Question on Panzerknacker

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sgtToni95
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Question on Panzerknacker

Postby sgtToni95 » 12 Sep 2017, 14:16

Played a game and noticed something i never noticed before: Panzerknacker planes actually destroyed my vehicles way far from the targeted bombing area.
To be more precize, they destroyed AA vehicles even when they were too far away to be directly spotted by any unit and from patrol area.

Map was cherburg, henscel was pretty surely aimed at tanks on the mid line of the map, and killed 1 m16 that was way in the back on the corner of the map near the bases, and 1 that was half way between that and midline.

My question is, does panzerknacker kill/target vehicles along all the planes path or only in the "circled" area? Does it aim only at AA or at every vehicle? I never noticed it killing stuff on its path, so i was surprised and this is why i'm asking. And i actually thought it didn't since it could basically kill all vehicles on the map (limited of course to flying trajectories).

thanks in advance

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Warhawks97
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Re: Question on Panzerknacker

Postby Warhawks97 » 12 Sep 2017, 14:18

Dude. thats what i said i the other thread (got probably overseen by all that hate between to guys).

It attacks everything in its flight path including ambushed tanks and even AT guns.

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sgtToni95
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Re: Question on Panzerknacker

Postby sgtToni95 » 12 Sep 2017, 14:20

Lol, sorry. Does US patrol do that too?

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MarKr
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Re: Question on Panzerknacker

Postby MarKr » 12 Sep 2017, 15:30

Henschels work differently than US patrol. Henschels actually aim at targets in their cone of fire and so if there is a viable target on their flight path they will attack it no matter how far from the target zone it is. The target zone checks if there are viable targets and if there are, a plane is spawned. If in the AoE are no targets (or you lose vision there), planes are not spawned. Henschels also need to see the targets on their flight path, so if the plane passes over your units that provide vision, it can attack. If it flies through FoW and only spots some unit in last moment, the unit will not get attacked, or maybe just one shot will be fired before it gets into FoW again or before it gets out of cone of fire.

US patrol works the way that it also checks for targets in AoE but once the target is acquired, the planes drop bombs/straffe at given position - they do not attack units, but position on the ground.
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sgtToni95
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Re: Question on Panzerknacker

Postby sgtToni95 » 12 Sep 2017, 16:06

So i guess it shoots every AA on its path since it starts shooting and get spotted pretty much as soon as plane spawns?

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Re: Question on Panzerknacker

Postby Tiger1996 » 12 Sep 2017, 16:10

I have always considered the Luft Panzerknacker patrol planes to be more like flying Pak40 75mm cannons, and the Airborne patrol planes to be some sort of flying SturmTigers, just in addition to machine guns in order to exclusively wipe out infantry too... Even though the bombs are already enough to kill anything that moves on the ground.. including infantry as well.

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Re: Question on Panzerknacker

Postby sgtToni95 » 12 Sep 2017, 16:25

:D Thanks for your opinion Tiger

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Re: Question on Panzerknacker

Postby MarKr » 12 Sep 2017, 16:58

sgtToni95 wrote:So i guess it shoots every AA on its path since it starts shooting and get spotted pretty much as soon as plane spawns?

No. Henschels have also maximum range, while AA units shooting at planes ignore range restrictions. Also there is quite limited cone of fire. So if you look at the picture, the AA "1" will shoot at Henschel but Henschel will not shoot at it, because (even though in range) it is outside of its cone of fire. It will also not shoot at AA "3" because it would be in cone of fire but it is not in range (yet). It will though start shooting at AA "2" though. But I am not sure if it AAs revealed by shooting count as "not in FoW" so maybe the Henschel will not shoot even at AA "2" until the Henschel itself gets close enough to reveal it in FoW. AA"4" will most likely not bet targetted either because it will be out of cone of fire (but same as other AAs, it will shoot at Henschel as soon as it enters map).

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sgtToni95
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Re: Question on Panzerknacker

Postby sgtToni95 » 12 Sep 2017, 17:18

So it would be preferable not to closely pair AA units with tanks, but instead keep them around. Thanks for clarifications.

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MarKr
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Re: Question on Panzerknacker

Postby MarKr » 12 Sep 2017, 17:36

Yes. Although each weapon has targetting priorities - if there are multiple possible targets in range, it focuses on the target of highest priority and M16/M15A1/Crusader have lower priority than e.g. Shermans, Churchills, Pershings etc. so even if clustered, the plane should target other things.

But Henschels also fire in a way that is similar to straffing runs - they shoot several shots "blindly" at the position in the AoE where was the unit against which the plane was sent - these shots usually don't hit anything because there is few of them per plane and they don't target anything specific, only ground, but if you cluster units together, the chance that these "blind" shots hit something goes up.
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Warhawks97
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Re: Question on Panzerknacker

Postby Warhawks97 » 12 Sep 2017, 23:11

The max fireing range is new to me but thx for clarrifying it.

And how does it come that it kills hidden TD and AA guns? Not just single time but one plane hit an ambushed 17 pdr twice and destroying it.

And what makes me wonder more: Why is it cheaper than ab patrole?


And since it targets so many targets pontenially the limit of M15A1 is even more unjustified.

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Re: Question on Panzerknacker

Postby MarKr » 13 Sep 2017, 00:43

Not sure about the attacking of hidden units...first thought was that Henschels have camo detection but they don't so it needs to be something else. But I've never seen it in any replay or my test games, only once Henschel destroyed camoed M18 but it was because it was shot down and crashed on top of the camoed TD, which doesn't really count as "intentional attack" :D
Are you sure the hidden unit wasn't revealed by something?

As for the Henschel attacking AT guns, emplacements and such...after a quick look it seems some values are set wrong. Will have a look at it.
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Warhawks97
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Re: Question on Panzerknacker

Postby Warhawks97 » 13 Sep 2017, 00:53

That 17 pdr was hidden actually. It got hit by first plane and i thought "random luck shot". But then it got hit again a few planes later and destroyed. That was actually new to me as well... double luck? oO.

What exactly is set wrong?

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Re: Question on Panzerknacker

Postby Panzer-Lehr-Division » 13 Sep 2017, 08:46

Can't agree it doesn't shoot Emplacement it does shoot at gun's but that's fine imo
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Warhawks97
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Re: Question on Panzerknacker

Postby Warhawks97 » 13 Sep 2017, 13:00

We are not talking on what it shoots intentionally. We talk about what the units hits and aims when it comes in (bc tanks are in target area). Its not ok that it kills hidden AT guns that are in the flight path. (It would not even be OK if the airplane comes in bc an unhidden AT gun is in the target location).

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Re: Question on Panzerknacker

Postby Tiger1996 » 13 Sep 2017, 15:11

Warhawks97 wrote:We are not talking on what it shoots intentionally. We talk about what the units hits and aims when it comes in (bc tanks are in target area). Its not ok that it kills hidden AT guns that are in the flight path. (It would not even be OK if the airplane comes in bc an unhidden AT gun is in the target location).

I think the Airborne patrol planes also target hidden units, though... I am not so sure to be honest; So I still might be wrong.


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