Camo

[Redgaarden]

Quick question. Does coming out from camo increase dmg?

[MarKr]

Quick answer. No.

[sgtToni95]

"Does stack if used more than once"

[MarKr]

What do you mean?

[sgtToni95]

was a joke... if such a thing stacked whenever used, people would spend all the time toggling on and off camo ability to get insane damage increases

[Redgaarden]

I thought you meant that you would never come out of camo. Since I seen paks hit my tanks twice and not get revealed. Though I dont really know how the camo works exactly.

[MarKr]

For some units camo allows to fire several shots (usually 2 - after 1st shot they remain camoed, after they fire second shot they reveal iirc)without being revealed. I think it works on PaKs, maybe some tank hunters have that too, I am not sure now.

[idliketoplaybetter]

Markr,hello
While u on this topic, could u tell me if there is difference in "rate of fire" between camoed units and uncamoed?
Like, at vCoh, i remember Pak38 was shooting and moving faster when uncamoed, but in camo mod however, it was able to shoot without being revealed with lower rate of fire instead.So im wondering, if there is anything like at the mod.

[MarKr]

I don't think there is anything like that, it only makes the unit invisible but gives no modifiers to any combat stats

[Warhawks97]

I don't think there is anything like that, it only makes the unit invisible but gives no modifiers to any combat stats

ehm? what? About what units do we talk?

TD´s for example have range boost, reload boost (for the next shot) and also first strike bonuses. AT guns do not reload faster, they do have only first strike bonuses if i am correct here (pen, damage, accuracy). Not sure.

IIrc axis tds had as first strike bonuses an accuracy boost while allied do (or did) not have it. Thats were compplains about allied TD ambush accuracy came from. Devs simply increased their basic accuracy (at least M10, M18) which then get Panther accuracy stats.

Thats the way it was at least. Havent checked the current stats. (Too lazzy atm and not the time).


@red: AT guns usually shoot twice from ambush. Axis TD´s also except the Nashorn. Allied TD´s have one ambushed shot but in return can activate flank speed before making second shot (of they stay they gain the reload speed buff for the second shot of what i observed and as i think their ability is working).

[Redgaarden]

TD´s for example have range boost, reload boost (for the next shot) and also first strike bonuses.

What do you get from first strike? I remember vcoh where 50mm pak had 100% pen chance and alot dmg first strike but haven't they removed it in bk? That would actually explain a lot to me.

Devs simply increased their basic accuracy (at least M10, M18)

Still feels like M10 can't hit when out of camo. Which isn't a big deal.

I don't think there is anything like that, it only makes the unit invisible but gives no modifiers to any combat stats

I think ambush camo gives same modifiers as stationary firing mode 10+ range 20%reload. And Warhawks said something about first strike modifiers.

[Warhawks97]

M10 achilles:

abilities\ambush_camo_timed_m10_tankhunter_commonwealth.lua

Boosts:

Reload speed modifier:
x0.75
sight radius modifier:
+15
received accuracy:
x0.75
Range:
+5

As long as active and you start moving: 1.5 speed modifier (flank speed)

First strike action:
Penetration modifier:
x2

damage modifier:
x1.5


M36 Jackson:
abilities\ambush_camo_timed_m36_tankhunter.lua

Boosts:
same BUT no range increase and no flank speed (its the only TD having no range boost in ambush and the only allied without flank speed).

First strike bonuses (until last few patches ago the Jacks had no first strike bonuses unlike others thus being worst camo Td of all in terms of cost efficiency. And generally worse in power than british M10.)

Now it has
penetration modifier: 1.5
damage: 1,25

Due to the fact that british AP increases the damage while 90 mm decreases the damage the M10 achilles had comprable or even better damage stats when shooting from camo. Too lazzy to check it again. But if you really ask for it i can give you exact numbers.


Jagdpanther:
abilities\camouflage_toggled_jagdpanther.lua

Boosts:
Sight radius:
+15

reload modifier:
x0.75 multiplier

Range:
+10

First strike bonuses:
Penetration:
x2 multiplier

damage modifier:
x1.5

accuracy modifier:
x1.25


I listed those three to give you a feeling how they work. Also to indirectly show you that the M36 has the worst boosts. That he has a big gun does not justifiy it since Jagdpanther has the best gun in game and still get the same boosts as the others.

Also the differences between allied and axis.

Allied can quickly set up an ambush in newly gained areas or even enemie territory, cause casaulties and escape by their own.

Axis are more like a wall. They can shoot up 1-2 tanks from ambush (and usually a third when shooting not from ambush, Jagdpanther oneshots anyway). Their armor allows it to hold the line even longer. But they arent that mobile. However, Jagdpanther has approx the speed of an easy eight. So after successfull ambush he can go into the offensive and killing what remains and has a basic range of 65 already.

The Jagdpanzer IV are slow but excellent defenders. The PE IV/70 is prime example. Low speed but low received accuracy, very good armor and strong gun. Also quite cheap.


Interesting are stanard reload times:

Allied TD: 4,2 sec, Jackson as exception 7 seconds.

Axis usually 4.5-5.5 sec, exception JP IV with panther gun with 7 sec.

[MarKr]

Yes, Hawks is right, I forgot about the first shot boosts, they are applied elsewhere...

[Redgaarden]

Does revealing cancel out first strike boost?

And I didn't know allied td had such fast reload when sherman 76 has 6-7 sec.

But yeah first strike boost seem the same as vcoh for the most part. So basically 88 does more dmg after camo than jagdtiger. That explains why my pershing ace gets killed in 1 hit.

[Warhawks97]

Does revealing cancel out first strike boost?

And I didn't know allied td had such fast reload when sherman 76 has 6-7 sec.

The guys inside Shermans are old men. 70-100 years old at least.

Joke aside and off-topic:

Axis generally load fast. 4.5-5.5 seconds. Even the Elephant.

Tigers got 6 seconds. Panther guns are slow. Those need 7 seconds. All tanks with that long 75 mm L/70 guns (Panther, JP IV/A and V/70) need 7 seconds.

Allied TD are pretty fast with their 4.2 sec. With vets and ambush you can turn it into a machine canon almost. The US AT gun has iirc 7 seconds. That was one reason i often prefered the m10 over AT guns. Just as cheap (inf doc and AB needs no fuel anyway), fast and with commanders and vet you got nice boosts.


Firefly needs also 6 seconds. But with command tank, commander and vet and stationary mode you can also make it shooting pretty fast. Almost excellent to counter a group of axis mediums, esspecially when you can trap them somehow.

Yes, Hawks is right, I forgot about the first shot boosts, they are applied elsewhere...

Yes... in the ebps files. Camouflage or something and then submenu.


Edit: I edited the previous post. Forgot the first strike accuray bonus for Jagdpanther (or axis td in general get that).

[Redgaarden]

Allied TD are pretty fast with their 4.2 sec. With vets and ambush you can turn it into a machine canon almost. The US AT gun has iirc 7 seconds. That was one reason i often prefered the m10 over AT guns. Just as cheap (inf doc and AB needs no fuel anyway), fast and with commanders and vet you got nice boosts.

I have a love hate relationship with m10. I kinda only want them as armor doc since you can get alot more hp for them so they dont die in 1 hit. But I also like the atg because it has higher penetration than the m10 and doesn't die in 1 hit against panther.

Think you could flank speed in front of panther ap ammo and shoot it twice before pantehr get's it 2nd shot in?

[sgtToni95]

So does bulldozer upgrade give additional HPs? Or you're talking about white health bar?

[Redgaarden]

So does bulldozer upgrade give additional HPs? Or you're talking about white health bar?

Bulldozer and sandbag upgrade (Not sidebags) both give 10% more maximum health. And there is he overrepair too.
All doctrines can get bulldozer for m10 but it overrites hold fire with lower bulldozer.