Sturmtiger

[mofetagalactica]

Well, after all it's just a 125kg bomb.. compared to 380mm rocket! ^ ^

Nonetheless, game-play wise... You still can't kill the most powerful Allied tank (Super Pershing) when it's full health with just 1 shot using the SturmTiger, as the SP would always survive with about 10% HP or so. That's fine though since it's available only once...
Yet, on the other hand just two 125kg bombs by an airstrike are enough to kill even a full HP JagdTiger! Or even the King Tiger which is the most expensive unit in the game... So, I believe it's still balanced and justified.

If anything, then I think just the rear armor of the SturmTiger has to be reduced and maybe MP cost increase.. perhaps from 700MP to 1000MP but that's really all about it.

holly shit. The game for you is really all about tigers and super pershing as the ultimate measurement.


And i can tell you for sure: NO!

Did you even read the damage? Sure, crits and stuff, or bugs like a Pershing ace survives a direct V1 hit without a scratch?

Do you even care about the fact that an entire CW armored force which sticks usually together since their tanks have different roles, gets blasted away just like that? Do you even care a little damn shit for stuff aside Tigers and Super Pershings? And calculating a value of a weapon how it performs in comparison to it or how good it can kill it?

And what has mm to do with kilo? What you think how much HE your lovely 380 mm rocket contains? Exactly: 125 KG... Thats more than a 250 IB (112,27 kg) bomb carries.
My main concern is not that it deals damage in the aforesaid area. Its the fact that the damage loss at the edge of this blast area is so insignificant that it does not just damage stuff there but instead still killing it outright.


And yeah... lets simply increase cost like always.... fits perfect in the "axis quality" stuff. This time using some sort of allien explosives much better than stupid human made stuff.

It doesnt change the way a unit works in game. And how its used etc.


I would suggest to add a riflemen that throws rocks which kills any axis unit instantly. Range is 80 and cooldown 2 mins. Lets make it cost perhaps 800 MP? I know its stupid. But who cares. This is BK, right? As long as costs are balanced (in some ways)......

I also think that the far units from the center of the explosion should take less damage and not just destroy 100% of the units that are in the circle range of the explosion. But im pretty sure that devs will not be ok with it they will just say that it will get "useless"

[Krieger Blitzer]

holly shit. The game for you is really all about tigers and super pershing as the ultimate measurement.

I think you miss the point... So, calm down please and try to get what I mean!

Those units are definitely not my ultimate measurement.. but mostly, these kind of "nuke" weapons would be often used to take down those particular expensive units... No one really is going to use airplanes against a group of Panzer4 tanks for example, but rather 2 Tigers, a King Tiger or a group of Panthers or generally the big cats! Neither anyone would usually use his SturmTiger to kill a group of Shermans, but rather the player would often use it to get rid of the Super Pershing (which he can't do if it's full HP) or maybe a group of Pershings then.. but who is going to combine all his Pershings in a single one spot??!! Usually the Pershings would be scattered away.
Given the fact that it's not really worth it to sacrifice 6 minutes reload time and 150 ammo just to kill a few Shermans when you could just achieve the same result by other less demanding ways. I mean that the players would mostly save those destructive weapons so that they could use them to smash the most expensive units, which are the most dangerous the most of the time.. rather than wasting those kind of weapons on cheap stuff! Yet, that's surely while excluding some extreme conditions or some certain situations when those weapons could also be used to wipe out cheap units.

Nonetheless, my point here is that.. game-play wise, the Airborne airstrikes are just as deadly and are capable of being just as much destructive as the SturmTiger... Perhaps even more destructive, specifically when keeping in mind that those airstrikes can be used a lot more frequently...
So, in my humble opinion.. there is really nothing to complain about here, maybe except the over-performing rear armor of the SturmTiger.

Though, that's just my opinion regarding this matter... I surely appreciate how you apparently hate the way of which the SturmTiger is currently represented in the game, though... I guess we also still agree with each other on different subjects

[Warhawks97]

well. You are wrong when you say that only expensive units are being targetd by "nukes". When i have dozens of 17 pdr pits and shit, why should i or my mate waste res on killing a tiger which at this point is harmless like a little cat rather than a tiger? The nebelwerfer or maultier or wespe or hotchkiss would at this time be the greater threat and the much prefered target.

You kill what is your main threat. Or what has the biggest impact on the game. When i see an 17 pdr pit or pershing and then see that my mate has a jagdpanther, why shooting the pershing then? The group over there of two or three 95 mm churchills are perhaps the prefered target.


My philosophy is, that these "super units" are usless without the support arround.... I seldomly shot shot elephants or jagdtigers etc with my priests. Instead i destroyed stuff arround it. AT guns, aa positions etc.

And thats the same with the sturmtiger. Ok, i killed pershings as well, but the point is that there is not just a blast area, its a 100% dead zone. And there is nothing comparable.

And airstrikes can be evaded much easier or shot down. The rocket appears out from the fog of war (like arty often does) and no second later comes the impact.

Its stupid to believe that "the most expensive" units are always the top priority target. And it doesnt makes things better. The blast area shouldnt be a 100% dead zone to everything. At least not for a weapon that strikes so suddenly and accurate.

[kwok]

I agree with Warhawks in his assessment. The only reason why it isn’t prevalent in PvP is because of how slow the axis players and their meta evolves. I recall the time Warhawks went on his 88 crusade. Hopefully this won’t be the same until people realize how strong particular aspects of axis factions are.

But I disagree with his suggestions to fix it but he is on the same reasoning as me. I think the intent and role of the ST needs to be thought through and made really clear. By this I don’t mean “it was meant to replace the v1”, that’s more of a “history of how the unit exists” explanation. I mean a real game reason explanation like “provides the terror doctrine an anti emplacement capability”.

I think the approach to adjusting the ST should be to first establish its intent and THEN think about its tweaks. Else you get the nonsense arguments above. For example:

I think it’s implied that the ST was meant to be an anti emplacement option based on the BS arguments made above... in which case why should the ST do damage to tanks at all? Make its target tables do minimal against armor since “no one is going to use it against a cluster of tanks anyways”. Or would that be unacceptable? Is the ST meant to be a nuke after all? If so then the unit is just fine as a unit, but bullshit in a PvP aspect. Just some things to think about.

[Panzerblitz1]

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/sturmtiger ... zer-vi.htm

"In January 1945, a single round from a PzStuMrKp 1001 Sturmtiger reportedly destroyed three American M-4 Sherman tanks located in a targeted village."

[Warhawks97]

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/sturmtiger-sturmpanzer-vi.htm

"In January 1945, a single round from a PzStuMrKp 1001 Sturmtiger reportedly destroyed three American M-4 Sherman tanks located in a targeted village."

would like to see the distance between them. perhaps some sort of coulmn.

Also germans count destroyed when the target tank is totally destroyed beyond repairs. The US those that are being taken out of action at the time but repairable. Is that a german count or US count?

On top it kills tanks staying outside the actual explosion radius. That it can kill 3 tanks, ok, but not when there is soo much space between them as it happens in games.

Anyway: "short-range"... from the same page. I think it should be either or.

Either it has a massive blast but pretty short ranged (i mean it says 4,6-6 km. Which is less than half the range of howitzers). If it would have approx 100 range it would fit perfectly in the game and his role as "bunker buster" unit.

That thing as currently everything. An AoE far superior to anything else known in BK (which is not so much an issue), an insane damage, even at the edge of the AoE, sniper accuracy and a range of an howitzer. That it takes long to reload doesnt makes it better. It still kills entire armies in a single shot.

[idliketoplaybetter]

Hi

I think it's effectivness (both dmg area/splash and basic dmg amount) is okay, no one is gonna use if you decrease it, and there would be no need in that.

Although of all sniper and dmg benefits you have, you still have to reach the target and hit, i, personally been using this unit A LOT (mainly against so called OP Royal engie doc, but it's not the case here), so i can tell, that alike basic V1, this is a very timing dependable unit - AND THAT IS GOOD.
It is least justified by some extent, which is an arcadish (positive kind of arcadish) aspect of the game.

In fact i disagree on many point on ST of Warhawks here, i completely agree on what he said about "way of fixing things by making it pricier".
Most of "pricy" units, are much easier for Axis players to get, than it is possibly implemented to be.
Basically, most of dudes just sit back behind some amount of defence shit and bank for heavy hitters (that applies for both sides, but again, there is no such a confusion, as when u meet Grille in game for the first time).
If v1 or ST is somewhat reasonable by price and fact it is "weapon of mass dectruction", You simply cant see such a background for Grille to be "Grille".

So i see no reason to discuss ST at all. Dunno why would anyone even complain of its armor tbh.
Yes - thick alike KT - supposed to be on a frontline and take dmg, that is what STURM stands for - expensive - should not be killed that easy by basic units.

What is the concern? it shoots once, and u have to give the player using it a chance to use it to catch the moment, as sometimes, with Axis against proper Allies, that moment can possibly never arrive (and that is another positive arcadish aspect!).
If that means to kill whole blob within range - yes, it means that then. Might teach "recent CW players kind" to least micro a bit, wish there was maybe trophy kind of ST for Allies against Luftwaffe...

[Redgaarden]

If that means to kill whole blob within range - yes, it means that then. Might teach "recent CW players kind" to least micro a bit, wish there was maybe trophy kind of ST for Allies against Luftwaffe...

I dont think micro is enough. I think that the oppoent has to be braindead to miss with the ST too. And everything is within range for that matter.

I think it's effectivness (both dmg area/splash and basic dmg amount) is okay, no one is gonna use if you decrease it, and there would be no need in that.

Even if it did 400 dmg in the middle, and 120 at the edges. I would still consider it extremly good.

So i see no reason to discuss ST at all. Dunno why would anyone even complain of its armor tbh.

How do you kill it? (As US)

expensive - should not be killed that easy by basic units.

If a 830 manpower 160 fuel tank, will have an extremly difficult time to kill a 700 manpower unit. Then I think it's not that expensive of a unit.

What is the concern? it shoots once,

My concern is that it kills whatever unit it wants, regardles what I do to try and prevent it.

[idliketoplaybetter]

I dont think micro is enough. I think that the oppoent has to be braindead to miss with the ST too. And everything is within range for that matter.

Yea, lets take awesome range of that rocket

Even if it did 400 dmg in the middle, and 120 at the edges. I would still consider it extremly good.

Yea, lets make it shoot paper, cause range sucks already

How do you kill it? (As US)

The way how its done every time with KT for a change?

eIf a 830 manpower 160 fuel tank, will have an extremly difficult time to kill a 700 manpower unit. Then I think it's not that expensive of a unit.

Yea, lets take its armor too. Agreed

My concern is that it kills whatever unit it wants, regardles what I do to try and prevent it.

In my eyes, you all seem to be missing the core thing of MarkR response there above.

They made it as it is - being powerfull change for somewhat useless V1.
Powerfull. Change. Useless.

Change its range/armor/dmg - will make it easy for campers to avaid anything, chaning armor will make it easy for spammers to kill, changing dmg, will take all the sense of the unit at all.

Weakining it, outside of chaning huge AXIS/ALLIES meta will make things worse and change of v1 unjustified.

If that is that "abusive and OP to a shit", why u cant see it in basically every game??

[Redgaarden]

WHen it first came out, I thought it would be a close range super unit to blast fortifctaions. I expected it to be more like a slightly stronger Stupa.

I didn't expect it to be a long range, cheap, heavy tank destoryer, marksman Hummel x2 with shiton of armour and health.
The range is insane, the armour too. It could make sense if it was inaccurate and did shiton of dmg, or accurate and shiton of dmg in center. But I can't possible justify it being super accurate, shiton of dmg, extreme range, AND having the most insane AOE ever seen before.

If that is that "abusive and OP to a shit", why u cant see it in basically every game??

I dont remember a single game I have enjoyed with that thing. I hope that is the reason why I dont see it as often.

Weakining it, outside of chaning huge AXIS/ALLIES meta will make things worse and change of v1 unjustified.

It's clearly broken like alot of other things. Just becaue other things are broken doesn't mean this one should be too. And I can't treat the v1 and ST as the same thing.

Change its range/armor/dmg - will make it easy for campers to avaid anything, chaning armor will make it easy for spammers to kill, changing dmg, will take all the sense of the unit at all.

Off course it should be easy to avoid when it's laser accurate and deals alot of dmg.
I thought Tiger/Panther armour would be quite justified for a unit like this? It still has alot of hp. And it shouldn't get one ht killed by anything cannon related.
Should it be killing armour like it's infantry?

[idliketoplaybetter]

You're clearly one the best sutendts of Prof. Tiger University of Humble Answering.

However i repeast my question again and add even more points, regarding ur previous "response"

If it is that OP, why we cant see it in basically every game, as it was with Stuka on previous patches/or Grille mostly every game, or so on?

Why, considering that most of recent players and their gaming agenda, are complete tards, this unit hasnt become the most abusive shit? if that is that easy easy to?

[Krieger Blitzer]

You're clearly one the best sutendts of Prof. Tiger University of Humble Answering.

What? Me and Redgaarden aren't even sharing the same opinion concerning the SturmTiger here...

Anyway, I would then just like to shortly provide my personal perspective regarding this matter once again, first I would like to remind everyone that the SturmTiger can't shoot anywhere unless the targeted area is spotted.. therefore, 200 range isn't really a big deal... And I believe the damage is absolutely fine for its caliber, specifically given how it shoots only once for 150 ammo every 6 minutes! Not to mention that the Airborne planes are also just as deadly, maybe they don't have the same damage, but still high enough damage to easily kill every Axis heavy tank.. and I am aware that airplanes can be shot down by AA.. but let's not forget that airstrikes are also available to use much more frequently than the SturmTiger, basically you can use an airstrike every 2 minutes or so, not to mention that if the bombing run airstrike ability is still "recharging" or on cool-down, the player can sill use the air patrol strike... And this ability doesn't only send several bombing run airstrikes, but also together with strafe run planes! And the player could usually afford enough ammo to use his airstrikes as Airborne doctrine, thanks to supply drops too!
While the WH faction doesn't have any airplanes on the other hand.

However, the only thing I can agree with, are the complaints about the rear armor of the SturmTiger, as I admit it's clearly over-performing against 17pdrs and 90mm cannons! Also, the price of 700 MP is a bit too low, as I believe it should be around 900 MP or 1000 MP even! As it should be more expensive to replace whenever destroyed, but that's really it.

[idliketoplaybetter]

First u create a problem
Then u find a way to object it.

Without changing pure game concept - changing this unit has no sense.
Chaning concept won't happen, i doubt dev's would go for it significantly for least.

Within recent game concept, once again, SturmTiger imo, is the one best and logical units. Especially for Terror doc (considering Ultimative weight of the weapon).

Even more to say, I would go for making ST even more reliable and easy reached to see it often, and maybe after that, id consider different tweaks/nerfs for its usability.

[kwok]

Based on pblitz's response, it sounds like the sturmtiger's role IS meant to be a nuke and not an anti-emplacement weapon. So, can't say it doesn't serve its purpose. As much as I disagree with the unit's design, if that is the direction devs WANT to take the mod then I think playbetter's approach is the most sound and logical.

But, one thing I would highly disagree with while on this thread is comparing it at all to the other indirect/offmap support abilities... except maybe the airborne bombing patrol. No other ability or unit is remotely close to the sturmtiger in design and intent i think. Pretending that "____ has it so sturmtiger is okay" is a valid reason for its existence is just hypocrisy.

[Warhawks97]

My concern is that it kills whatever unit it wants, regardles what I do to try and prevent it.

This is what bugs me. And thats what makes it so much better than V1. You had a huge ammount of time when you could hear the sound. Only your emplacments were dead for sure.

But this thing comes like a thors hammer.

WHen it first came out, I thought it would be a close range super unit to blast fortifctaions. I expected it to be more like a slightly stronger Stupa.

I didn't expect it to be a long range, cheap, heavy tank destoryer, marksman Hummel x2 with shiton of armour and health.
The range is insane, the armour too. It could make sense if it was inaccurate and did shiton of dmg, or accurate and shiton of dmg in center. But I can't possible justify it being super accurate, shiton of dmg, extreme range, AND having the most insane AOE ever seen before.

yep.

If it is that OP, why we cant see it in basically every game, as it was with Stuka on previous patches/or Grille mostly every game, or so on?

Why, considering that most of recent players and their gaming agenda, are complete tards, this unit hasnt become the most abusive shit? if that is that easy easy to?

First there is a meta players tend to play. And Terror has simply lots of funny shit to go. The grens and stgs for free, powerfull late game armor etc.
More skilled terror players (assuming its the typicall axis gameplay that there is "evereybody play on his side") are going for inf and tanks at first. It makes sense since pure arty bashing or the ammount of arty units doesnt ensure victory. At first you push your enemies to a point at which you can bash them hard and whenever you want. On allied these jobs are distributed among docs so here it makes some sense that arty players get arty quickly while others try to "fence the enemie". If there Terror player is relying on himself he surely wont go the arty branch asap. And when he is not self-relying and jobs distributed like allied do then its mostly the SE player or def doc player that go for arty since they cant provide battle tanks like panthers.

But if you reorganize, i mean realy reorganize, like SE goes for inf and Td´s instead of arty, def doc for inf and defenses, Blitz for tanks and so on and Terror as arty doc, then you would see how extremely usefull this unit is. And most importantly, what a powerfull artillery doctrine terror doc is. After RA and SE its the thrid most powerfull arty doctrine together with defensive doctrine.



Also players are stupid, stupid aaand.. yes, stupid. Oh, and blind. Can you remember the old naked 88 that didnt take damage from arty (just the crew died). They all told me its a bad unit. I started a crusade and have beaten all or most players just by a spam of naked 88.... sometimes 11-15 in a single game. I can only remember sukin and his mates with their extrodinary teamplay (RA, RAF, armor at this time) that managed to handle it. But practically, in random mixed teams, there was more or less no way to deal with naked 88 spam in 4 vs 4 or 3 vs 3 games. But i had to start a crusade at first.....just to show the most obvious bullshit which was utter bullshit. So, players are blind, foolish and often idiots. And they fail too often to see potential of units. And what they fail to see as well is the extrem versatility and role-switching options axis can play. But most of the time they keep playing meta: Luft spams inf (completely fail to see its power as defensive or armor support doc), SE arty (absolutely failing to see what a damn good anti tank doc, sneaky/ambush/trap doc and even inf doc it can be) and so on. And same goes for Terror. The arty branch is "just another powerfull branch" in this doc. And since players got used to have Terror as Inf/armor doctrine they wont change it anytime soon.

[idliketoplaybetter]

I still dont get why u cant understand the salt here.

V1 was never used. Many reasons.

Now its changed for even pricier form of itself. Somehow became used.

(i like the way here, on forum, life goes. }

People start on topic - almost right on dev's say what's what - answer is being left behind - people multiply "possible" issues regarding opened topic - more words - dev's come back and basically repeat their answers )

[Mr. FeministDonut]

I still dont get why u cant understand the salt here.

V1 was never used. Many reasons.

Now its changed for even pricier form of itself. Somehow became used.

(i like the way here, on forum, life goes. }

People start on topic - almost right on dev's say what's what - answer is being left behind - people multiply "possible" issues regarding opened topic - more words - dev's come back and basically repeat their answers )

Constructive posts are always welcome.

[Krieger Blitzer]

But, one thing I would highly disagree with while on this thread is comparing it at all to the other indirect/offmap support abilities... except maybe the airborne bombing patrol. No other ability or unit is remotely close to the sturmtiger in design and intent i think. Pretending that "____ has it so sturmtiger is okay" is a valid reason for its existence is just hypocrisy.

I think the real hypocrisy here is when some players complain about the SturmTiger being a self-propelled nuke, but at the same time.. the same players are totally fine with the AB airstrike "nukes" on the other hand... That's the real hypocrisy right there I guess!

And I don't want somebody coming up telling me "but the SturmTiger has no drawbacks compared to Airborne airstrikes" because clearly there are drawbacks for sure, let alone the 6 minutes reload time! While I have already clarified on my previous post how the Airborne airstrikes are used much more frequently than that. And despite that the Airborne bombing run airstrike - statistically - deals less damage than the SturmTiger's rocket.. yet, the AB airplanes still don't struggle killing ANY mobile targets, as they are more or less just as effective at the end.

Also, by the way.. it's not impossible to dodge the SturmTiger, if you have some view on the SturmTiger, then u would be clearly able to see when it's aiming.. and therefore you would have enough time to simply move your units away from the targeted zone, I have successfully dodged it many times.


However, with that being said... I actually don't mind lowering the range of the SturmTiger to 120 (from 200) but then it should no longer require view in order to shoot.. as it would be able to shoot just anywhere as long as in range! Though, I don't really think that any changes are necessary after all.

[idliketoplaybetter]

I still dont get why u cant understand the salt here.

V1 was never used. Many reasons.

Now its changed for even pricier form of itself. Somehow became used.

(i like the way here, on forum, life goes. }

People start on topic - almost right on dev's say what's what - answer is being left behind - people multiply "possible" issues regarding opened topic - more words - dev's come back and basically repeat their answers )

Constructive posts are always welcome.

I've said more of my thoughts regarding all there above. Not sure if there is a place to discuss anything aside of what is in current ingame situation, though again, i agree to Whawks by basically most points.

(and i basically said what he said few posts above).

If we ever get to a point, for possible Doctrine reworking - id say more.

Yet i would even buff it with MP price or/and CP price.

[Warhawks97]

I think the real hypocrisy here is when some players complain about the SturmTiger being a self-propelled nuke, but at the same time.. the same players are totally fine with the AB airstrike "nukes" on the other hand... That's the real hypocrisy right there I guess!

When the rocket shell is in the air... it kills. When a bomber comes its not sure if it actually kills something or not.

And I don't want somebody coming up telling me "but the SturmTiger has no drawbacks compared to Airborne airstrikes" because clearly there are drawbacks for sure, let alone the 6 minutes reload time!

And this is also a problem. This combined with other factors makes this unit just nasty. What its supposed to do: nuking defenses. It doesnt do that bc you can kill an emplacment or other trash just every 6 mins. Walking stuka, nebler VT or simple firestorm doing the job as well, just a lot more frequently.

A nuke you can use every 6 mins is something you use of "trolling". Its just a unit for making some nasty jokes on your opponent. Its from little tactical usage except for trolling kind of gameplay. It gives the user a huge dirty smile, the guy who gets hit a rage.

I would simply wish to get down from these extrems. Less extrem damage against tanks at the edge of the explosion (and beyond the visual one). less sudden strike and more close support fortification buster. Improved Stupa kind of thing.
A shot every 3 mins or so.

A Nuke which you can use just once or twice in a game wont be used against silly emplacments and defenses. Its kind of an "ace card" which you play against enemie tanks such as SP or tank formations. You spare it for the right moment to kill the right unit and that will be everything but defenses such as an emplacment (which is more easily killed usually by neblers, stuka etc).

Also, by the way.. it's not impossible to dodge the SturmTiger, if you have some view on the SturmTiger, then u would be clearly able to see when it's aiming.. and therefore you would have enough time to simply move your units away from the targeted zone, I have successfully dodged it many times.

when you have a recon deep inside the enemie territory, yes. But when you are not aware they have one it simply hits you. And since the most valuable targets are not the fastest one (churchills, sp) its hard to dogde it. I´ve never managed to fail with this thing. Simply bc of the massive blast area. If you use it against an M20... well, your problem then.

However, with that being said... I actually don't mind lowering the range of the SturmTiger to 120 (from 200) but then it should no longer require view in order to shoot.. as it would be able to shoot just anywhere as long as in range! Though, I don't really think that any changes are necessary after all.

less extrem damage at the outer circles of the explosion. However it would still deal enough damage there to take out inf and emplacments. And also reduced reload time and 120 range but no more view required on the target location.

[Krieger Blitzer]

A nuke you can use every 6 mins is something you use of "trolling". Its just a unit for making some nasty jokes on your opponent. Its from little tactical usage except for trolling kind of gameplay. It gives the user a huge dirty smile, the guy who gets hit a rage.

Hmm, I just think the so called "huge dirty smile" is also the case when you mange to smash a KT as well as a Panther with an airstrike... I can remember several games when I was actually losing the game once the opponents deployed such super heavy tanks.. as I actually had no counter whatsoever on the ground.. but then with just 2 clicks... The game tide was completely turned to my favor after sweeping the floor with a single US airstrike, 1 KingTiger and a Tiger1 in addition to a vet.3 Storm squad were all nothing but poor victims. And I was like "Muhahaha" after achieving that!

[Warhawks97]

When hitting targets with bombs you are praying untill they hit and target is killed and not perhaps just crit damaged (same with long tom were i also often just badly crit damaged the enemie).

Its just a huge relief and calming your nervs down when you kill a panther with your AB´s. Simply bc its one of a few things you have to really kill it. But even then, if he moves the bombs will fail.


As Terror, when i smashed 3 tanks from CW RE and later pershing and shermans at once, it was more like.... idk. I mean i had a heavy AT gun, schreck squads and was about to unlock panthers etc. I also had a walking stuka as back up unit. So the whole reason is a different. As ab i know: if bombs wont kill it i will have hard times to get rid of that panther and with some luck it destroyes my entire army. I havent had the feeling with terror. It was just "the most funniest way".

[Tor]

WH bad overall, all play PE, especially good players.
I always play terror and stil don't have good shot with sturmtiger, only vs complete noobs.
Warhawk, can we watch this replay?

Devs nerf op hetzer, its like L70 with lower cost, mg and flank speed.
Why its have armor vs bazookas? with zimmerit unstoppable by infantry, with camo just like L70 vs everything except SP.

[Redgaarden]

I think the real hypocrisy here is when some players complain about the SturmTiger being a self-propelled nuke, but at the same time.. the same players are totally fine with the AB airstrike "nukes" on the other hand... That's the real hypocrisy right there I guess!

I'm not a big fan of AB bomb patrol/run. But as Warhawks said.

. So the whole reason is a different. As ab i know: if bombs wont kill it i will have hard times to get rid of that panther and with some luck it destroyes my entire army. I havent had the feeling with terror. It was just "the most funniest way".

The ab bombs are more of a necessity. But when the best you can do is, running 10 bazookas that might not even kill it, at a price that could even exceed the cost of a single panther. Then it becomes kinda hard at times indeed. But the fact when your teammates has 17pounders and strong tanks, that destory everything in the axis way, and no big cats to take care of these British tanks. The bomb runs become kinda broken.
But it's a need, since I have seen so many games are lost, just because they miss one time after hitting five times before.

Devs nerf op hetzer, its like L70 with lower cost, mg and flank speed.
Why its have armor vs bazookas? with zimmerit unstoppable by infantry, with camo just like L70 vs everything except SP.

Fuck zimmerit. And make hetzers easier to hit. It's understandable that tank destoryers destroy tanks. But they really put the rest of us to ashame.

[Warhawks97]

Fuck zimmerit. And make hetzers easier to hit. It's understandable that tank destoryers destroy tanks. But they really put the rest of us to ashame.

Well, they are slightly harder to hit than normal tanks. But nothing "OP" for a unit of a size of the hetzer. It has low HP as well.
More funny is that this thing has weaker armor (or easier penetrated by 76 guns) as the tank IV H/J. Which is funny since hetzers armor was more advanced than those of tank IV´s giving it almost tiger like resistence on the upper hull. However the lower part was weak indeed.

Flank speed, well, idk why it even has it.

What bugs me most here is how extremley powerfull it is against stuff like jumbos when shooting from ambush. Even without AP.

The ab bombs are more of a necessity. But when the best you can do is, running 10 bazookas that might not even kill it, at a price that could even exceed the cost of a single panther. Then it becomes kinda hard at times indeed. But the fact when your teammates has 17pounders and strong tanks, that destory everything in the axis way, and no big cats to take care of these British tanks. The bomb runs become kinda broken.

Same the other way arround. But terror doc does not really lack tank bashing units. And when your mates have nashorns and stuff you dont even need own AT, at least as long as you just camp and bomb.
AB, as said, needs the bombs to deal with heavy stuff.