Tiger immune to any shot after they are heavily damaged.

[McCracker42o]

Hi all

So I was chasing around this Veteran tiger all around the map and finally had em to stop, and my 7 tank destroyers shot it till the tiger was at destroyed engine and destroyed main gun. Then my 7 tank destroyers kept firing over and over again like 11 more times till the tiger was destroyed. Why is that? How strong is the armor? And the shots actually HIT the target. Is this a bug or the way game works?

[Krieger Blitzer]

Hahaha, u must have been just unlucky.. other times; u could destroy it only with a single one shot actually!
But what kind of tank destroyers u used btw? Let me guess... Wolverines??? ^^
They are too cheap and so therefore they must be very poor. Use the Hellcats if u ever had them instead

[McCracker42o]

I'm using vcoh 1.71... not sure what are hell cats.. but heard of wolverines tho.. not sure which ones are wolverines... the tanks that im talking about are the ones with weak armor but stronger attack.

[Warhawks97]

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=561

To make it short.

US 76 gun (Hellcat, 76 sherman and hellcat) have 0.4513 basic pen chance. This drops to short/mid/long/distant range: 1/0.84/0.69/0.54 for M10 and M18, 1/0.84/0.67/0.54 for 76 shermans. So you calculate: 0.4513x0.54=0.243702 (24,3702%) pen chance at distant range. That way you can get pen chance for each range.

HVAP boosts by 1.54. So now you do: 0.4513x0.54x1.54=0.37530108 (37,530108%) pen chance with HVAP at max range.

Tank commander give also boosts. from x1 to x1.3 with vet 3. So when Tank commander is vet 3 it then is: 0.4513x0.54x1.54x1.3=0.487891404 (48,7891404%) pen chance.

So yeah, even with all possible boosts you dont get over 50% pen chance at max range (which is supposed to be arround 1400-1500 meters).

hope that helps.

I'm using vcoh 1.71... not sure what are hell cats.. but heard of wolverines tho.. not sure which ones are wolverines... the tanks that im talking about are the ones with weak armor but stronger attack.

vcoh is crap here. In vcoh the Hellcat has more armor but weaker gun (much weaker gun, dont use hellcat in vcoh!!). In fact the M10 had better armor and so it is in BK. The gun was slightly better on hellcat but in BK both guns, M10 wolverine and M18 are equal in strenght.


just as side fact: In vcoh the M10 and M18 deal more damage against tanks as the 76 sherman. The M18 has by far weakest penetration while M10 is very effective against most actually all targets have good pen stats and damage. But just to let you know.


So in BK M18 is weak armored one.

[Krieger Blitzer]

In Bk mod the Wolverine's turret rotates much slower than the Hellcat's turret too which is a realistic advantage for the Hellcat!

But btw, I honestly never understood why the tank commander would ever boost the penetration chances... :\

[Wolf]

Most of the boosts are because "realism". Atleast some idea behind it. Stuff like "tank commander can better coordinate what to do, when to tell others to do whatever they have to do, in order to hit weaker spot" - weaker spot in this case means hitting something with lower armor, thus bigger penetration. Most ideas were like this imo. Plus its strategy game, so it gives it more importance.

[Krieger Blitzer]

That's actually a good and logic explanation

[Warhawks97]

In Bk mod the Wolverine's turret rotates much slower than the Hellcat's turret too which is a realistic advantage for the Hellcat!

M18:
Cost more
Faster turret rotation
Cal 50 on top vs inf
Can stun enemie tanks
good speed, speed boost after ambushed shot
Armor 18 mm thick. It get killed by 20 mm canons and even HMG´s with AP rounds sometimes.
just everything can kill it. So its very fragile

M10:
Cheap (320/35)
Special HEAT rounds that can pen most axis tanks well
Weird hit and run ability (which i think can be removed anyway since hit and run is automatically made by ambush and after ambush bonuses)
Better armor (arround 50 mm), so its good to support inf killing units like 20 mm vehicles, killing vehicles by being under fire of auto canons and stuff.
Slow turret rotation
No MG

But btw, I honestly never understood why the tank commander would ever boost the penetration chances... :\

I never understood why they exist. I mean every tank has a commander, lol...... A Tank without commander is actually not really functional or combat ready. They should be removed in my opinion as they boost units sometimes too much beyond any realistic unit strenght. So hopefully they wont be in BK2.

Most of the boosts are because "realism". Atleast some idea behind it. Stuff like "tank commander can better coordinate what to do, when to tell others to do whatever they have to do, in order to hit weaker spot" - weaker spot in this case means hitting something with lower armor, thus bigger penetration. Most ideas were like this imo. Plus its strategy game, so it gives it more importance.

which should be made by special command vehicles which improve coordination like the command vehicle and CW command tank. Also vet tanks could have an "aura" boosting nearby tanks a little bit.

[McCracker42o]

:O we got a math guy over here. Thanks for reply. now understood.

http://forum.bkmod.net/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=561

To make it short.

US 76 gun (Hellcat, 76 sherman and hellcat) have 0.4513 basic pen chance. This drops to short/mid/long/distant range: 1/0.84/0.69/0.54 for M10 and M18, 1/0.84/0.67/0.54 for 76 shermans. So you calculate: 0.4513x0.54=0.243702 (24,3702%) pen chance at distant range. That way you can get pen chance for each range.

HVAP boosts by 1.54. So now you do: 0.4513x0.54x1.54=0.37530108 (37,530108%) pen chance with HVAP at max range.

Tank commander give also boosts. from x1 to x1.3 with vet 3. So when Tank commander is vet 3 it then is: 0.4513x0.54x1.54x1.3=0.487891404 (48,7891404%) pen chance.

So yeah, even with all possible boosts you dont get over 50% pen chance at max range (which is supposed to be arround 1400-1500 meters).

hope that helps.

I'm using vcoh 1.71... not sure what are hell cats.. but heard of wolverines tho.. not sure which ones are wolverines... the tanks that im talking about are the ones with weak armor but stronger attack.

vcoh is crap here. In vcoh the Hellcat has more armor but weaker gun (much weaker gun, dont use hellcat in vcoh!!). In fact the M10 had better armor and so it is in BK. The gun was slightly better on hellcat but in BK both guns, M10 wolverine and M18 are equal in strenght.


just as side fact: In vcoh the M10 and M18 deal more damage against tanks as the 76 sherman. The M18 has by far weakest penetration while M10 is very effective against most actually all targets have good pen stats and damage. But just to let you know.


So in BK M18 is weak armored one.

[McCracker42o]

Thanks for explanation guys ... learning more and more everyday.

1 more quick question, I see Tiger dealing splash damage. Does that increase or decrease the damage at all?

[Warhawks97]

Correcting sentence:

vcoh is crap here. In vcoh the Hellcat has more armor but weaker gun (much weaker gun, dont use hellcat in vcoh!!). In fact the M10 had better armor and so it is in BK. The gun was slightly better on hellcat but in BK both guns, M10 wolverine and M18 are equal in strenght.

The hellcat has weaker penetration. It loses a lot more penetration power in vcoh as the M10 and idk why. With equal strenght i did mean equal in damage.

:O we got a math guy over here. Thanks for reply. now understood.

well.... i could tell you my experiences as well but that would have filled a book. I am doing both a lot.... getting experience, testing sometimes and also that math stuff. I just thought that giving you simply the data is a way easier and more accurate to explain you how "lucky" or "unlucky" you got at least regarding penetrations.

Damages and crits are working different again. Guns have min-max damage as well and a certain damage need to be dealed to "activate" a crit chance and what kind of crit.


So sometimes its just mega bad luck and you can do like 3 reat hits on an enemie tank while those turns the turret and oneshots yours (already happend) frontally although the pen chance was pretty low already. Thats then just mega bad luck.