SAS Insta-Smoke Needs to Go

[Walderschmidt]

They throw the smoke, instant cover and disappear, and don't appear to have accuracy penalities.

SAS squads can solo tanks even if they rush right in front of the tank. They don't get punished and when they get vet and the bonii stack, not even HE kills them. The only thing that reliably hurts them is snipers, but against brits with their iwinvssnipers button (THAT HAS MORE RANGE THAN THE SNIPER!!!!), snipers are a dumb, super-micro intensive play with little pay-off.

It needs to be smoke that somebody throws, like any other grenade.

It's an I-Win button.

Wald

[Sparrow]

They throw the smoke, instant cover and disappear, and don't appear to have accuracy penalities.

SAS squads can solo tanks even if they rush right in front of the tank. They don't get punished and when they get vet and the bonii stack, not even HE kills them. The only thing that reliably hurts them is snipers, but against brits with their iwinvssnipers button (THAT HAS MORE RANGE THAN THE SNIPER!!!!), snipers are a dumb, super-micro intensive play with little pay-off.

It needs to be smoke that somebody throws, like any other grenade.

It's an I-Win button.

Wald

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4353&sid=b9fb419a1 ... 91c57e19eb

in these link are good suggestions about this

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

I haven’t experienced similar problems against SAS, you just have to react quick and drive your tank back, so that SAS leaves the smoke in order to get into the shooting distance.

[MarKr]

Do you have any replay showing the "disappearing" in action? I just tried it in the game and they were still visible and targetable (enemy units still fired at them). They are harder to hit in the smoke and cannot be suppressed but also suffer 50% accuracy nerf for 14 seconds after they activate the ability but nothing seems to be making them go invisible.

[Walderschmidt]

Do you have any replay showing the "disappearing" in action? I just tried it in the game and they were still visible and targetable (enemy units still fired at them). They are harder to hit in the smoke and cannot be suppressed but also suffer 50% accuracy nerf for 14 seconds after they activate the ability but nothing seems to be making them go invisible.

I’ll try to take videos of my last replay when I get home tonight.

Wald

[Consti255]

i think its fine if you lay the smoke behind the passive CP unlock for the SAS since they come so early now. No paradroped 2 CP unit which has heavy AT capabilitys should have the ability to break supression that early into the game. (101st and FsR5 cant aswell).

[MarKr]

If the issue is that they hit stuff from the smoke, a solution could also be to just increase the accuracy nerf they get in the smoke to -75% (or actually even -90% would be possible) instead of -50%. If tanks get 75% accuracy nerf shooting into the smoke, no reason they shouldn't get the same nerf shooting from the smoke.

[Consti255]

agreed

[Warhawks97]

i would put it behind some cp. Storms unlock crawl, rangers and 82nd unlock their ambush capabilties. I think that would be the best way. Lock it behind some combat training unlock and its fine.

[CroW_TaTToo]

If the issue is that they hit stuff from the smoke, a solution could also be to just increase the accuracy nerf they get in the smoke to -75% (or actually even -90% would be possible) instead of -50%. If tanks get 75% accuracy nerf shooting into the smoke, no reason they shouldn't get the same nerf shooting from the smoke.

really 90%??? why you just take out the sas scuand and finish this matter. the smoke have been there a long time ago so now that the axis cant rush the panzer spam and wipe out an entire scuand whith one shot is inconvinient o please they just need to learn hoy to play against it i have played whit players that use the panzer 3 smoke the same as the sas scuand and i dont see anyone complaining about that.

what really need to be fixed is the of map artillery of the alliend faction is unefective and dont kill 3 on top of a donkey is oly for scearing the infantry and tanks. i have seen 2 bombs hitting a house 2 time and no one inside killed same whit the tanks bombs hiting the top of the tank and almos none damge wtf is a antillery the 57mil at does more damge than that

They throw the smoke, instant cover and disappear, and don't appear to have accuracy penalities.

SAS squads can solo tanks even if they rush right in front of the tank. They don't get punished and when they get vet and the bonii stack, not even HE kills them. The only thing that reliably hurts them is snipers, but against brits with their iwinvssnipers button (THAT HAS MORE RANGE THAN THE SNIPER!!!!), snipers are a dumb, super-micro intensive play with little pay-off.

It needs to be smoke that somebody throws, like any other grenade.

It's an I-Win button.

Wald

you just need to play a lil better mate

EDIT by MarKr:
Last three posts merged into one. No need to write 3 posts when you can put all the info into 1. Use the "Edit" button next time

[MarKr]

really 90%??? why you just take out the sas scuand and finish this matter. the smoke have been there a long time ago so now that the axis cant rush the panzer spam and wipe out an entire scuand whith one shot is inconvinient o please they just need to learn hoy to play against it i have played whit players that use the panzer 3 smoke the same as the sas scuand and i dont see anyone complaining about that.

Yes, PIII smoke uses smoke and tanks shooting at the PIII IN the smoke have 20% or less chance to hit the tank. When the SAS shoots FROM the smoke, they have over 35% chance to hit a target...explain this logic to me, please.

what really need to be fixed is the of map artillery of the alliend faction is unefective and dont kill 3 on top of a donkey is oly for scearing the infantry and tanks. i have seen 2 bombs hitting a house 2 time and no one inside killed same whit the tanks bombs hiting the top of the tank and almos none damge wtf is a antillery the 57mil at does more damge than that

Artillery of ALL factions works this way. Arty shot needs to hit the tank directly to deal a lot of damage. "Near hits" do very little. Arty is anti-infantry and anti-emplacement thing, not "anti-everything". Same goes for bombs. They are not in the game to kill tanks but to kill infantry or to make a whole into emplacement line. You have rocket planes and Henschels for killing tanks. We increased the bomb damage vs tanks on direct hit in the beta but still - don't use bombs as your main way to kill tanks.

Arty of Allies and planes have have nothing to do with SAS. If you want to discuss this more, please, do so in a thread that already discusses this or start a new one if there is any thread about this topic. It helps to keep the discussion focused on individual topics. Thanks.

[H.Drescher]

i would put it behind some cp. Storms unlock crawl, rangers and 82nd unlock their ambush capabilties. I think that would be the best way. Lock it behind some combat training unlock and its fine.

Since RAF is suppose to be a scaling faction with the best infantry in the game, this suggestion is the one that makes the most sense. Their smoke should be locked behind a defensive CP in order to emphasize this.

I also play a fuck ton of RAF, I do not have success with launching Piats and Bazookas from smoke at tanks.

However: It should also be noted that these are projectiles. Projectiles are not affected too much from smoke and their slight deviance means they can still hit even if their roll was a miss. For hitscan weapons though, this is not the case.

[Consti255]

isnt that i said it 3 times now.