Sniper Camo Modification

[Walderschmidt]

What if we removed crawl camo from snipers until they get vet 1 or 2?

That way, at least, a player has to use them with some some sort of skill before he turns into a master of camo. I mean, any idiot can hide behind a fence or hedge, but it takes someone who is experienced and savvy to move undetected in open terrain.

I think this change, more than anything, would make snipers more challenging to use properly, without making them astronomically hard to use.

I also think that veterancy is an under-used mechanic for rewarding players. Hell, I'd want to gate off any rewarding mechanics that are easy to use but tough to counter behind veterancy, like camo for units.

What do you guys think about this idea?

Wald

[crazzy501]

Like this

[Walderschmidt]

That makes two of us.

How do other people feel about this?

Wald

[Diablo]

Mh it might work as intended. But since this would be a straight up nerf, what do you suppose to counter the change? A slight price reduction?

Also regarding this:

I also think that veterancy is an under-used mechanic for rewarding players. Hell, I'd want to gate off any rewarding mechanics that are easy to use but tough to counter behind veterancy, like camo for units.

I like the design of the new Fallschirm HQ squad, unlocking a strong ability at vet 3 (2nd Stuka) feels incredibly rewarding and powerful. But its fairly difficult since the 3-man squad is a bit squishy.

[Walderschmidt]

Mh it might work as intended. But since this would be a straight up nerf, what do you suppose to counter the change? A slight price reduction?

Also regarding this:

I also think that veterancy is an under-used mechanic for rewarding players. Hell, I'd want to gate off any rewarding mechanics that are easy to use but tough to counter behind veterancy, like camo for units.

I like the design of the new Fallschirm HQ squad, unlocking a strong ability at vet 3 (2nd Stuka) feels incredibly rewarding and powerful. But its fairly difficult since the 3-man squad is a bit squishy.

I would start off with making them between 270-300 manpower. That way they're not so dear a cost to lose, but not so cheap that everyone wants to spam them.

Initially, I thought of making them 300 mp, and then after a certain tech level unlock (T3/T4) making them 270mp.

What do you think about that?

For Wehrmacht and Americans, this would be a nerf, but for British and PE, it would be a straight up buff.

Wald

[Warhawks97]

How do other people feel about this?

why not. i dont mind. Its not really changing the way i use snipers, so... And getting them to vet 1 isnt that hard.

Initially, I thought of making them 300 mp, and then after a certain tech level unlock (T3/T4) making them 270mp.

Thats actually something that could be tested out further with other units as well. Instead of having doc unlocks that drops cost, cost changes would be linked with the tecing system.

It is working with M16, Greyhound a few other units already.

[Walderschmidt]

why not. i dont mind. Its not really changing the way i use snipers, so... And getting them to vet 1 isnt that hard.

It'd either be vet 1 or vet 2. It's not about taking the ability out of the game (because let's face it, who takes all that time to level up a sniper to vet 4 or 5 when not doing sniper spam?). It's about using a little bit of veterancy to make it so that an easy use, convenient ability is earned, not just given. And this makes one have to earn it for each unit, not just unlock a CP ability.

Initially, I thought of making them 300 mp, and then after a certain tech level unlock (T3/T4) making them 270mp.

Thats actually something that could be tested out further with other units as well. Instead of having doc unlocks that drops cost, cost changes would be linked with the tecing system.

It is working with M16, Greyhound a few other units already.

This is something I'd like to do with support weapons like MGs, mortars, snipers, AT guns, and small howitzers to make them more viable late game. Kind of like how in AoE 2, games that take long enough end in trash wars, with occasional strong units being made and used carefully to help tip the balance. I want to avoid something like tanks only...similar to how Supreme Commander can get late game or with too many mods (it turns into T4 experimentals only).

Wald

[Warhawks97]

This is something I'd like to do with support weapons like MGs, mortars, snipers, AT guns, and small howitzers to make them more viable late game. Kind of like how in AoE 2, games that take long enough end in trash wars, with occasional strong units being made and used carefully to help tip the balance. I want to avoid something like tanks only...similar to how Supreme Commander can get late game or with too many mods (it turns into T4 experimentals only).

Wald

Yeah, kind of the fundamental basics get cheaper a bit in long trash games to keep them usefull and worth to build. I mean, why should anyone ever build an HMG again when he gets a tank or multirole elite combat unit for the same price.

You should make a topic about that.

For WH such things could easily be added for each HQ upgrade, for US such things can be linked to supply yard and its upgrades. CW and PE will be a more difficult to implement but should somehow be possible as well.

[CGarr]

I'd love this change, snipers are a headache and I've gotten to the point that I play PE 90% of the time just so I have the stupid SS squad to counter them, and even that isn't a great solution if there are multiple.

[TANEBIRD]

Snipers are a pain in the ass, I feel like if you take away their camo ability, it would be nice to give them something in exchange, maybe a little a little more health?