Tigers and Panthers frontal armor

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Hey all, i have 1 question to devs, what are the values of Tiger's and Panther's frontal armor? I noticed that tiger's one is much better, especially against inf doc zooks, it penetrates usually once out of 6 shots what is ok, but panther works strange, recenly my G model was penetraded by inf zooks 7 times in a row (3 shots 3 penetrations, repaired, 3 shots, 1 miss, 2 penetrations, repaired, 3 shots again 2 penetrations and 1 miss). Same to 76mm usa guns, its more easy to penetrate a panther. I mean it should be the opposite, Panther had better front armor in reality, or maybe its just me, have a look at it pls, thx in advance.

[Warhawks97]

Hey all, i have 1 question to devs, what are the values of Tiger's and Panther's frontal armor? I noticed that tiger's one is much better, especially against inf doc zooks, it penetrates usually once out of 6 shots what is ok, but panther works strange, recenly my G model was penetraded by inf zooks 7 times in a row (3 shots 3 penetrations, repaired, 3 shots, 1 miss, 2 penetrations, repaired, 3 shots again 2 penetrations and 1 miss). Same to 76mm usa guns, its more easy to penetrate a panther. I mean it should be the opposite, Panther had better front armor in reality, or maybe its just me, have a look at it pls, thx in advance.

thats not true:

Sherman 76:
Basic penetration:
1/0.84/0.67/0.54

TT modifier against Axis Panther of BK/Luft doc (no skirts):
penetration: x0.35

Penetration chances:
0.35/0.294/0.2345/0.189
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TT modifier against Axis Panther of BK/Luft doc (skirts):
penetration: x0.3
penetration chances:
0.3/0.252/0.201/0.162
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TT modifier against Axis Panther of Terror doc (has skirts from start):
penetration: x0.3

Other modifiers:
penetration: x0.9

Penetration chances:
0.27/0.2268/0.1809/0.1458

Note that with skirts the critical type is also changed so you have a lower chance of getting malfunctions etc...

vs Tiger 76 gun TT is 0.43 (43% pen chance). Makes on max range arround 23% pen chance


HVAP boost is 1.4 modifier.

most funnily: The pen chance vs Tank IV H on max range with HVAP is 54,32. The Tank IV in return has even against easy eight a pen chance of like 78% to penetrate the easy eight using basic AP rounds. Oo..... So much to "76 sherman is as good as Tank IV just cheaper".

That was actually the most surprising thing.


veterancy and commanders on units can change some values. So when you gonna face a Panther with normal 76 sherman and HVAP the chances are low to penetrate the Panther. Commanders and veterancy boosts can increase the chances.

[Krieger Blitzer]

No, the Panther obviously seem to be having a better frontal armor than do Tigers have in Bk exactly as supposed. I even once saw a PantherD bouncing off 2 shells in a row that been fired at it by a SP!! Which is something I never saw any Tiger being able to achieve...

[Warhawks97]

No, the Panther obviously seem to be having a better frontal armor than do Tigers have in Bk exactly as supposed. I even once saw a PantherD bouncing off 2 shells in a row that been fired at it by a SP!! Which is something I never saw any Tiger being able to achieve...

se above... you can see the chances. Panther (esspecially G) is a way harder to penetrate and i also feel so btw.


Just about hendheld AT´s i simply dont know but i guess its same.


rear armor values are better for tiger afaik so side hits count as rear hits may bounce of more frequently from tigers but not sure about the values here.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Ok, i was very unlucky with my Panthers than.

[Devilfish]

How is side armor calculated btw?
Its 50/50 that front/rear values will be considered?
Is it possible to change these chances or is it hardcoded?

[Warhawks97]

How is side armor calculated btw?
Its 50/50 that front/rear values will be considered?
Is it possible to change these chances or is it hardcoded?

not sure. Either its 50:50 chance that a side hit is scored as rear or front hit or- what some belive- that its a "mix" of frontal and rear armor but i think the first is correct. the Panther has probably the greates advantage of it as no other tank had so great effective armor differents from front side armor as the Panther. Thats why the Panther in BK is actually counted as heavy tank as it acts like a heavy with good allround protection.

[MarKr]

You mean when the shot is counted as "rear shot"? Well this picture shows it pretty well:

If a shot hits the Tiger in the green zone, it is counted as a frontal hit, if it hits into the red zone, it is a rear hit.

However it is not only about where the firing tank is. It is about where the shot lands. There are four Shermans in the picture - those which are on the left, right and infront of the Tiger can all score a rear OR fornt hit - depending on whether the shell lands in the green or red zone. Only the Sherman which is directly behind the Tiger will always score rear hit because from that position it is impossible to hit the green zone.

If you meant whether the rear penetration values can be changed, then yes, they have a separate multiplier which is usually set (for most weapons) so high that a hit guarantees a penetration.

[Devilfish]

No, i meant if it is possible to higher the change of rear hit when hitting side armor, which would simulate weak side armor (panthers for instance). From what you explained it is clearly not possible. And is it random where the tank is hit or is it simply matter of position of both tanks?

[MarKr]

I'm not really sure TBH... My theory is that the tank guns target the "center" of the targeted vehicle and there is coded in some scatter so the shell can land on various places. In the picture, even the tanks in the green area have a chance score a rear shot...maybe there is some factor that makes front/rear hits more probable based on the angle/positioning but I don't know this - I've never fooled around these aspects of the game ...