Tiger1996 wrote:I think it's very clear why I suggested 70 range for it, in case of no more static position ability that boosts range and reload... Otherwise there would be noway to fight against Pz.IVs with a 7 seconds reload time for the Firefly.
Wow. Guess you use Bottle opener to open a can right? Thats what i mean. You shall make your correct pick. But BK is far away from that. Especially axis. Take as sample Panther or their AT guns. Panther against everything, medium or heavy pak, doesnt matter, both kill tanks and vehicles.
Thats what i would love to change. What if two stugs are better in some situations to counter shermans than a tiger or panther? Does it make ring ring in your head now?
I feel that the firefly is not the best pick to counter Panzer IV. Simply bc the tank IV already loads faster. Thats why i am saying all time: Use Panzer IV and stugs vs brits, Panther vs US.
So basically i wouldnt change much on the current situation. Instead i would enforce certain things in this particular matter.
Perhaps churchills, M10, 6 pounder AT gun, cromwell or comet will be the better choice to counter many tank IV´s while firefly with command tank and perhaps stat mode will be the weapon of choice when you want to keep a panther at distance? Or simply use your firefly in conjunction with better reconassaince. You see two or three Tank IV´s coming and know their attack route? Put a firefly or a pair of them there, stat mode and command tank and your enemie will take the first shots and losses before he could notice where it came from. Perhaps you also use something that grapped tank IV´s attention and made them turning the turrets? But the other way arround: go head on with firefly on tank IV´s and you die in 1 vs 1. But your 70 range standard range for firefly would absolutely ruin all that smart pre-combat thinking. Thats what i call "The small difference".
You play, if even, chess. I play chess in which every figure can get very particular boosts. And a boosted conscript can at the end beat a unboosted tower.
In reality, the Firefly was the best tool for the brits to counter tigers and Panthers. But in common combat situations vs stugs or tank IV´s the US 76 proved to be overall more effective simply bc they could fire faster, havent got the gunner blinded after shooting and could follow their tracers.
Hope you got me now.
Warhawks97 wrote:My reload time suggestions were more aimed on forcing players to play on bigger maps than anything else really, and by the way the Firefly currently in the game already out-ranges the Panther with static position!!
See? smart usage of abilities to gain upper hand. Range boost for firefly just bc makes it to be just another brain dead unit. Simply got firefly and world will be better for you. We dont care for other units anymore.
Though... I still don't get the gist of your suggestions at all.. to me it sounds like u just want to make medium tanks more superior against heavier tanks! If u think my suggestions are ruining everything due to insane range numbers for heavy tanks (but also insane reload times btw in order to compensate, which is also more realistic because bigger shells mean more reload time and therefore more range too) then I wonder how ur suggestions are any different!! I mean if it's not fun to you seeing heavy tanks actually doing what they are designed for (which is ranged combat) then would it be more fun to you with dozens of medium tanks running around and out-gunning heavies on the other hand??!!
I can't get how is this anymore rewarding.. it even contradicts logic! If heavies should not fight against heavies, then how should it ever be??!!
For me it just looks like you would actually want to remove heavies completely from the game and make it all about mediums vs mediums...
More superior? lol. Redgaarden is absolutely right.
Dude, what you see in 90% of all late games? Big tanks and anti big tanks units or big tanks to counter big. In late game there is no reason to take a stug over panther. Simply bc stug has the rof of a panther with much worse armor, pen and damage.
Its about picking the right tools for the right moment. I want mediums lasting longer than just 10 mins during mid game before heavy take over the show entirely.
Also, pure weight of shell means nothing. Guns sights, flight characteristics etc need to be taken into acc. There were many small calibre guns with longer ranger than heavier guns that used less proppelant in relation. The max shooting range of a 76 sherman (or basically most tanks) was higher than that of 105 mm howitzers (from US and axis).
So you got a very wrong logic here.
And heavies designed for ranged combat? I will ask the M4A3E2 Jumbo sherman with 75 mm. Idk how i can explain him that he is designed for long range combat
Dude, Axis wanted super tanks. So they have made them heavy with canons made for ranged combat. Thats why its called "factionas armor philosophy"
and not "calibre based philosophy".
The firefly shell was lighter than the 90 mm, however the Pershing was claimed to shoot faster. In average appox 6 rpm for firefly vs 8 for Pershings.
Loaders space and ammo storage is also important if you didnt know that. Perhaps even more than pure shell weight.
With superior range u get the chance to shoot first as heavies, however.. with a reload time and mobility disadvantage against superior medium tank numbers.. ur heavy armor would be definitely exposed to enemy fire at closer ranges! So, of course heavy tanks would still take shots, even more than ever before, because according to my suggestions.. medium tanks would be able to shoot almost 3 times as fast, only need to get closer.
Reconassaince is what makes you fire first but well... Heavies have better view most of the time so that alone is an advantage when it comes to getting into a better initial situation. Shooting range and who fires first at which range has to do a lot with spotting range etc rather than who has the bigger gun (which still just allows you to fire what you can see...think of the Wox games). So basically if we keep the ranges the heavier will fire usually first. People use them more carefully, esspecially in conjunction with reconassaince, and in case you prepare for an incoming attack you can bring them into stat mode or ambush well ahead of the attack. And then you do what you want: Make the first shot and kill shots before mediums can effectively give counter. Which would mostly bounce anyway.
I dont get why the heavies should automatically have range advantge, during defense as well as offense. In defense they have: stat mode or ambush. But in offense would just lead the sense of "launching an attack" ad absurdum. Heavies would only stay behind a wall of conscripts and snipe arround. But i guess you already know that heavies are meant to to take the lead in attacks (exception jagdpanther or elephant which were supposed to support infantry assaults from afar by killing tanks that pose threats to infantry. Thats why i want them having their 70 basic range) and not to skirmish from the second or even third line.
However, 65 range for tiger and Panther would still seem to be acceptable. That way you could still use Td´s and AT guns (or command unit boosts, stat modes) to protect your tanks from them without creating the silly situation i just described.
Warhawks97 wrote:And btw I don't think the camera zoom would have to be increased at all.. it's not like you can't clearly capture the Stuh with 80 range shooting its target in ur screen currently!
And i hate it. How often did i say it already?
Static mode takes a while to activate and de-activate.. stop for a moment and ur Tiger most of the times is dead either to arty or airplanes.
You never listen, or? Find your mistake. The answer is already given many times.
Without conducting an entirely new reload time and combat range principle, then in this case... I just don't agree with touching any reload times, specifically for Tiger1 or Panthers and Fireflys.. because it's not worth it! Everything could just stay as it is then.
Though, 7 seconds reload time for both the Elefant and JagdPanther with 70 basic range also for both.. seems like that's the only thing we both agree.
Basic i was thinking of approx 7-7,8 for elephant and 8,1 for Jagdpanther. Stat modes and ambushes (as well as the very likely used tank commander) will reduce it. As i just mentioned them, the heavies will most likely be boosted by a Tank commander, but by far not every medium can be upgraded with them. So in 1 vs many situations the reload time difference wont be that much, esspecially ambush and stat modes will ultimately even it out to some point.
And i never said 3 sec for mediums. I was at 5 seconds. The fastest reload of a 76 sherman was 2 seconds with very experienced loader that was holding the second shot already in his hands. 5-5.5 seems much closer for average crews where the loader has sufficient space and shells nicely available. 3 secs is what you get with vets and stuff.
Bottom line is;
I am very interested to AT LEAST try out these reload time and range changes which are based on a CLEAR principle as they are divided into certain categories based on gun caliber with unified reload and range for each category! A test version for these changes would be the best way to try this.
The principle is very simple, it does stick to a very simple equation too! Which is:
- Bigger shell = bigger range = bigger reload.
- Smaller shell = smaller range = smaller reload.
And these are just wrong.
See my example Pershing and firefly. Loaders space, ammo storage, gunsight, enemie armor, pen power and what many other factors.
I want tanks having a philosophy based on what the factions considered to be important for tanks or certain tanks and their supposed roles.
Now, with the suggestions:
1st category tank (76 Sherman) range will stay 60 BUT the reload will be only 3 to 4 seconds.
4th category tank (King Tiger) range will be 75 which means now the range difference will be 15 (5 more than currently) BUT, the KT takes at least 11 seconds to reload... So, the KT will be no longer reloading as quickly or as fast as a Sherman.. but the Sherman will reload 4 times faster.. in return, the KT will have 15 range difference and not only 10 range difference.. you see what I mean?
This might be even a big buff to ALL medium tanks in case they get to fight in 60 range, however.. the bigger tanks will get some range advantage.
Just why.... Why 11 seconds? Holly shit. Why? Its not a round that consists of the shot and cartrigde. Its not a stuh. 8,5-9 seconds are absolutely enough. Tank commander, vet steps and stat mode and you are as quick as a basic mediums. You cant put a TC in all mediums, but all heavies will likely get one. Same as just a few mediums will be vet while heavies will be taken a lot more care. Heavies gain boosts by vets, better one than mediums. They get modes, ranged shots and what else with vet.
These super range basic ranges are crap. See above. You find many gameplay reasons there.