5.2.9 Beta Feedback

[Consti255]

After playing 5-6 games with my brother i think i have now an idea how this patch is gonna work and what should be changed and what should stay.

General:

-Sniper limitation. I like the limitation of snipers. In my opinion snipers in double packs shouldnt be your main line defense. Double snipers were
anoying to face against and how better the players get, the smaller the counters go. Ive discussed it on the Discord already and i am big fan of the
limitation.

PE:

- SE changes are great! and nothing wrong with any of them but i think there are still issues with SE. Even after the changes (flame Bundles, firestorm which is basicly damn sweet in the doc, Flamethrowers etc.)

-Elephant/Nashorn is also a great choice for SE. SE got plenty of fuel available and i think that the Nashorn in general consumes more fuel than one Elephant over time. So choosing before the game gives you more room to play. Do you wanna be more agressive = elephant, do you wanna be more defensive = Nashorn

- 50mm mortar? i love it. Especially in Luft doc which had basicly no early arty/mortar support in the early/mid/late stages. The tracers should be removed tho, since it can camo and it makes the whole camo thing pointless.

CW:

- Canadian Name change. YES FINALLY!! Now we have more room to play arround in this doc and it is now free from "we cannot add it since it makes no sense in an arty doc".

- Sherman HE changes. one word. BEAUTIFUL. Now Canadians can be played as really agressive doc with HE shermans combined with canadians. You are not forced into the late game like before. And you can actually play out your possible fuel advantage in the early game. Before you were forced to build 17pounders and arty to make pressure.

What could be made better?

Assault Pios
-I still think Assault pios are too weak in terms of scaling. They have such low health that they are not viable of throwing the flame bundle where the changes were made, in the mid to late game. Even with the whole upgrades like better exp and more troop size they still gonna be obliterated by allied counter parts. Maybe add a upgrade in the PE WSC that makes them to SS pios with more HP and a little better vet gain or even new weapon loudouts (more stgs? ). This upgrade should stay behind logistic upgrade tier, or some CP upgrades like Flaming materials, because Assault pios are pretty strong early but just lack scaling.
I know you Devs dont wanted to flat buff assault pios but in exchange of that just remove the assault grens from SE as a whole to keep things balanced for infantry as SE. (you still have the SS sqaud which basicly is a sqaud of assault grens on steriods and it is now faster to get.)

Hummel & Boobytraps/strategic Points
- the Hummel is still way to nische and too expensive to use. Ive spoken with Markr about it already. Perhaps buff the heavy ammo transport CP upgrade so it is costing no ammo and provides more ammo discount for nearby units. Perhabs make it cost 2 CP and buff it clearly and make boobytraps or strategic points disable available for 1 CP. (i think boobytraps for 1 CP is enough.)

Sandbags from Panzergrens in SE
-Panzergrens loose the ability to build sandbags right after you picked SE. Picking SE directly is a must in my opinion if you wanna play it, since you can do so much with AP mines and Schwimm flame traps right in the beginning.
I think just swapping out the trench for Sandbags should do it. Noone builds trenches that early into the game. Sandbags are way more essential. In the later stages you still have assault pios to build trenches.

Mortar Bunker
-everytime i went for the mortar bunker ive felt there was something missing. So i thought about a retreat point to it for Pgrens and Assault Pios. Working the same as the Glider oder ABHQ. Making it more attractive to rush when winning to fortify your won ground.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

I’d suggest to swap Hummel with Wespe in TH doc.

This arty has no purpose in SE, as you have 210mm nebel and Hotchkiss for heavy defenses destruction. TH on the other hand badly lacks means of dealing with heavy camping.

[Consti255]

mhhh. I feel like the Hummel is one of the designated units of SE and should stay there.
Also giving a doc with the heavyst tanks also the strongest SPG is kinda nuts.
I mean the heavy ammo HT is a pretty late unlock so it can get a significant buff in my opinion.
lowering the ammo per salvo by at leased 40-50 ammo is a big deal.

The Ammo fuel swap could also get a buff. Now it is 100:100 and it should atleased go to 100 fuel for 150 ammo.

[Warhawks97]

The assault Pios could get some sort of special CP unlock in SE doc that buffs them in some ways (stats, abilities.. idk).

I wouldnt mind seeing the Hummel moving to TS doctrine to be honest. In that i agree with sukin.

About ammo Halftracks in SE i wouldnt even mind when this feature is being removed in general. I am not sure what kind of buffs ammo halftracks give to artillery units or if they give them any. But parking a Ammo HT near a artillery unit should always lead to a reduced cooldown of the barrage ability since this was the actual purpose of ammo carriers in general. If the Hummel moves to TS doc i think the ammo HT unlock could be removed since it would only affect the Wespe which isnt all that expensive (in case the barrage cost go back to 50 rather than 80 which it costs in TS doc).

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

mhhh. I feel like the Hummel is one of the designated units of SE and should stay there.
Also giving a doc with the heavyst tanks also the strongest SPG is kinda nuts.
I mean the heavy ammo HT is a pretty late unlock so it can get a significant buff in my opinion.
lowering the ammo per salvo by at leased 40-50 ammo is a big deal.

The Ammo fuel swap could also get a buff. Now it is 100:100 and it should atleased go to 100 fuel for 150 ammo.

SPG’s are imo dead as a class since the introduction of new BK and ammo upkeep. I haven’t seen any of them besides CW Priests.

US Priest is locked behind dozens of CP

Wespe is in a very bad place in TH command tree + it’s extremely underwhelming when dealing with emplacements.

Hummel doesn’t really serve any purpose in SE + the barrage price is insane considering the ammo upkeep. Moreover, Hotchkiss and 210 nebel do the job better. In TH Hummel limited to 1 would be a great addition to the mechanized army as a heavy defense destroyer.

In general, I see that the rocket arty runs the show now. It has much higher dps and most of the time causes way more damage then SPG’s. Wespe and Hummel without vet have very low chances to destroy a 17p emplacements with one barrage for instance. While Maultier or Walking Stuka would take it out easily.

To explain my point better - I started playing BK again in December, and I haven’t seen any Hummels, US Priests or Wespe since then.

[Warhawks97]

To explain my point better - I started playing BK again in December, and I haven’t seen any Hummels, US Priests or Wespe since then.

Pretty much the same for me. I saw one Hummel and one Wespe. Both used by me. Wespe however was fruitless and only depleted my ammo. But rocket arty is the way to go at the moment.

SPGS have lower dps, cost more and their range got nerfed down to 180 range. Stationary howitzers shoot further, faster and have two more shots per salvo.


I would add Stationary modes to the SPGs to increase the rof. And when a Ammo HT gets placed nearby they will fire 8 instead of 6 shots. Their range could be easily 200 as it used to be.
Also certain limits like the one Priest in inf doc is kinda stupid since this thing is locked behind tons of CP anyways while costing over 500 MP.



The Grille is the only one being used extensively due to its 40 second cooldown, low barrage cost combined with insane damage and accuracy. That thing really melts down shit. I would like to see this one more in a role like the 95 mm churchill. Close range indirect and direct fire support.

But all other SPGs are quite literally dead at the moment.

[Red]

From my point of view, a good piece of Arty in Tank Support would make this doctrine overpowered, as it already has the srtongest tanks in the arsenal.

As for the SPGs, I do not know about the US Priest, but the Canadian one with Phosphor rounds is really good in my opinion.
What I would suggest to Wespe and Hummel is to add different spread patterns, a tighter one and a wider one. That would proably add a lot of usefulness.

The thing with the rockets is, that they do not hit all that well (at least I have not figured out how to). So you can easily use 3 salvos to hit one emplacement.

[Consti255]

Rocket arty just comes pretty much instant + at a low cost.
I feel like the 210mm Nebel is even worse than the 150mm cause it got way more upkeep and salvo cost as the 150mm.
On top SE needs a F*ck ton of ammo to spend so you have even less for arty strikes.

[Consti255]

BTW, while you guys where discussing over SPGs and there usefullness.. When you say Rocket arty is better than SPGs, why not give Luft the wasp, while giving PS the hotchkiss back? Give it more CD or maybe less shots per salvo to balance it out.

[MarKr]

Panthers, fallshirms, gebirgs, 88s, airstrikes including henschels and also the Wespe on top of that? Sounds OP as hell.

[Leenday]

Didn't play but read the notes and one thing is a little bit questionable

- Changed the 122mm Offmap to first shoot 30 HE shells in a radius of "55" and then a salvo of 25 smoke shells (from 30 HE shells in a radius of 70)

So, first of all, I absolutely love the idea, but the thing is doesn't it help the enemies you just hit?
In Steel Division and such it would work perfectly: nuke, smoke, storm. In CoH it just lays a defensive buff or am I missing something idk

[MarKr]

Units in smoke are harder to hit and get suppressed slower but also have their own accuracy lowered and suppress stuff a lot slower. So it would allow you to bombard enemy position and then close in relatively safely even when the survivors start shooting back.

[Consti255]

Panthers, fallshirms, gebirgs, 88s, airstrikes including henschels and also the Wespe on top of that? Sounds OP as hell.

yeah basicly. But i think in general the Wespe is a little bit off right now. I am just brainstorming. But i dont really have an idea where to put it.