BETA update 7 feedback

Talk about CoH1 or BKMOD1 in general.
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mofetagalactica
Posts: 633
Joined: 30 Jan 2017, 11:15

Re: BETA update 7 feedback

Post by mofetagalactica »

Honestly the pershing armor could be hardened since it comes really late and there is almost no difference between going for jackson or pershing. Jacksons can somethimes survive 2 shoots of PaK's 42 L/70 75mm's can still deal same amount of damage than pershing, they're also faster and cheaper.

So, yeah by the time that pershings come they're usually useless 'cause the enemy already has really strong counter options for it, and also the SP/ACE unlock is way too close to pershings.

What about an HP buff or Armor buff for all pershings, maybe MG supression hability as the ace pershing has? Maybe any kind of buffs to this will make the ACE pershing a better option than always picking SP ?

kwok
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Joined: 29 Mar 2015, 05:22

Re: BETA update 7 feedback

Post by kwok »

The durability difference between pershing and jackson is much more considerable than you described, figree. You might feel the jackson is more worth it because your micro is above average where you can more skillfully use the jackson but the average player will consider the pershing as a more reliable option. No replay i've seen so far says that people are consistently choosing the jackson over pershing because the jackson is so much better. If anything, players are still trapped in trying to rush the pershing instead of experimenting on trying to get medium tank units.

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mofetagalactica
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Joined: 30 Jan 2017, 11:15

Re: BETA update 7 feedback

Post by mofetagalactica »

kwok wrote:The durability difference between pershing and jackson is much more considerable than you described, figree. You might feel the jackson is more worth it because your micro is above average where you can more skillfully use the jackson but the average player will consider the pershing as a more reliable option. No replay i've seen so far says that people are consistently choosing the jackson over pershing because the jackson is so much better. If anything, players are still trapped in trying to rush the pershing instead of experimenting on trying to get medium tank units.



Not true, its not because of my micro, jacksons has became an obligatory unlock wich now is on a separated brench than pershings wich make the pershings to be delayed even more, since you can't just comeback into the brench and change your strategy. No mater what, going for pershings is always a mistake, unless you want the SP.

You can still make them yeah, but be prepared to face L/70 guns and 88's way earlier with just 76mm's guns at your disposal for like 20 minutes until your pershings arrive wich dosn't even have a notable advantage againts them neither.

I still feel like you made a mistake and broke your own rule by delaying them without counterbalance.

Things i would recommend:

ACE M26's:

-M26 way closer in armor stats compared to current Churchill MKVII croc.
-Not getting affected by Tiger/Acetiger and Kingtiger "tigerphobia".
-MG supression hability.
-Call in arty barrage.

M26's:

-M26 way closer in armor stats compared to current Churchill MKVII croc.
-Not getting affected by Tiger/Acetiger "tigerphobia".
-MG supression hability.

Jacksons:

-Dosn't get affected by Tiger "tigerphobia".
-Does get affected by ACE Tiger "tigerphobia".

Fireflies:

-Dosn't get affected by Tiger "tigerphobia".
-Does get affected by ACE tiger "tigerphobia".

kwok
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Re: BETA update 7 feedback

Post by kwok »

mofetagalactica wrote:
Not true, its not because of my micro, jacksons has became an obligatory unlock wich now is on a separated brench than pershings wich make the pershings to be delayed even more, since you can't just comeback into the brench and change your strategy. No mater what, going for pershings is always a mistake, unless you want the SP.

You can still make them yeah, but be prepared to face L/70 guns and 88's way earlier with just 76mm's guns at your disposal for like 20 minutes until your pershings arrive wich dosn't even have a notable advantage againts them neither.



If i'm up against the scenario YOU mentioned then yeah I wouldn't get a pershing or even a jackson because it implies I'm against a def doc.
I get the sherman improvements and jumbo... both are helpful against more infantry/defensive based strategies including the L70s. Many times I use the jumbo in combination with bazookas to hunt down hetzers, JPs, stugs, stormtroopers, fallsj, or whatever. If my enemy goes down some 88 path then I also adjust my strategy. I can normally read when an 88 is about to come out based on enemy build order/doctrine choices. 88's usually don't come out without some sort of build order indicator. Then depending on other context clues, I can figure out what that 88 gun is going to sit on top of (a tank chasis or emplacement), in which case I'll choose to get artillery or stall into a pershing if i've previously committed into the jumbo path. Again, every path is a "depends" scenario.

If I'm against propaganda doc that might be rushing tiger, first I say good luck because if they're banking all that fuel for a tiger and not trying to stop me with stugs or even pfausts (which delays the tiger even more) then I'm already pushing basic HE shermans or even a jumbo into their base with vetted assault engineers after eating un-upgraded volkssturm.

MenciusMoldbug
Posts: 271
Joined: 17 Mar 2017, 12:57

Re: BETA update 7 feedback

Post by MenciusMoldbug »

Is the Jumbo a reliable bouncer on the L70 with ambush + AP rounds bonus? Last I played beta I managed to oneshot a jumbo by maxxing out the penetration + damage stats with ambush and AP rounds on it with the def JP4 70(A). I don't know if its armor only got buffed vs the weaker axis guns. I would have liked Jumbo to be armor monster if US tanks armor is the problem and Pershing to be the all-rounder heavy-tank.

Now my beta feedback:

AB vs Panther Spam:

I know some panthers got their price increased but how do you handle multiple panthers with only 1 M18 and a single AT airstrike? Beyond these tools there's not much you can do but camp and wait for the panthers to make a mistake but then all the Axis player has to do is play conservatively and keep amassing panthers into a critical mass or when he senses weakness to push. I think the problem people are encountering not just with balance but 'historical-ness' is that allied air power is not as good as it was before. They want allied planes to be haunting german tanks like they supposedly did in real life (I know air to tank kills for our current allied airplanes were very rare in the war but its more about the myth than what actually happened). I would propose to fix this by removing the limit on the M18 so you aren't forced to spam M10's with their weak turret rotation to against panthers. And to also lower the cooldown somehow for the airborne airstrikes. They should have like some sort of upgrade that greatly reduces the cooldown on the airstrikes they get. So they can spam airstrikes more if the axis guy is just spamming heavy/strong tanks at the airborne player. But the airborne player in this case would still need ammo (and fuel later on) to use these airstrikes without breaking balance too much.

Rangers vs Infiltration Rangers:

I know nobody really thinks about this but how many times have you seen normal rangers being built compared to just using the Rangers Truck infiltration Rangers for combat? They spawn very quick from the truck, come with crawling, having 5 thompsons and a bazooka straight off the bat, camo in cover without having to press a button to do it, and have higher HP per model also I think? They completely overshadow normal Rangers in the barracks since they are both being unlocked at the same time. I would make the normal Rangers unlock with the supply yard rather then having them be CP-tied. If they need to be nerfed for coming earlier in this way you can just limit the upgrades they can get until they get the Ranger Truck. Like not allowed to upgrade thompsons without the Ranger Truck or something.

Volkstrumm MP40's vs Pfausts:

Is there any reason to get the MP40's first over the Pfaust for volkstrumm? I still feel like they should get MP40's for free without needing to upgrade it like how terror doctrine got 3 STG44's on grenadiers for free by an cp unlock. As it is, I always pick the pfaust first before the MP40 because it makes the volkstrumm into a potent anti-tank, no-go-zone creator.

Cromwell Command Tank:

Now that you're limited to 1 only. Can its command tank buffs be the same like all the other Command Vehicles? 2.5+ Range some slight reload reduction and some sight range is not enough compared to the awesome powers other command vehicles have in comparison. Unless there's a way to make the current command tank better; like adding better command aura buffs for each veterancy level it gains.

Vet 4 Suggestion On Light Vehicles:

Currently there is no veterancy 4 on the majority of the light vehicles (with some exceptions like the stuart, chaffee, etc.). I would give them -25% received accuracy on that vet to make it simple; since they survived for so long they must be pretty good at juking/dodging shots and stuff. Or the buff could just be a continuation of their previous vet stats but since a lot of these light vehicles have different veterancy buffs I would just make the one I suggested the general vet buff at this level.

Mood
Posts: 36
Joined: 06 Dec 2014, 22:39

Re: BETA update 7 feedback

Post by Mood »

Commonwealth:

I'm not sure if this is a bug or intended, but if you have trucks in sectors that are cut off from the HQ some units are still trainable/buildable while others aren't. I think they should all be trainable/buildable even if the sector is cut off!

Propaganda Doctrine:

Does anyone ever use that Stürmtiger call-in unit? I found it to be absolutely awful and never bother with it any more. Too long reload, too expensive to fire, hits too many obstacles, and if it does hit then you find that the damage is abysmal for such a unit.
Stuka-zu-fuss/nebels do a lot better job, so why ever bother with that thing? I definitely recommend it gets rebalanced (or removed).

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Warhawks97
Posts: 3990
Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 21:45
Location: Germany

Re: BETA update 7 feedback

Post by Warhawks97 »

MenciusMoldbug wrote:Is the Jumbo a reliable bouncer on the L70 with ambush + AP rounds bonus? Last I played beta I managed to oneshot a jumbo by maxxing out the penetration + damage stats with ambush and AP rounds on it with the def JP4 70(A). I don't know if its armor only got buffed vs the weaker axis guns. I would have liked Jumbo to be armor monster if US tanks armor is the problem and Pershing to be the all-rounder heavy-tank.


And when i checked last time, the Jumbo has afterall piss-poor side/rear armor. The jumbo is still well below what it was actually capable of and what would be required to be a though breakthrough tank.



AB vs Panther Spam:

I know some panthers got their price increased but how do you handle multiple panthers with only 1 M18 and a single AT airstrike? Beyond these tools there's not much you can do but camp and wait for the panthers to make a mistake but then all the Axis player has to do is play conservatively and keep amassing panthers into a critical mass or when he senses weakness to push. I think the problem people are encountering not just with balance but 'historical-ness' is that allied air power is not as good as it was before. They want allied planes to be haunting german tanks like they supposedly did in real life (I know air to tank kills for our current allied airplanes were very rare in the war but its more about the myth than what actually happened). I would propose to fix this by removing the limit on the M18 so you aren't forced to spam M10's with their weak turret rotation to against panthers. And to also lower the cooldown somehow for the airborne airstrikes. They should have like some sort of upgrade that greatly reduces the cooldown on the airstrikes they get. So they can spam airstrikes more if the axis guy is just spamming heavy/strong tanks at the airborne player. But the airborne player in this case would still need ammo (and fuel later on) to use these airstrikes without breaking balance too much.



The AB doc air strikes were quite inferior to those of RAF (which is why most prefered RAF over AB doc in the past). And with the overall buff in air capabilties of luftwaffe over the past years (remember when there was just one airstrike for luftwaffe) and AB air support became weaker and weaker in comparission. While german strafe kills vehicles and sometimes damaging tanks just like that, and while RAF cluster bombs can finish off low HP tanks, AB i think still needs to pay for some silly AP rounds to be effective against vehicles.
And despite being quite weak in air support compared to other air docs, it does not even have powerfull guns such as 17 pdr or panther guns.


Removing limit on M18 would be a great step forward.

Regarding air support i thought of the following stuff that could be done:

1. drop air cooldown times.
2. Add upgrade that decreases cooldown and cost of air strikes. Call the upgrade (or unlock) "Air Supermacy".
3. Add an upgrade/unlock that provides a timed ability (in HQ and AB HQ or as global ability) called "Air supremacy".
- It will last a minute or so and during that time the player can call in air strikes for half their cost and all cooldowns are cancelled.
- As long as that is active, germans cant call in air strikes (denied or simply all get shot before entering map). The german player will be informed that allied have taken the over the air and that no friendly support can reach the combat area). So you have one minute of complete air domination to push your attack and where you can call in any airstrike as often as you want for half the normal cost.


Rangers vs Infiltration Rangers:

I know nobody really thinks about this but how many times have you seen normal rangers being built compared to just using the Rangers Truck infiltration Rangers for combat? They spawn very quick from the truck, come with crawling, having 5 thompsons and a bazooka straight off the bat, camo in cover without having to press a button to do it, and have higher HP per model also I think? They completely overshadow normal Rangers in the barracks since they are both being unlocked at the same time. I would make the normal Rangers unlock with the supply yard rather then having them be CP-tied. If they need to be nerfed for coming earlier in this way you can just limit the upgrades they can get until they get the Ranger Truck. Like not allowed to upgrade thompsons without the Ranger Truck or something.


Perhaps rangers can get unlocked along with infiltration rangers rather than with the truck?



Cromwell Command Tank:

Now that you're limited to 1 only. Can its command tank buffs be the same like all the other Command Vehicles? 2.5+ Range some slight reload reduction and some sight range is not enough compared to the awesome powers other command vehicles have in comparison. Unless there's a way to make the current command tank better; like adding better command aura buffs for each veterancy level it gains.


i think the command tank was taken over right from voch. My general complain about command tanks and vehicles is that you have to cluster your tanks arround it due to very short AoE.


Vet 4 Suggestion On Light Vehicles:

Currently there is no veterancy 4 on the majority of the light vehicles (with some exceptions like the stuart, chaffee, etc.). I would give them -25% received accuracy on that vet to make it simple; since they survived for so long they must be pretty good at juking/dodging shots and stuff. Or the buff could just be a continuation of their previous vet stats but since a lot of these light vehicles have different veterancy buffs I would just make the one I suggested the general vet buff at this level.


yes. Vehicles need a better vet system with slight buffs step by step instead of huge buffs in one area with every vet step. But its a lot of work

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