Mass production in BK

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Warhawks97
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Mass production in BK

Postby Warhawks97 » 07 Sep 2017, 15:59

This is a subject that makes me thinking many times. As for myself, Mass-production upgrades played a cruical role in my personal gameplay. I usually only played docs that have some sort of such upgrades and often i went straight for it. No matter if it was Armor doc, inf doc, BK doc for the tank IV spam (D and J) or TH doc (early cheap hetzer spam). Usually i thought that this have been the things that carried me to the final win. In case of BK doc it had been true for a while. But i am unsure if really this led to a victory at the end or my teammates which actually killed the enemie using my spam just as meatshields and spotting. From my point of view at the moment, i do belive that the mass productions in BK are more harmfull than usefull. I will explain why:

Gameplay reason:
1. When i played BK, armor or Inf doc i went often very quickly or instant for the mass productions. It somehow helped me to win the one or other game but in review i think that other unlock decisions and units would have made it better. Like going quicker for stormtroopers than spamming Tank IV´s against whatever threat occured, even when my own sanity told me "dont build it now" i did build the unit bc it was so... do you know the moment when you know you dont need something but still buy it bc its so cheap? It made me feeling that it helps but at the end it didnt.
For inf doc i tested new unlock decisions like arty/rangers/jumbo/emplacments first to prevent that i start spamming stuff that wont help, regardless in what numbers. With armor doc it was pretty much the same. Earlier Jackson could have prevented situations that i tried to solve with easy eight spam.
Inexperienced players may trap into this "i get units so cheap, i cant lose the game" trap that they never start realizing further potentials of a doctrine

2. Many more experienced Players arent going for "spamming pointless stuff" anymore against "whatever i face". This makes the spam upgrades even more quesitonable.

3. The BK doc tank IV mass prod is one that i consider as one that can potentially make a game ending quick. But just for a rather short time before its usefullness ends.

4. For TH doc the cost drops are not from such a vital importance since their TD´s doing well in either way. There is often no real need to "spam even more" since a single tank can create havoc already.

5. For inf doc the spam can become quite micro intense. On top of that medic trucks can provide you already with cheap rifles on the long hand. Inf doc would do better with better rangers rather than having rangers that are ineffective untill they receive the mass prod upgrade.

6. Armor doc a spam never solved a problem. Often a mix of units like M20, scott, single sherman and jacks did the job rather than one unit type spam. On top of that, if you really go into attack, the new Allied war machine ability can give you the numerical edge along with supply yard and the like.

7. Logic of spam: You lose more units (coz you spam weak units that then need micro) and thus enemie gets vet and you need even more units to win. Spam often worsen the situation for the spammer. A Vicious cycle.


The unit balance:

Here is another major concern. How effective shall a unit be? What unit cost should be used as reference for the performence. A quick list:

1. Rangers (and rifles): They are often considered as cost effective only after mass prod upgrade. Over the time, their weapons got buffed, at the same time their cost drop reduced from once 360 down to 270 MP to currently 360 down to 315. Rifles had a simiiar development. So what are the actual cost at which we base the units power? As for US it seems that the mass prod cost are used as measurment. That makes the mass prod upgrade even more questionable. Is it a cost efficency boost or necessary to be cost effective?.

2. The shermans: Same issue as with rangers. When a mass prod upgrade is necessary to make some good use of a unit, whats the point of the doctrinal mass prod upgrade then? How often did we hear "Omg a 300 MP tank killed my 800 MP tank!" ? Or "two e8 easily kill a tiger". I do believe that nobody knows that the current cost of e8 are 500 MP and 70 fuel (1000 and 140 it they are two) and thus that "2 vs 1" thing wouldnt be reason to cry. But we all see only a 365 MP tank.

3. Tank IV: In this particular case we take a look at the J. It ranges from 550 MP and 60 fuel to 380 and 30 fuel. What is that? A sheep in wolfs clothes? Or a wolf in sheep clothes? In TH doc it cost 550/60. In BK doc it cost 410/45 and then (new patch) 380/30 after mass production.
How to set its performence correctly?? Well, yeah, different doc etcs. But still.

4. Tank Hunters. A single one holds off pretty much any tank assault attempt. On top the cost reduction for most TD are not so significant and they do not undeperform for their basic cost.


Realistic perspective:

1. Shermans: Shermans were build in numbers, but distributed along all forces. It was the backbone fighting machine of all armed land forces and not just "massed up" in tank divisions. That would mean for BK that we wouldnt have one sherman spam doc and instead having the sherman of a decent fighting machine among all allied doctrines. Armor doc would just be more focused on armor due to the presence of pershings and indirect boosts of shermans such as veterancy boosts, tank commander abilties, sandbags and abilties like war machine that helps to replace armored losses quicker than other docs. Nontheless, all docs would have effective shermans.

2. Tank IV: The J version was the easiest most simplified Tank IV version. How can it become cheaper twice? The Th doc tank IV J is 45% more expensive than the cheapest BK one. We could speak of total different units.

3. Tankhunters: Again the most simplified type of tank by removing the turret: How to make it even cheaper?

4. Rangers: Its new that supposed elite units got mass produced in ww2.



Cost ratio and balance to other units of the same army:

As with the example given above how to balance it with other units the is also the question how to balance it within the own army. Best example here sherman and stuart tank. The fact that the sherman becomes the cheapest vehicle makes vehicles of a similiar role questionable.



What we could do:
Instead of "Hard mass production" style by reducing the the direct cost of a unit i would prefer some sort of indirect mass production as we did it in TH doc and armor doc now (ammo and gunsight upgrades, ammo upgrade for shermans) or by boosting a certain units that are supposed to be core in the doctrine. Also direct buffs and general cost adjustments

1. Tank IV J: Basic cost could be 410 and 55-60 fuel.
- BK doc Tank IV´s: Instead of mass prod upgrade we could give an upgrade that provides all tank IV´s (except ostwind) and Stugs with vet 1. Additionally to the D model, the E (or F1) can be added to the armor factory.

2. Tank hunter doc: The upgrade could be turned into increased production speed of TD. But they are being build quite fast already. Another option as unlock can be that all Grens and heavy assault grens receive additionally Panzerfausts (in addition to AT nades) and an reduced cooldown on AT nades (or throwing two at once)

3. Armor doc: Increased production speed of shermans or simply adding the Jumbo with 75 mm gun that is unlocked before calli sherman.

4. Inf doc: Upgrading the Rifle squads instead making them super cheap. They would be either vet 1 or receive an upgrade that makes them gain vet faster. Plus Rifle grenades would either be generally WSC upgrade that upgrades all rifle squads OR with this upgrade all inf doc rifles would get the rifle nade upgrades that no longer take a weapon slot. Additionally to these two boosts every Rifle squad could purchase Bazookas for 45 ammo affected also by the M6A3C upgrade of the wsc.
Rifles would become a core force by not just spamming them over the players micro limit and instead valuable versatile tools. Ranger squads would become elites and limited to inf doc and also limited to 3 squads (+ cqc and those of the truck).
Rifles would be a core tool and supported by rangers.


Sorry long post. But thats my thoughts about the mass production in BK and the many problem it causes. Pls read carefully and think about it.

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