88 undestroyable

[Warhawks97]

Hi. Idk if this is a bug but this unemplaced 88 receive very very low damage. I used 3 howitzers to kill it but direct 105 shells just scratched the 88.... thats bs. My howitzer get blown up entirely by 3 close hits of 88 but 88 survives 2 howitzer salvos and off map arty? Fix that shit pls.


Its probably Nazi steel. Much better quality.... sorry i forgot.

[V13dweller]

Possibly as the defensive doctrines Infantry get that buff from the command tree.

Also, I have seen them being blown up by as little as a single AP round before.

[Patrymir]

I'm surprised... how did you get close with a tank to that 88?

[V13dweller]

It depends., if you do an air attack at the same time it will target the planes first, or if you use other dodgy tactics, or of the player in command forgets to disable HE rounds.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Flak is very ressistant to arty hits, but on the other hand dies with 1 shot of 76mm sherman, also decrew flak is never a big deal, 1 arty hit or couple of tompsons bursts from a close distance, add here that 88 is very expensive, especially for luft, since 2 gebirgs/reg 5 in active using are eating all your mp. Sniper priests insta killing flaks with 2 shots....I can live with it.

[crimax]

It can happen.

I noticed that Inf doc arty is less precise than the Brit one, especially on long distances.
Naked 88 cover (+/-) the same surface than a 75mm AT gun for example, it is a point, so it can be a problem to hit it on long distances and, as said, Priest take down 88 very easily.

So my opinion is .... to do nothing.

@Wolf ... Can you check please if Def 88 and Luft 88 have different stats ?

[Warhawks97]

first of: its not only in def doc.

Ive played games against Priest and arty sherman but they never succeeded destryoing them. I had simply one AA tank so that enemie cant capture them "easily" and two air pio sqauds. Their entire arty failed to kill one enitrely. It was close but before next barrage came i repaired it and recrewed it (or teammate did). So at the end i had 11 88 guys from my part of the map till enemie base and one 88 covered the other.


Its not the def bonus. I used VT´s and off map on it and direct 105 hits dealed almost no damage.


And easily decrewed..... often 88´s are near fixed scout cars, AA tanks, other 88 whatsoever. I did try to capture one with a bunce of inf but volksgrens, Marder I, schwimmwagen killed all soldiers.

Sometimes the enemies recrewed a single 88 3 times in a row during one and the same barrge. Volks and pios recrewed the weapon before savlo was finished and that 3 times.


vet priest is so far the only real unit that can kill it with a single barrage sometimes but just because priest is a real sniper arty. It mostly kills enemie ary and paks with a single hit but for killing the 88 the entire barrage must hit the weapon exactly.


But 2-3 howitzers with VT, then off map 105 and then normal 105 shooting at the same 88 and its still alive... thats just crazy. Long time ago i did mention already that the unemplaced is much harder to kill as the emplaced 88.


and where is 88 expensive? for luft maybe but its still not a big deal to get some. 400 and 50 fuel? the only expensive on it is the inf unit that need to be deployed first for 420 mp. But def doc has for 400/50 a def weapon with 100 range that is oneshoting pretty much everything (except the shot fails) and at the same time an arty unit which barrages for 35 mun with high rof and accuracy and dominating enemie howitzer as those get blown up by only 3 close hits.



also dweller: Your tank needs to stay far away (100 range) when airplane maybe draws 88 attention. If you start moving then with tank towards 88 i am pretty sure that the 88 will still make the shot before the tank comes in range. And if that shot fails the tank is history anyway.

And if you would ever stuck against a 3-4 men team playing Luft, TH, def and def/terror you would know that there is not just one 88 but also many sd2 in front of 88´s, vehicles and inf arround, the one or other bunker and in the game yesterday 3 tank IV70 very early on the field. We were stupid enough playing HR which allowed them to do a mega push with dozens of paks, scout vehicles etc. and untill they wasted all they had in stupid attacks (like 4Pgren units vs quad cal50 and all died) they had already the first IV/70, 20 mm flak and one 88 at least. "Other ways" failed again btw although i had vet 4 81 mm mortar with at least 6 paks and 3 HMgs killed+ lots of other stuff.

[lunarwolf]

air burst and flame arty are very good at killing the crew, infantry with a nade or a mortar also works well. regular arty shells are hit and miss, but if a 105 hits direct its devastating. def doc also has cp to reinforce emplacements which means you need a lot to utterly destroy it.

[Warhawks97]

killing the crew is not a porb. As i said sometimes enemies do recrew a single 88 3 times n a row with grens, pios etc before the 105 has finished the barrage. I´ve been playing with 88´s a lot with luft doc and i had two of these engineers luft pios rdy to recrew an 88, my starting pgren squad and one AA tank to defend it against enemie inf. Also i did build one 88 always in range of the other (its easily done with 100 range) just in case.

And the prob is that 105 direct do someitmes nothing to the weapon itself. In a direct firefight with two 105 vs one 88 the 88 did kill booth. My 105 just killed the crews sometimes but did never real damage to an 88 weapon. The 88 at the other side just need 3 close hits to my 105 to destroy them entirely (while 88 lost only the crews a few times booth 105 got destroyed before the crew was dead and the 88 did no direct hit to the 105).

[Kasbah]

Some emplacements are way to strong, for example the MG in bases (both doctrines)

A single Jagdtiger HE shot at point blank range is not even enough to destroy it. On the other hand, it needs like 15-20 sec with 4 Sherman shooting at the same time to get destroyed.

[Warhawks97]

never used the JT HE round really. Those single HE shots do hit the dirt mostly anyway. I am talking about the unemplaced 88 taking no damage by several direct hits. The emplaced 88´s are ok and are often easier destroyed as the unemplaced versions.


Edit: As if this arty resistant of unemplaced 88 arent enough they also do bounce of tank shots! wtf?! One that got just recrewed after arty salvo got a hit from my sherman but bounced it off. Another just dealed 2/3 damage but "penetrated". Even an 88 in production bounced off 76 sherman shells and after three bounces i used HVAP to kill an 88...

[Warhawks97]

get this guys. In my past games playing luftwaffe i always won by spamming more 88´s as enemie arty could destroy. This is my third replay showing the BS 88 oneshoting every shit at 100 range and being undestroyable by several arty salvos. Fix that damn 88´s.

I am not proud of what i did but before things are being changed people must rage first. I think i was successfull now as probably the most experienced players and good mates of me hate me now. But i think that was neccessary. I got shitstorm in steam after that game like "stupid 88 spammer" or why do you ruin a good game with 88 spam. I simply want to show how easy it is. friendly heavy tanks keep enemie arty busy and spam 88´s and repair tanks. Ive been the worst player in game stats wise but still i got hated and i think the 88 did an essential part to our win as my mates had time to get heavy tanks and as enemie arty couldnt kill them all.

I hope that i will get invited invited in further games by those players but they hate me now. Terence told me that i shall tell him when i start doing that shit so that he can leave the lobby early enough.


check the shit out.

@Tiger: This allied team killed us the round before do you remember? this time no real chance. Only in mid stage and we had not even SE doc.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Well, I surely remember our defeat as Axis recently! But away from being actually unable to perform well because of serious connection problems which made me honestly decide 'just now' to never involve into those 4v4 games anymore... However that already shouldn't we have also hated them all for such a huge emplacements spam on that time then?? Each one of them was able to spam enough emplacements building a whole line by his own.. and not just a single player between them!! They built a whole defensive line just in seconds while spamming dozens of tanks, planes and artillery o.O

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Arty player (Terence) did a huge mistake here actually, he tryed to take out 88's as soon as he got his Priests, but first of all he had to vet up his arty by shooting at elite inf, grens\storms\luft or whatever, 20 kills and your Priest is vet 2, on such lvl Flak will be 100% dead with one barrage.

Game was cool btw, add it to replays section together with previous 4v4 also:).

[Warhawks97]

Arty player (Terence) did a huge mistake here actually, he tryed to take out 88's as soon as he got his Priests, but first of all he had to vet up his arty by shooting at elite inf, grens\storms\luft or whatever, 20 kills and your Priest is vet 2, on such lvl Flak will be 100% dead with one barrage.

Game was cool btw, add it to replays section together with previous 4v4 also:).

the previous crashed when it was over and when i was about to continue to stats and so replay is lost. Would be have been funny though and see KT being killed by 6 pdr churchill (rear hit on low HP KT but still) or comet bouncing schrecks.



And oh, fine..... now allis first need veted arty to kill defensives.... really awesome. And then all complain why allis gonna shoot single inf squads instead 88´s with priests.

Also note that (what he and erich told me in steam) they used two priest salvos+ inf off map to destroy one single 88 and it was slightly below 50%. But woe betide a grille doesnt kill an emplacment with one shot! So when priest need vet first to be able to kill an 88 why dont we make it for all arty units and grille would need vet first to destroy and hit emplacments or enemie howitzer reliable? Or why can vet 0 def doc 88 with arty barrage kill an enemie howitzer without problems with 2-3 shots?


And what when CW arty is busy with SE arty and what if a veted priest dies by hummel and henschels? They then need to get vet steps first again to be able to fight 88´s while 3 more 88´s will be build untill he got a new vet 2 priest? And what if they dont have CW arty doc? shall they say instantly "GG" when an 88 is build? Also note that i could have build like 4 more 88´s if i hadnt lost my luft pios to enemie arty when i tried to repair the tigers and Panthers (i think ive lost like 5 squads during attempts to repair tanks). And def can build even more 88´s as they dont need do spend 420 mp into luft pios first. I mean what do you expect from CW arty doc? countering SE+ nebler and walking stukas and then 88´s for what it needs vet first and the rest of the team is unable to do anything just because of like 2-3 88´s shots or one single barrage?

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Well, Wespe or Grille without vet lvl also will need 3-4 barrages for taking out 17p nest or 107mm mortar emplacements for example. When i or MG42 playing arty doc its really not that hard to keep all 88's and arty down, cause as soon as your Priest have vet 2. with comander it one shots all Wespes and flaks with easy. Also you can use 75mm autocars for preventing Flaks. The key of why alies lost here is simple:
1) they had inf and arty together on one side, so the rest two players on left side (raf + tanks) were without arty support for a long time.
2) Terence had to vet up his arty first, than bomb flaks.
3) Assaults werent coordinated, though they all were in team speak. First tanks are advancing, taking high loses cause of flaks, and only after Terence shooting with Priests.
4) Erich could do better with Inf doc, i didnt notcie that he used 105mm Sherman or 4 Howitzers VT.

[Warhawks97]

Well, Wespe or Grille without vet lvl also will need 3-4 barrages for taking out 17p nest or 107mm mortar emplacements for example.

Yes: Emplacments! We do have 88 emplacments and i would be ok if those would take more arty shells and barrages. But they are unemplaced. Unemplaced weapons (paks/Howitzers) usually die a way faster from barrages. Fact is that the unemplaced 88 takes more shells than the emplaced. I mean i could expect that an off map strike+ two priest salvos at the same time would take the 88 out. Ive often lost the 88 crew but i had 2 luft pio squads and one gren squad available to recrew them and well protected by friendly inf and AA tanks.


So you can compare 88 emplacment with 17 pdr or mortar emplacments in terms of constancy (my bad that i compared to emplacments first). However it just doesnt seems fair that unemplaced paks and howitzers are taken out by just a few hits while unemplaced 88 is so hard to destroy (88 takes out paks and howitzers with just like 3 close hits using barrage ability which means that i could have used the 88 barrage to counter enemie howitzers using def doc 88).

[Warhawks97]

Based on recent pvp experience i figured out that even paks (which cost in case of 17pdr even more than 88 in manpower) are being destroyed totally pretty fast by lighter arty already (75mm, 88mm, 95 mm). even 1-3 calli rockets can kill a pak completely.


So why the heck is the unemplaced 88 the only unemplaced weapon which is so hard to destroy. All other unemplaced weapons like Howitzers and paks are being destroyed by a few hits of arty (light arty already). I mean its not that players cant choose between emplaced and unemplaced weapons.

But a salvo that can kill a pak completely scratches 88´s only. Its just stupid in my opinion.