5.2.9 Beta - Luft Gebirgs and Firefly

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Red
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5.2.9 Beta - Luft Gebirgs and Firefly

Post by Red »

Hello :)

I wanted to share two observations, where I am not sure if they are intended:
  • Luftwaffe Gebirgsjäger:
It was already mentioned previously, but they seem to still get their Buffs from the FJ Lehrkompanie, while having the retreatpoint set to the Hauptsturmführer.
I would be strongly in favor to have the buffs also come from the Hauptsturmführer, since it is my understanding that that was the whole point for removing the Heavy Weapon squad call-in by this officer for Luft.
  • Sherman Firefly:
It seems to me, that a Firefly with Tank Commander in movement mode gets outranged every so slightly by the German 7.5cm tanks (e.g. Panzer IV F2) without tank commander. Is this intentional, and if not, could you check on it?

Thank you!

Consti255
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Re: 5.2.9 Beta - Luft Gebirgs and Firefly

Post by Consti255 »

Meh.
They should retreat to the Luft officier.
Normally you just have Luft,Ab HQ, and Comando captain as officier units when playing these docs.
It would be such a waste of MP ha
Vin 2 command units. You can also unlock the Luft commander after the Gebirgs for 2 CP which leads into the Gebirgs CP upgrade for 2 CP aswell.

So yeah. Set the retreat point to the Luft commander.
Nerf Mencius

Red
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Re: 5.2.9 Beta - Luft Gebirgs and Firefly

Post by Red »

For me, I see it the other way around.
The Hauptsturmführer is necessary anyhow for the 88 Arty, so it makes sense to also link the Gebirgsjäger, which are also in the defensive tree to this officer.
Or we add the 88 Arty ability to the FJ Lehrkompanie, that would be another option I see, but I would personally prefer the first one.
Thinking on the fly, maybe another solution would be, to link both officers to the Gebirgsjäger, but non-overlapping (I believe there is also such a thing with UK officers). But that would not solve the retreat point issue for Consti...

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Krieger Blitzer
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Re: 5.2.9 Beta - Luft Gebirgs and Firefly

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

Wait, the HauptOfficer currently has Victor Target arty in Luft??

Consti255
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Re: 5.2.9 Beta - Luft Gebirgs and Firefly

Post by Consti255 »

Since the SS got removed, there is even less reason of getting the Hauptsurmführer. He buffs normal units like grens and heavy grens. But you almost never use them to a extend playing Luft because you cannot maintain the upkeep for Luft Infantry and normal PE infantry.

See it like that. It would be the same, if 101st AB would retreat to the AB HQ sqaud while 82. retreat to the ranger captain. How senseless is that ?

An yeah, it got the VT already. But it is even more senseless to give him this ability. Because you NEVER get him as Luft doc.

Maybe move the VT to Gebirgs ?
Nerf Mencius

kwok
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Re: 5.2.9 Beta - Luft Gebirgs and Firefly

Post by kwok »

main reason that gebirgs retreat to haupt instead of luft because the gebirgs don't reinforce via paradrop. if you paradrop luft officer in the back line and want to fall back to a reinforce point, you'd rather it go to the haupt. likewise, if you go gebirgs you sometimes dont go for the luft officer but instead the 88 path, you still might want to fall back to a reinforce lcation. 80% of the time people fall back to captain so that they can reinforce from a forward position. does it make sense that you'd fall back to a place where you can't reinforce?

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Krieger Blitzer
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Re: 5.2.9 Beta - Luft Gebirgs and Firefly

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

Gebirgs gain bonuses currently via Luft officer though.

Also, i'm curious what unlock(s) the VT currently require.

Consti255
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Re: 5.2.9 Beta - Luft Gebirgs and Firefly

Post by Consti255 »

kwok wrote:
03 Aug 2021, 04:23
main reason that gebirgs retreat to haupt instead of luft because the gebirgs don't reinforce via paradrop. if you paradrop luft officer in the back line and want to fall back to a reinforce point, you'd rather it go to the haupt. likewise, if you go gebirgs you sometimes dont go for the luft officer but instead the 88 path, you still might want to fall back to a reinforce lcation. 80% of the time people fall back to captain so that they can reinforce from a forward position. does it make sense that you'd fall back to a place where you can't reinforce?
normally, 90% of people getting a medic HT to heal your squads, because the medic ability from the commander has cooldown and takes extra micro to activate (its not ike the new HQ sqaud). When you have a HT, you retreat and you know they gonna be full life again.
So i am highly for a change to let them retreat to the Luft commander. Command units dont get build that much either and forcing a player to build 2 is even more unfair.
Krieger Blitzer wrote:
03 Aug 2021, 08:31
Gebirgs gain bonuses currently via Luft officer though.

Also, i'm curious what unlock(s) the VT currently require.
it gets unlocked by the 88 emplacement CP unlock. In my opinion the VT should be shifted to Gebirgs and swap out the LeIG18 drop. The LeIG drop should be shifted to the Luft Commander require 1 CP or even no CP. The VT takes it place in the CP tree.
BTW. the LeIG 18 drop unlock says you can drop mortars and HMGs aswell via paradrop. But where do you do that ? I couldnt find it.
Nerf Mencius

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Krieger Blitzer
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Re: 5.2.9 Beta - Luft Gebirgs and Firefly

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

Consti255 wrote:
03 Aug 2021, 09:29
BTW. the LeIG 18 drop unlock says you can drop mortars and HMGs aswell via paradrop. But where do you do that ? I couldnt find it.
FJR squad.

I also think Gebrigs should retreat to Luft officer and VT moved to Luft officer, Gebrigs or FJR.

Red
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Re: 5.2.9 Beta - Luft Gebirgs and Firefly

Post by Red »

As a sidenote, the Luftwaffe Pioneers also have the Hauptsturmführer as a retreat point, so if the Hauptsturmführer will be sidelined for PE Luftwaffe, the it would be good if the retreat point for the Luft Pioneers was also be adjusted accordingly.

And since I am going on about the Luftwaffe, the Wirbelwind can only assume AA position if HE is there. This is kind of strange, one builds an mobile AA gun, and then has to invest 50 ammo in order to make it AA capable. Is this intentional? I do not recall other AA guns having this requirement.

Red
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Re: 5.2.9 Beta - Luft Gebirgs and Firefly

Post by Red »

Bumping this issue, in the 5.3.1 Beta, the Gebirgsjäger still have the Hauptsturmführer (or the retreat point set by him) as the retrat point, while not getting any (visible) buffs from him.
Having to buy a 400MP unit just to get a retreat point (other than the HQ) for Gebirgs is not viable in most games.

Additionally, Luftwaffe Pioneers also still have the Hauptsturmführer as a retreat point.

Proposal:
Have the Hauptsturmführer provide buffs to Gebirgsjäger. Those buffs should be non-overlapping with the Lehrkompanie (similar to UK officers), so that no double-buff is possible.
Set the retret point for the Luftwaffe Pioneers to the same as other Fallschirmjägers.

Consti255
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Re: 5.2.9 Beta - Luft Gebirgs and Firefly

Post by Consti255 »

Red wrote:
09 Aug 2021, 18:55
As a sidenote, the Luftwaffe Pioneers also have the Hauptsturmführer as a retreat point, so if the Hauptsturmführer will be sidelined for PE Luftwaffe, the it would be good if the retreat point for the Luft Pioneers was also be adjusted accordingly.

And since I am going on about the Luftwaffe, the Wirbelwind can only assume AA position if HE is there. This is kind of strange, one builds an mobile AA gun, and then has to invest 50 ammo in order to make it AA capable. Is this intentional? I do not recall other AA guns having this requirement.
Well the Luft pios should retreat to the FSR Leader,
Aswell as the Gebirgs IMO. Since you still can just build a retreat point for them aswell.
Nerf Mencius

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MarKr
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Re: 5.2.9 Beta - Luft Gebirgs and Firefly

Post by MarKr »

This is literally why it hasn't been changed either way. Some say Gebirgs should be tied to Hauptman, the others say to FS Leader. Since they don't reinforce from air, I would be more inclined to just making them retreat to and get bonuses from Hauptsturmdude. But them people will cry why they are connected to the Fallshirm leader and why they require the Luft Pios if they are not part of the paradrop branch. They will also complain that needing HSF for bonuses and retreat is for Gebirgs a nerf because in Luft you get mainly the Fallshirm leader.
Red wrote:
09 Aug 2021, 18:55
And since I am going on about the Luftwaffe, the Wirbelwind can only assume AA position if HE is there. This is kind of strange, one builds an mobile AA gun, and then has to invest 50 ammo in order to make it AA capable. Is this intentional? I do not recall other AA guns having this requirement.
It is intentional and it is the same for Ostwind, too. Ostwind and Wirblewind are as AA more effective than other AA units (iirc, in AA mode they have about 30% or 50% (not sure now) more "DPS" than other AA units) and this extra performance is locked behind the upgrade. If you need just a normal AA unit that can go to AA mode immediately, you can get the Opel Blitz.
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Mood
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Re: 5.2.9 Beta - Luft Gebirgs and Firefly

Post by Mood »

I think you should connect Gebirs to the Haupt, because as you mentioned they don't reinfoce via air anymore.
Why are certain people upset with this suggestion though? Do the devs have to remake the Luftwaffe tree just to place Gebirs elsewhere or something?

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mofetagalactica
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Re: 5.2.9 Beta - Luft Gebirgs and Firefly

Post by mofetagalactica »

Mood wrote:
03 May 2022, 19:05
I think you should connect Gebirs to the Haupt, because as you mentioned they don't reinfoce via air anymore.
Why are certain people upset with this suggestion though? Do the devs have to remake the Luftwaffe tree just to place Gebirs elsewhere or something?
Well.. some of the cp upgrades for Gerbs are weirdly placed in the para tree, you don't have any option than unlock fallchs to get Gebirs upgrades... So a rework of some parts of that tree wouldn't be that bad.

Consti255
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Re: 5.2.9 Beta - Luft Gebirgs and Firefly

Post by Consti255 »

mofetagalactica wrote:
05 May 2022, 04:33
Mood wrote:
03 May 2022, 19:05
I think you should connect Gebirs to the Haupt, because as you mentioned they don't reinfoce via air anymore.
Why are certain people upset with this suggestion though? Do the devs have to remake the Luftwaffe tree just to place Gebirs elsewhere or something?
Well.. some of the cp upgrades for Gerbs are weirdly placed in the para tree, you don't have any option than unlock fallchs to get Gebirs upgrades... So a rework of some parts of that tree wouldn't be that bad.
agreed.
I hate it when i have to unlock the Luft commander when i want to play more defensively with Gebirgs and emplacements. I just want the bonuses and not the officer.
Nerf Mencius

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