Broken stuff

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Warhawks97
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Broken stuff

Post by Warhawks97 »

Recently kwok told me that i didnt play enough. Which is true since i only have time during certain months in a year or certain days only. However, i played several games over the past 4 days. Several per day over several ours.

I was surprised that at no time during the day i saw anyone online except for Tara, wurf, Volksgren and Erich. But i had lots of random players to play with and to face which was quite interesting.

However, the same things started to piss me off again that would make me leave BK again for a while.


1: 2 CP Howitzer:
1. Like literally, the few games i played with "veterans" or at least players that i knew ended up the same way: Howitzer just after like 5 mins into the battle or even less. In one 2 vs 2 i played my opponent threw everything aggressively against me. He lost a pio squad and two volks squads. However, the CP he got by his losses enabled him to get a 105 howitzer. A 20 mm vehicle and 37 mm AT and other light reinforcments (thx to the new HR spam Meta) could hold the line while he could already start shelling us. The same thing happned in various other games. For real, these 2 CP howitzer is so fucking broken in def doc. Considering that BK needs more CP for a stuh or Luft 2 CP for a F2 Tank IV i feel like a 2 CP howitzer is totally out of place and mind.


2.SE doc:
THX for ruining SE doc. You successfully turned it into a complete no brainer doctrine. Played two 4 vs 4 and in both i faced double SE doc. Having two powerfull off maps for just 3 CP is broken as fuck. It gives this doctrine a flexibiliy on how to spend its first 200 ammp that is beyond any sanity and reason. From then on you just get bombarded by 210 mm nebler, hotchkiss (or both) and towards late game the new 500 MP Hummel is a complete no brainer. 70 ammo, later 60 for a 150 mm barrage? Are you guys gone mad? Who had this fucking idea? Even Priest cost more to build/call and their barrage is just slightly cheaper but delivers far less damage.
The only reason we could overcome the nonstop barrage for rockets was due to the fact that i just clicked on mass rifle squad production. I got two times a ranger squad which died before making contact with enemie troops. They lived for just 8 seconds before a missile whiped them entirely.


3. Grille.
In fucks name WHAT IS THIS THING? Even latest Putin artillery isnt half as effective in Ukraine as this monstrous demon. Its one of those units: "I have no idea what its supposed to be or what its role is, lets just make it super expensive and god like powerfull at the same time."


4. Infantry frustration:
The overall frustration when i somehow try to fight, focus and tec infantry. So many "I can whipe infantry instantly" units in BK.

Just compare these two games to get an idea of what i mean:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRGYJ6X9tVU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYLVEPDQgXo&t=1727s





Thats just my impression after 4 days of nonstop play. There is soooo much stuff abusive stuff available that gets abused each game. I currently try avoid games with so called "established players" because all they do is setting the game on "HR SPAM MODE ENABLED" and rush for the abuse units. New players dont play bad. In fact better than most old players as it seems. They have much better micro and unit controle. But they have one big disadvantage: They have no idea of the most abusive things and tecs. Hence in BK competent players often lose not because they are bad, but they have no idea about Metas, abusive units and Meta teching.
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Krieger Blitzer
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Re: Broken stuff

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

Hummel is available later than Priest, and always loses against it.. the RA Priest is the most superior arty piece in the game when combined by RA spotters. I have never seen a Hummel or Grille being able to take down a Priest, but always the contrary... i dare to say the Priest is the Hummel & Grille hunter.

That said, not denying Grille & Hummel are indeed powerful.. but both combined still lose vs 2 RA Priests... Not to mention Grille & Hummel consume more ammo upkeep. in my opinion, the arty balance is fine as is, and the 2 CP howitzer in Def is compensated by less off-map arty strikes compared to inf & RA docs.

tarakancheg
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Re: Broken stuff

Post by tarakancheg »

we will ALWAYS have meta, if you have problem with it then meta things just have to be the most skill requiring units. Right now every game is
1)Get mid fuel.
2)Spam arty to hold.
3)Get bigger tanks then your opponent
4)trade bigger tank HP for enemy units
5)win because your tank does not die and getting any enemy unit killed and getting a tank out alive to rep it is just the most cost efficent way to play.
Why would i even use inf that gets one shot in attack if i can reveal all enemy positions with a tiger and arty to move forward?
i get it that we should play bigger maps and try to do so. Sadly people prefer to just play la fiere over and over again in 3v3 cuz its easier to hold a narrow corridor and almost impossible to miss airstrikes on such maps. Even AA cant help you sometimes if plane is sent on short parts of a map.
People will always go for easier way to play and i am not blaming them tbh because everyone wants to win while not wasting their time and nerves.
Grille has no cooldown basically and 1shots any inf squad only for 60 muni per barrage BTW. :)
problem with infantry gameplay is that your vet 3+ squad that you kept alive for whole game can just get 1 shot by anything (which i am fine with).
If you find these a problem then make separate topic on that matter or else this will be to hard to keep track about here.

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Warhawks97
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Re: Broken stuff

Post by Warhawks97 »

Krieger Blitzer wrote:
25 Feb 2022, 14:00
Hummel is available later than Priest, and always loses against it.. the RA Priest is the most superior arty piece in the game when combined by RA spotters. I have never seen a Hummel or Grille being able to take down a Priest, but always the contrary... i dare to say the Priest is the Hummel & Grille hunter.
Then you havent seen someone using them properly. The fact that grille can effectively shoot and scoot due to its short but super accurate barrage and low cooldown makes it feel like you are facing an entire artillery batallion.
In any case, if you get pressured while playing artillery heavy you are doomed mostly. But as long as you have someone holding and pushing your artillery will do very well. I saw your kill counts on priests when you used them in your vids, being proud for some 70 inf kills and a few tanks. I think the very few times i had the grille in use i managed to kill more stuff with a single grille than what i usually see from two priests working together. The good thing in grille is: You dont need artillery spotter. You also dont need to wait like two minutes like a priest has to do it whenever it uses these accurate salvos. So priest does has drawbacks: Long salvo making it vulnerable to counter arty and requires artillery spotter which also cost CP´s and require micro. Grille is just "DEACTIVATE BRAIN EVERY 40 OR 50 SECONDS.

And SE? Why using spotters when you can fire nuke artillery. SE in past games was always like this: Build a suicide krad that dodges AT guns, find a suitable juicy target and activate missile storm or HOLLY PURGING FLAMES FROM HEAVEN. Like in one instance in a 4 vs 4 my mate dodged a firestorm at his forward base with his troops (he was brits) and more or less ran out of the death zone. 3 seconds later the next SE dude fired a firestorm on the units that survived the first firestorm. Activate two times firestorm on a brits player and he is literally out of the game.
So essentially the game was nonstop rocket arty spam and once in a while a suicide krad came a long to find a target for a firestorm. I tell you, these type of games are really enjoyable.

That said, not denying Grille & Hummel are indeed powerful.. but both combined still lose vs 2 RA Priests... Not to mention Grille & Hummel consume more ammo upkeep. in my opinion, the arty balance is fine as is, and the 2 CP howitzer in Def is compensated by less off-map arty strikes compared to inf & RA docs.
It is not, considering this thing costs barely more than a mortar. A off map requires vision and consumes so far all the ammo you gained up to this moment. But an artillery piece fires every few seconds at whatever location. Off- maps dont rain down nonstop and dont destroy all your backyards.
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Warhawks97
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Re: Broken stuff

Post by Warhawks97 »

tarakancheg wrote:
25 Feb 2022, 14:27

If you find these a problem then make separate topic on that matter or else this will be to hard to keep track about here.

I think i have created a dozens of topics that are either only refering to inf, tanks, arty or inf-tank balance etc. But no one cares.


And this "play bigger map" stuff works only to a certain degree and mostly if you stick with 1 vs 1 or perhaps 2 vs 2. But anything above that quickly turns artillery games. I think the major flaws are:

1. Its super easy to hold something, esspecially against infantry since there is such a bunch of incredibly deadly inf killer units out there with insanse cost-performance ratios. One shot often means they payed themselves off. Like one second not paying attention, a halftrack with HE comes arround and your inf squad is history, no matter what vet it was.

2. Arty is super quickly and cheaply available. I dont get the devs minds here. They add ammo upkeep and increase barrge cost. Then they add basic ammo income which quickly allows you to allocate so much ammo untill the moment you get your arty unit, that you can fire it like 3 times before ammo becomes an issue. But then again the most powerfull artillery is now super cheap: Grille, 60 ammo per barrage. 13ish upkeep but you have 8 default income so its not a big deal + you dont need any further arty since this single unit is a "one unit battalion" essentially. Same is now true for 210 nebler or Hummel.



Tbh Tara, i really admire how you try not to stick with tank and arty metas. Its really heartwarming watching your games in which you try to make some good use of infantry.
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Krieger Blitzer
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Re: Broken stuff

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

Only thing i can agree on; is the very short cool-down time of the Grille, it could be increased a bit.

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mofetagalactica
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Re: Broken stuff

Post by mofetagalactica »

I would only agree on adding way more barrage cool-down time to every arty unit. Latest changes didn't help at all on making the game less arty related.

Also the anti-emplacement units such as stuh-stupah-scott-sherman105 still cant shot at ungarrisoned defensive emplacements, please fix.

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Redgaarden
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Re: Broken stuff

Post by Redgaarden »

Doesn't really matter that Hummel costs way less than priest since everything else is so expensive. I think it balanced out nicely.

Think Grille is fine as it is. Maybe add a longer cooldown because that thing can fire non-stop I find it's always off cooldown when I click it.

I find that infantry still plays a big role in this game. 210mm nebel will win games if it's not dealt with. But it is super easy to deal with it. As long as you have some kind of arty.
5)win because your tank does not die and getting any enemy unit killed and getting a tank out alive to rep it is just the most cost efficent way to play.
Had a game where enemy kept buying m36 and comets and kept dying to my elephant. It's your own fault buying stuff that dies to one hit. Just because 90% of all vehicles die to 1 hit is no reason to complain.
Rifles are not for fighting. They are for building!

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Warhawks97
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Re: Broken stuff

Post by Warhawks97 »

Redgaarden wrote:
26 Feb 2022, 13:56
Doesn't really matter that Hummel costs way less than priest since everything else is so expensive. I think it balanced out nicely.

So there is no less reason to use anything else but Hummel. You can buy a ~350 MP inf unit and by weapons for ~100 ammo, or wait a bit longer and get a Hummel and two barrages. Honestly, i would always stick with inf+sandbags, perhaps a hetzer or 75 mm Puma and bomb the shit out of everything with my Hummel. The 150 mm field arty in BK is currently broken as fuck, all of them.
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