BETA update 7 feedback

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kwok
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Re: BETA update 7 feedback

Postby kwok » 01 Feb 2020, 20:33

Snazz wrote:Which factions/doctrines are currently OP? :D


In my opinion (and ONLY in my opinion), propaganda doc is the most OP but requires some real skill to use. It’s a very high skill high reward doctrine and has only been buffed since release since players haven’t gotten use to playing the new style. But I’ve been pretty successful with it being able to beat players I usually cannot beat (for example redgarden if he doesn’t mind me exposing that fact).
Second would probably be inf doc because it was already strong before in 1v1s because of its power spike in the early to mid game, now it has better armor capabilities in the mid to late game to round it out. I’d recommend it for new players to try because it isn’t as nuanced as brits or PE, not as easy mode as WM that could give a false sense of reality, and not as punishing as armor doc.




Glad to have you back lionelus and devilroach! We are very open to hearing your feedback on the beta. There’s still a long way to go for balance but we will get there

Mood
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Re: BETA update 7 feedback

Postby Mood » 03 Feb 2020, 18:25

Just wanted to drop by and say that the beta is pretty interesting so far. I've played on and off ever since Xalibur was still active and really disliked the direction the mod took after he left, which made me abandon it.

But the current team seems to do a lot better job. Looking forward to more stuff!

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MarKr
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Re: BETA update 7 feedback

Postby MarKr » 04 Feb 2020, 15:25

@Mood: Welcome to the forum and thanks for the positive feedback. It's nice to see people returning.
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Sparrow
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Re: BETA update 7 feedback

Postby Sparrow » 15 Feb 2020, 19:55

@kwok @MarKr Hi, I will speak for some friends who doesnt like to write feedbacks, but at the end, they are players too...I will speak for Dick Winters, Egungun and others from the cubans who plays this wonderfull mod for CoH (friends of MEFISTO).

Why you cant use the pieces of artilery of your team? Its the same for axis, if you are defensive, and you build a howitzer and I kill them o they died, why I can not use them with my troops...? If you restrict this, them you should do the same for units from taking weapons form other armys, because they will not have the skills to understand those weapons from the floor.

We all know that you guys are trying to keep making better the pvp gameplay, but we also know that you respect the historical facts...and we have to remember that allies strike with force the german steel with their airborne, with their bombers, and arty. Im not an airborne player, I play with armor and infantry with allies, and know in BETA is all new...but my mates are not agree with those points that I exposed to you here. We are not asking to change ther habilities tree...

Cheers
Last edited by Sparrow on 16 Feb 2020, 02:13, edited 4 times in total.


panzeralcon
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Re: BETA update 7 feedback

Postby panzeralcon » 15 Feb 2020, 20:19

mira ese video sparrow; ta bien balanceado ahora los ataques aéreos, en general! para mi esta re bien esta actualización!

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Sparrow
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Re: BETA update 7 feedback

Postby Sparrow » 15 Feb 2020, 20:27

And remember please...a veteran unit should not increse its HP...is the same unit...but should increase its accuracy against other unit of the same plane...not like a Panzer IV for infantry taking out a FireFly...or Panzerjaegres dancing in the flame of a Crocodile tank...HP is the same...the health of the soldier doesnt increase with a medal, is still a human...and a veteran squad inside a tank doesn make better the armor of that tank...but is more effective because of the experience.

kwok
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Re: BETA update 7 feedback

Postby kwok » 16 Feb 2020, 06:35

Sparrow wrote:Why you cant use the pieces of artilery of your team? Its the same for axis, if you are defensive, and you build a howitzer and I kill them o they died, why I can not use them with my troops...? If you restrict this, them you should do the same for units from taking weapons form other armys, because they will not have the skills to understand those weapons from the floor.
Cheers


From a gameplay standpoint, this was done because players were abusing the doctrines by building for teammates intentionally so that teammates will have access to artillery without teamwork/coordination. If we wanted armor doc or airborne doc to have howitzers we would've given them howitzers. Meanwhile other types of weapons (like mg's, AT guns, etc.) are comon unit types across factions/doctrines.
From a historical accuracy standpoint, this is not done for other units because most weapons WERE trained to be used across nations, including enemy weapons. However, artillery by nature required a lot of math, conversion tables, range finding, and a lot more sophisticated knowledge than most direct fire weapons.

We all know that you guys are trying to keep making better the pvp gameplay, but we also know that you respect the historical facts...and we have to remember that allies strike with force the german steel with their airborne, with their bombers, and arty. Im not an airborne player, I play with armor and infantry with allies, and know in BETA is all new...but my mates are not agree with those points that I exposed to you here. We are not asking to change ther habilities tree...


I dont understand what you mean. What points about airborne and historical accuracy? We have barely changed the ability tree for airborne.

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Sparrow
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Re: BETA update 7 feedback

Postby Sparrow » 16 Feb 2020, 17:18

kwok wrote:
Sparrow wrote:
We all know that you guys are trying to keep making better the pvp gameplay, but we also know that you respect the historical facts...and we have to remember that allies strike with force the german steel with their airborne, with their bombers, and arty. Im not an airborne player, I play with armor and infantry with allies, and know in BETA is all new...but my mates are not agree with those points that I exposed to you here. We are not asking to change ther habilities tree...


I dont understand what you mean. What points about airborne and historical accuracy? We have barely changed the ability tree for airborne.


One of the determinating facts that achieve the allies in WW2, was that airbornes strikes with force against geermans units. The heavy tanks were easy targets for their allies air strikes and pieces of artillery. I cant tell you this fact is on BETA...it is not there...airborne maybe was barely changed, but the chances in axsis made them a bit weaker than they really were.

kwok the problem is that you havent been playing with us this days, maybe you were busy. We have played wit need ammo, panzer alcon, munchi an our mates, playing 4v4 or 3v3 most of time, and the results were more wining matches for axis than the allies. I feel that airborne is weeker than before. They had their sector agains a spam of tanks, but if you take out that, and replace it for an only one air strike, and the ATs shooting panthers without hit a single critical damage on them, when they have veterancy (veterancy should not give them more HP, and evasion is not the same than a repel shoot on its armor)...what should they do them?

Betas is not already finished...is a BETA, and we are testing it, so we could get a better balance y the future version. from what I have seen, this BETA is for AXIS. Armor is too slowy getting Pershings and airborne is useless in late game (if they are not going to have a sector, they should have an arty, a good one, ). Its just my opinion, and my friends opinion...

Right now one of them (Egungun) is dissapointed with the game dont want to play BETA anymore, he will keep playing the current version...but is just a matter of time BETA past to official and them everyone will have o play it or leave the game. That is not the choice you should give to us, the players...I am writing you to check this arguments...because from what I have seen this week, this is a returning to the oldest v4.7.8 version where the Axis were too much OP. If this keep like this, you would see pvp created matched with full axis team ready to smash an empty allies team.

Cheers

kwok
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Re: BETA update 7 feedback

Postby kwok » 16 Feb 2020, 19:22

Sparrow wrote:
kwok wrote:
Sparrow wrote:

I dont understand what you mean. What points about airborne and historical accuracy? We have barely changed the ability tree for airborne.


One of the determinating facts that achieve the allies in WW2, was that airbornes strikes with force against geermans units. The heavy tanks were easy targets for their allies air strikes and pieces of artillery. I cant tell you this fact is on BETA...it is not there...airborne maybe was barely changed, but the chances in axsis made them a bit weaker than they really were.

kwok the problem is that you havent been playing with us this days, maybe you were busy. We have played wit need ammo, panzer alcon, munchi an our mates, playing 4v4 or 3v3 most of time, and the results were more wining matches for axis than the allies. I feel that airborne is weeker than before. They had their sector agains a spam of tanks, but if you take out that, and replace it for an only one air strike, and the ATs shooting panthers without hit a single critical damage on them, when they have veterancy (veterancy should not give them more HP, and evasion is not the same than a repel shoot on its armor)...what should they do them?


Ah the airstrikes had a problem a while ago where it seemed like it always missed even when it looked like a direct hit. Can you send a replay? We will look into it.

From games that I've seen, the best counter against tank spam as Airborne has been m10s, bazooka/recoiless rifle spams, and paradropping 76mm AT guns that come with free AP shells. I'd save the rocket strikes only for large targets like King Tigers. Panthers are hard because they are so fast, I'd recommend at least trying to disable them first. A lot of the tanks come much later, including the panzer IV and panther. The only tank that still comes early in terms of CP is the tiger, but rushing the tiger right away against a good player is really hard because the propaganda doctrine is really weak without its early CP unlocks. I will hopefully get to play with you some time soon!

About the veterancy, I actually don't know if any unit gets an HP bonus with veterancy... Which units were you talking about?

Right now one of them (Egungun) is dissapointed with the game dont want to play BETA anymore, he will keep playing the current version...but is just a matter of time BETA past to official and them everyone will have o play it or leave the game. That is not the choice you should give to us, the players...I am writing you to check this arguments...because from what I have seen this week, this is a returning to the oldest v4.7.8 version where the Axis were too much OP. If this keep like this, you would see pvp created matched with full axis team ready to smash an empty allies team.

Sorry that he stopped playing the beta but the best way to make sure the beta doesn't go into the real game unbalanced is to keep playing the beta... So if he quit the beta then one day it will go into the real version and he will NEVER be able to go back. If he wants the beta to be better and things he likes to not go away, then he needs to post his argument and replays on the beta. This is the problem that players don't understand. If we don't update the game, people will leave the game by itself. We haven't updated the live version in almost a year and the game community shrinks because we haven't made updates. But, we can't make changes because people will be afraid of them and leave as well. So what can devs do? The best thing is for all players to try the beta and make sure it is okay first... This is not a choice we would give the players, but the players leave us no choice for about a year now. If you talk with Mefisto how long we have been working on this... for a YEAR and still are too afraid to push the change people players only complain but don't try to learn, practice, or give true suggestions (which is very different than complaining). No one will like ALL the changes in the beta, not even devs agree on most the changes in the beta. It's bad that you come to try it so late, but better late then never to help make necessary changes. I hope you understand the difficulty and that you'll work with us to making this be good. Explain to Egungun that if he just shuts his eyes and puts his head in the ground pretending the beta doesn't exist because he doesn't like it, then one day the beta will come to him and he loses BK forever. Explain to your friends if they don't like to post then we can NOT make any changes because we don't know what changes to make. Thank you so much for posting for them, THIS is very important information and things to talk about, when cowards are afraid to post then there is no progress.

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Warhawks97
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Re: BETA update 7 feedback

Postby Warhawks97 » 16 Feb 2020, 22:38

Is AB doc supposed to keep like it is here? It hasnt got as much love and attention as luf got. Luft looks really cool and where you can choose a bit the direction with your inf what to get first and a cool and super usefull command squad.

AB is afterall very straight in many unlock segments. I think i already asked if it could get a reworked inf unlock where you can decide what to get first? Like you dont need 82nd and want vet or 101st AB, why is it still necessary to get the 82nd? When i look at commandos, Luft or BK doc or even terror you get some choices what to get first, which squad to unlock and so on. But AB is the only one that goes straight down the line.

And the leader squad is still not focused on its role which there is: Boost inf and use abilties... instead its still a close range/semi AT/Sniper/command squad for insane high cost and risk. Make it usefull like all other command units and focus it on the main role.

And the strafe still needs to buy AP ammo while axis gets a 20 mm right away....

And finally it would be nice to have some sort of 57 mm airdrop AT gun instead of always getting clumsy 76.


Put the same ammount of love in it like you did with Luft doc.

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Sparrow
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Re: BETA update 7 feedback

Postby Sparrow » 17 Feb 2020, 04:06

kwok wrote:
Sparrow wrote:
kwok wrote:




Right now one of them (Egungun) is dissapointed with the game dont want to play BETA anymore, he will keep playing the current version...but is just a matter of time BETA past to official and them everyone will have o play it or leave the game. That is not the choice you should give to us, the players...I am writing you to check this arguments...because from what I have seen this week, this is a returning to the oldest v4.7.8 version where the Axis were too much OP. If this keep like this, you would see pvp created matched with full axis team ready to smash an empty allies team.

Sorry that he stopped playing the beta but the best way to make sure the beta doesn't go into the real game unbalanced is to keep playing the beta... So if he quit the beta then one day it will go into the real version and he will NEVER be able to go back. If he wants the beta to be better and things he likes to not go away, then he needs to post his argument and replays on the beta. This is the problem that players don't understand. If we don't update the game, people will leave the game by itself. We haven't updated the live version in almost a year and the game community shrinks because we haven't made updates. But, we can't make changes because people will be afraid of them and leave as well. So what can devs do? The best thing is for all players to try the beta and make sure it is okay first... This is not a choice we would give the players, but the players leave us no choice for about a year now. If you talk with Mefisto how long we have been working on this... for a YEAR and still are too afraid to push the change people players only complain but don't try to learn, practice, or give true suggestions (which is very different than complaining). No one will like ALL the changes in the beta, not even devs agree on most the changes in the beta. It's bad that you come to try it so late, but better late then never to help make necessary changes. I hope you understand the difficulty and that you'll work with us to making this be good. Explain to Egungun that if he just shuts his eyes and puts his head in the ground pretending the beta doesn't exist because he doesn't like it, then one day the beta will come to him and he loses BK forever. Explain to your friends if they don't like to post then we can NOT make any changes because we don't know what changes to make. Thank you so much for posting for them, THIS is very important information and things to talk about, when cowards are afraid to post then there is no progress.

Thanks you for your words kwok. Egungun is angry but still playing with us the beta, for now. We will start to save the gamplays looking for bugs, or something rare to report. For example, Egungun said that on his last match he call the SP of armor doctrine, and lost all MP and the tank never came into the game. Thats really hard, because in a difficult situation, loosing that ammount MP is critical for him and his team in general. I will keep posting here, and please check out the strike of the airborne doctrine. Also, the officer of Propaganda doctrine never get well at the hospital, he never cures his injuries...

Cheers

kwok
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Re: BETA update 7 feedback

Postby kwok » 17 Feb 2020, 23:38

Warhawks97 wrote:Is AB doc supposed to keep like it is here? It hasnt got as much love and attention as luf got. Luft looks really cool and where you can choose a bit the direction with your inf what to get first and a cool and super usefull command squad.

AB is afterall very straight in many unlock segments. I think i already asked if it could get a reworked inf unlock where you can decide what to get first? Like you dont need 82nd and want vet or 101st AB, why is it still necessary to get the 82nd? When i look at commandos, Luft or BK doc or even terror you get some choices what to get first, which squad to unlock and so on. But AB is the only one that goes straight down the line.

And the leader squad is still not focused on its role which there is: Boost inf and use abilties... instead its still a close range/semi AT/Sniper/command squad for insane high cost and risk. Make it usefull like all other command units and focus it on the main role.

And the strafe still needs to buy AP ammo while axis gets a 20 mm right away....

And finally it would be nice to have some sort of 57 mm airdrop AT gun instead of always getting clumsy 76.


Put the same ammount of love in it like you did with Luft doc.


Once again, the purpose of the reworks was to balance the game for 1v1's, not to give any doctrine any love. Personally, AB has always been my favorite so it pained me to see it essentially nerfed. But as an AB favorite player... describing AB as "straight down the line" is so far from the truth from my experience. To me, the doctrine has always been choose the right CP unlocks at the right time. Every unlock was focused on making sure I had the right capability against the right matchup. I had games where I never go down the paratrooper line until late game. In terms of choosing the specialization of AB inf, no other unit has a wider assortment of being able to choose garands, johnsons, bars, recoiless rifles, or bazookas. All of those at a discounted price after a very cheap wsc upgrade. I still get the 82nd for their HP bonus, suppression resistance, free bazookas, and most of all thompsons. I literally take down bases against decent players with just 82nd and smoke (except def doc because of their stupid super suppression building mgs). I have countless of those replays on this forum.

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mofetagalactica
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Re: BETA update 7 feedback

Postby mofetagalactica » 18 Feb 2020, 02:35

AB "changes" was a déception regarding infantry unlocks and support weapon unlocks. I can say nothing but to agree with all of what hawks said in his last post.


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