Do any PvP players not upgrade as a tactic?

[trackday]

I don't pvp, but I just started winning some PvE games on extreme without upgrading, i.e. not building the tank depot and not selecting a skill tree. Is this a tactic any PvP players use? More points early game used on building machine gunners, MG emplacements, 37mm anti-tank guns, and just denying the enemy resources to build much.

[MenciusMoldbug]

I personally do not get armored skirts on stugs and sometimes panzer 4's because 50 ammunition is a lot that can be spent into much better things. At the end of the day, when you start a PvP game, you are on a timer, and you only get so many resources per minute that you have to decide what are you going to prioritize in getting. It's like deciding whether you want to spam relatively cheap panzer 4's or get the huge factory eaters that are the Tiger 1's in hearts of iron 4.

Personally, against the AI, I would do the same thing, conserve as much resources as possible for efficient use for other things, like saving ammunition for airstrikes or artillery. It's just a better way to play for me, but I can understand people who just like to overkill stuff (and I do that in RPG games because why not, it's fun).

[kwok]

I think he's talking about tiering. In which case, for PvP tiering at the low to mid levels is probably the most prevalent strategy to winning.
PvP players will likely hold at least one consistent source of fuel and then convert it into an upgrade early. Then they will attack when the opponent will have no counterable units on the field. For example, if you over invested into 37mm AT guns how will you stop stugs that will arrive within 15 minutes of the game? The game will probably end at minute 15 if you did not upgrade. Meanwhile in PvE, the AI won't tier up and get stugs until much later in the game so the 37mm will suffice until the 25 minute mark.

At higher levels you start to see players trading some of their fast tiering to double down into some sort of early game advantage but that usually means to suppress the opponent so hard in the early game that it makes it impossible for a come back into the late game. For example, fielding many light vehicles and early tanks to completely knock a player off the map/fuel so that late game upgrading becomes so late that it's not even a worry.

Best way to see for yourself is either to check out the numerous replays posted on the forum or trying pvp yourself. If you're looking to get into PvP, just send me a message on discord (kwok#2996). I can potentially find you another new person to play against or help coach you up.

[Warhawks97]

Thats a good point. It depends on my enemie, mates and faction and doctrine.

WH
As WH i quite often dont full tec that fast. As BK i rush for stugs and Panzer IV´s. The reaosn for this is that most of the time your axis mates will just sit there and wait for tigers, panthers and jagdpanthers. So I try to be the guy making pressure earlier so that my mates heavies hit the field under best possible circumstances. Usually, when i also only sit there waiting for tigers and Panthers, we lose it.

So i invest heavier early to mid game usually as WH but also as PE.

As prop doc i rush lots of cheap inf and boost them. My teammates usually rush panthers anyways so why investing in own tigers? I better support those with cheap inf, arty and sector propaganda when i have all the mun. But what i do is to max tec my HQ simply for the sake of the officer off map arty strike. Its super helpfull in this doctrine. Works as an power amplifier for your cheap inf.


But one thing thats stupid in WH is the "tec gap" between Panzer Iv tec stage and heavier sutff. You can decide to spend 100 fuel and more to unlock panthers/Tigers and your enemie will have a 17 pdr by that time. Or you spend this into 3 cheap Panzer IV J´s as a time when your enemie only has a 6 pdr and finish the game.

PE

As PE the tec is a bit easier as WH and more fluid. Like you only have one tec that also requires time (logistic company upgrade) but then you are free to build everything. There i usually get at least one of the two heavier buildings (Luft only has one anyways) because i either get super usefull jagdpanzers out of it or wirbelwind or panzer IV´s. Also the tec from Panzer IV to Tiger/Panther is jst 75 fuel. So its some sort (oh, i have the fuel, lets upgrade it). As TS doc i have not teced beyond Panzer IV´s most of the time. Instead i went for inf being faster near vehicles and got lots of them. Cheap P IV F versios, cheaper vehicles and vehcle arty etc. Most others rush TS doc for panthers. I have never ever build any of them. But as said, i usually buff my inf and add some cheap and attach some effective AT options to them rather than rushing only heavy stuff. I currently like the combo of cheap grens fighting along with cheap vehicles and cheap jagdpanzer IV´s while boosting each other.



US:
As US i usually go basically always full tec. If you dont get the supply yard and field more units to cap more ground you will still fall behind your opponent in terms of ressources due to upkeep. So supply yard is a must have and that also means almost full tec. The tank depot is just 300 MP and 50 fuel away from then on so you can just as well get it too. The m10 becomes a must have sooner or later anways due to enemie combo of Tanks and rocket arty that you cant withtstand without any. Also the tank depot upgrade makes your stuart, chaffe and M16 and M15a1 cheaper by 30 MP. So just get that one too. On top of that having a Sherman is always a good thing to have in your backyard that helps you to handle enemie inf.

So, Supply yard, more streamlined tec system when compared to Wh and the importance of shermans and m10 is what makes me go full tec with this factions pretty much always. I see tons of AB and inf players getting supply yard very late and thus being unable to stand a chance against the axis push in the long run.



CW:
I am not so experienced anymore with CW as i once used to be, but get full tec. The trucks are usefull reinforcment points and also OP points, I dont see why not to get them. When you put a truck on a fuel point, you wont have too many issues with fuel anyways. Also cromwells and esspecially 17 pdr tanks become a must have anyways sooner or later. The sooner you have one, the less issues you will have with all the german medium tanks which would slaughter your expensive infantry just like that.

[trackday]

I had to check, the Motor Pool gives us the 57mm AT, which gives pretty solid protection with 2 or 3 of them plus armor piercing ammo. Expanded production gives the 76mm gun, so that's as far as necessary to upgrade it seems like under this scenario, avoiding the supply yard, tank depot, and all associated upgrade costs.

Thanks for the replies, all good fun.

[Warhawks97]

I had to check, the Motor Pool gives us the 57mm AT, which gives pretty solid protection with 2 or 3 of them plus armor piercing ammo. Expanded production gives the 76mm gun, so that's as far as necessary to upgrade it seems like under this scenario, avoiding the supply depot, tank depot, and all associated upgrade costs.

Thanks for the replies, all good fun.

dont avoid the supply yard for too long. Srsly. Just to build it drops your upkeep for units so that you are at least partly on WH lvl. When you got the fuel to build it and have no intentions to get any tanks soon, BUILD IT. Its a strong advise i give to everyone.