Beta 5.2.2 First Reactions

[Warhawks97]

@Markr:

What i hated most was that you fail to hit even from pretty close ranges. I had tanks dancing arround a single hetzer and kept failing.

The long range accuracy should get fixed.



The pen against these two tanks was quite ok.

They dont get spammed like F´s or even Tank IV H or J and they dont fuck up everything in their path like Tank IV´s do so spamming hetzers would have meant little to no anti infantry power and thus any hard push was doomed to fail anyways.


Hetzer was OP back then due to the TH mass production where each cost just 400 MP and Zimmerit boost making it super resilient to damage.


When this got fixed things got mcuh better.
In short that means there is no Hetzer JP/IV mass production anymore.
No Zimmerit
No more 2-3 ambush shots
No more Hetzer along luftwaffe infantry.



What i would have made instead:
Fix long range accuracy of most guns.
Just slightly increasep pen chances to somwhere arround 60% against hetzer and a bit more than that against IV/48.





The main issue US had to handle in beta was the never ending waves of cheap Tank IV´s that killed inf and tanks alike. But their armor remained quite strong afterall compared to axis TD.


Anyway. That were just might thoughts.

During the beta phase i didnt see hetzers at all if i recall correctly and barely Jagdpanzer IV/48. I used them by my own in def doc but using them wasnt easy as they cost i think 500 MP or so and being pure anti tank.

So i was always in short supply and unable to spam them since i had to always get enough anti inf stuff as well. And the Möbelwagen for example is also 500 MP expensive.

[Constantino]

Agree with Warhawks 100%. I always found that the problem with the 76mm gun was against spamable Panzer IV's; I never had a problem with Hetzer or Jagdpanzers. For the sake of realism and balance 76mm gun should perform way better against Panzer IV's than Hetzer/Jagdpanzers as the Panzer IV has worse armor in RL. Additionally, as you mentioned, tank hunters are more specialized in what they do so they need to be able to reliably kill tanks to be worth buying.

I also agree with an increase to tank gun accuracy. I think a universal increase to 0.85 would be good for gameplay to reduce inconsistency due to chance. It would also be realistic with regarding to guns like the 76mm and 90mm as they are actually more accurate than the 17 pounder which gets 0.85.

[F31.58]

no, shermans and pz4 should be on same level

[Warhawks97]

no, shermans and pz4 should be on same level

Which Pz IV? D,E,F,H,J?

Do you know how many PZ IV versions exists? Its basically a whole new tank.


I think its not fair when the german Jagdpanzers have gotten such massive holes in their armor while the real problem was the endless stream of cheap Tank IV´s.

So, armor wise German TD ´s should have better armor than Panzer IV F2, not same. Both, for gameplay and realistic reasons. The F2 offered virtually no protection against the allied guns of 1944, not even those of 43.
And in game the F2 does not require CP´s and costs much less than for example the Jagdpanzer IV/48 and can handle more threats. So for gameplay reasons its nonsense to have CP costing not so cheap TD´s on the same armor level than 0 CP super cheap F2.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Agreed with Hawks as well, the Axis TDs aren't meant to have weak armor protection.. specifically when a Hetzer costs 3 CPs (in addition to the other nerfs Hawks has listed above) and so far comparing tanks "statistically with Corsix numbers" does not reflect the whole picture.. as i believe there are many other factors into this, such as the CP requirement, lack of turrets, mobility, etc.

[mofetagalactica]

I've played a few games on the beta, everything seems pretty good i like the new changes to 76mm/75mm and AB, it finally feels like you have a little more chances to go 50% 50% againts pz4 H/J and TD's (if they're not in cammo).

Can you find a way to make Chaffe a little more viable? Maybe get rid of the reward or make it a little bit cheapper? 400MP is kind of excesive for a light tank.

The new straffe run seems kind of OP since it feels like it has 100% kill chance inside his zone (but i was informed that it has the same "stats" than the luft strafe).

And btw this didn't made PZ4's and TD's useless at all, they still having the same pen stats against shermans and are pretty cheap/spammable. At least it kind of forces axis to play a little more with mediums if the enemy gets a bunch of 76's, and the panther is a little bit harder to get as BK now since the fuel trade swapped place with MP trade wich is good.

[F31.58]

no, shermans and pz4 should be on same level

Which Pz IV? D,E,F,H,J?
Do you know how many PZ IV versions exists? Its basically a whole new tank.

I still stick to the idea of manually upgrading the series of Panzers, with them having small differences in cost and stats.
F2 should be mobile version of H series, being fast enough to hunt down or at least trying catching more light vehicles, but would be vurnable lot by 37mm and 57mm AT guns, as well as to Stuarts, Chaffees and Sherman short-barreled. Against light vehicles it will anyway will have more HP and more damage and comparing to short barreled damage it will be a 50/50% chances.
Any series higher should be just slower and cost higher, for additional protection against light AT guns, having less chances to get crit attacks and just having a free top MG. Also being less vulnerable to short barreled Sherman.

[OrderLordTank]

Even the top p4 h version was slightly worse than 76mm shermans in firepower,armor and even mobility.The easy 8 sherman variant was even better.D,E,F variants had way worse armor and gun (with the exception of the f2) but better mobility than 75mm shermans.But that's just historical values,for gameplay's sake i would argue that we take cost into consideration.Also stugs were better armored than 76mm shermans but nothing extreme,they just reached easy 8 level of protection.It was their low profile that made the difference.So in truth that should be reflected with long range enemy accuracy penalty instead of armor penetration.Hetzer was a different beast,it had almost panther level of frontal armor (sides were garbage just like all previous tanks mentioned) but way worse rate of fire and mobility.Also its front profile wasn't much smaller than a stug and although its price was cheaper it couldn't benefit further from 1943 mass production improvements.As for jagdpanthers they had better frontal armor than panthers and worse than king tigers (side was garbage as always) but way better rate of fire and panther levels of mobility.History is fine but if you cant implement the above in meaningful gameplay (to which i am no expert) terms than i see no reason in quoting it.