to tanks and about heavy mortar limit, not about arty limit.
Im hunting for the biggest bad feelings in mod to eliminate them, and at the moment theyre at tank offensives stopped by artillery only and infantry offensives stopped by mortars only.
Its to boring and nobody needs skill for it. I cant understand guys telling me im wrong, i only would understand him if hes a guy that only can win a game with these bombing tactics.

[Warhawks97]

Hawks is right about this point, more light arty = less heavy arty, cause every arty party game starts with wall of mg42 and paks, some defenses are just way to effective against certain doc ( single flak will completely stop Armor doc, fixed scout car + 50mm pak and raf doc can't do much, or double sniper + 107mm mortar and Luft is doomed.

I would really prefer more spread arty around allied docs (arty Cromwell to raf, 105mm Sherman to Armor, 75mm Howitzers available for AB and inf right after Motorpool and supply yard deployment) AND other idea - emplacements should have higher upkeep ( maybe ammo upkeep??) so if player is going to play sim city he wouldn't have resources for building big army ( I don't really like how inf or RE doc can build a Majino defense line and have a huge army at the same time). Therefore some allied units have to become stronger, Terence was god damn right when said that best allied tactic is bombing and fortification spamming. Better rangers with better m1 for higher price, commando which are usable right from the start, but not after thousand tree upgrades (check stens against terror grens, I'm pretty sure that they won't kill a single man) better 82s AB, maybe a bit more health for 101s at default, but less bonuses from hq aura and training unlock. For axis I would make a big delay for such a strong arty units like, walking Stuka and 210mm nebel + 120mm mortar must have tree unlock. Paks shouldn't take so many tank shots. Axis in return must get really badass superheavies, at least King tiger must be really powerful + some inf units can be better ( reg.5 with more HP and slightly better Fg42). Maybe some good extra features like that one which I provided for Tiger Ace - it will have passive boosting aura for all nearby units.

And I'm agree with sniper limited to 1, even only because 2 snipers are giving extremely big advantage when you facing non sniper doc ( inf vs Luft, wh against cw and etc). Or just make them more expensive/ HP nerf.

Absolutely right +1

With snipers i would simply say slightly less HP and cost to 370 MP rather than limit of 1.

US must be somehow able to stop advancing axis inf without using arty and stuff always. Simply M1 change to be able to do ranged fights as well and ranger changes could help very much here.

The KT must become a badass tank able to steamrole simply most defenses..... So fix the US 76 mm pak, M18/M10 glitch and buff its frontal armor generally against 76 mm US guns.

Sten commandos and other allied elites should be usefull from start (its when the arty party begins) and not just food for stg grens in early game.

Paks not so extremly durable... they should be mainly ambush units, not able to stand so many shots. Maybe in return slughtly reduced incoming accuracy but thats all. Two ambushed shots which each can oneshot units much more expensive than those from a distant the enemie cant reach it doesnt need to survive more hits than a tank at the same time.

105 sherman to prevent being checkmated and stopped by like 1-2 88 and AT squad.


Having also infantry mortars (or at least the 60 mm cheaper and avaialble for inf doc as well) would allow better smoke screen cover for advancing units. Also add smoke rounds to mortar HT´s as well.

Add arty barrage to luftwaffe 88 and the 107 mortars would be less an issue for luftwaffe.

Smoke grenades for 82nd AB cheaper (iirc they cost 20 rigt now... thats tooo much). Also maybe rifle nade smoke rounds for free... that way 3-4 rifle squads could fire first their smoke rounds and then attack.... but that cost 40 ammo currently.



Changes like that would be harder to do, but much better and effective than simply adding further limits untill the game becomes unplayable and boring due to endless limits on every unit. Finally.... when people would really build like 20 rifle squads as inf doc because everything else has a limit then i am sure players will ask for a limit on rifle squads coz it "too boring and noobish" lol.

[kwok]

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=592&p=5168#p5168

[kwok]

Also, fun is subjective. Maybe arty party is fun for some people. Just cuz it's not for you doesn't mean it isn't for others. I personally do not like arty, I like direct fights like you. But every now and then I think it's hilarious to make 5 howitzers. There is a reason why the community has "bridge map players" (Blech, but whatever to each their own).

[Warhawks97]

you can discuss what an arty party is and when its nasty. In old versions we had looots of arty. But i didnt bother cause all defense just died and so i could move fast and free so the arty didnt hit me really. I dont like arty parties when i cant move units coz everything and everybody is campy. The arty isnt enough to kill defense and as result they they shoot everything but defensive units. This combination is what i dislike. Also 5 howitzers in 2 vs 2 is crazy but not OP coz he wont have much else, esspecially no ammo. On very large maps 5 howitzers would be normal in order to reach all areas of the map.

anyway.

[atazs]

AA emplacements that protect bases are extremely tough and have a lot of HP
Seriously, i spend more time getting rid of them than i do with HQs and buildings. A lot of times the whole base would be gone with the AA guns still up.
The only way to effectively get rid of them is to use fire and burn them out. Using arty against them literally does nothing.
They seriously need to be nerfed.

[Warhawks97]

AA emplacements that protect bases are extremely tough and have a lot of HP
Seriously, i spend more time getting rid of them than i do with HQs and buildings. A lot of times the whole base would be gone with the AA guns still up.
The only way to effectively get rid of them is to use fire and burn them out. Using arty against them literally does nothing.
They seriously need to be nerfed.

i could agree here. Tanks and mortars etc shooting endless long. Would be nice if base def is just as durable as the normal versions of it.

You may can say: "When you reached their base then you won already" but thats not always correct. Sometimes i had games when i reached once enemie base for a longer time but it wasnt won yet.

[Butterkeks]

Never had problems with them.

US: M4 Sherman with HE ammo
Brits: Crusader
WH: tank IV with HE Ammo, doc specific: Stupa, Stuka, Stuh, Ostwind
PE: tank IV with HE ammo, doc specific: Wirbelwind, Flame nades, Hummel, flame tank, 88 barrage, hotchkiss

ANd for ALL Factions:
Mortars, mortars, mortars

Base AA is imo no problem Just for inf^^